Canopy by Hilton (née Haymarket Hotel) | Blackstone St | Parcel 9 | Greenway

cjbski

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This is also the appropriate scale for that Boston City lot on Cross St @ Fulton St. -- it needs to be developed as a decent gateway to the North End
perhaps just a bit taller say 11 or 12 stories in the corner furthest from the park and closest to Fulton & Cross corner

View attachment 10059
We REALLY need the same on this lot. What a waste of a killer location. Put that parking underground if they must keep it.
 

Bananarama

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This is also the appropriate scale for that Boston City lot on Cross St @ Fulton St. -- it needs to be developed as a decent gateway to the North End
perhaps just a bit taller say 11 or 12 stories in the corner furthest from the park and closest to Fulton & Cross corner
Oh shoot, is it too late for worst empty parcels nominations?

THAT is a serious contender. Such a horrible disjoint when walking north-south along the greenway to/from the North End.
 

estyle

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Mostly im a yimby. Sometimes i'm a nimby. Haymarket has a lot of nice memories for me. And it kinda gave a feeling of permanence/continuity because it had a lot of nice memories for my mom too. (ditto filenes basement.) This project makes me sad . . . I know haymarket will still be there . . . in some part . . . admittedly havent been there lately . . . maybe its the same . . .
I think there are also some supports for the market in the new building--maybe trash/storage space and toilets?
 

Poolio

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We've seen some beautiful examples brick veneer done well lately. Lovejoy Wharf, 45 Wareham, Whitney Hotel, and the Quinn are all stand-outs, and the Henry is pretty decent as well. I think brick was the right choice here, but too bad they couldn't have achieved something of similar quality.

It's super early still though, maybe it will come together...
 

JeffDowntown

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Real brick would seem appropriate for this location.
I don't think anyone is building, commercially, with real brick today. The closest you will get is a quality thin brick veneer. (You might see real brick on a custom high end residential project.)
 

Scott

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Real brick should be used for this parcel because of its prominent location. You can actually tell the difference; it just doesn't feel as strong or permanent just like pergo isn't hard wood. However real brick or brick veneer should never be used out of scale. Nothing larger than this or a mill. One Back Bay is the worst offender.
 

found5dollar

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Real brick should be used for this parcel because of its prominent location. You can actually tell the difference; it just doesn't feel as strong or permanent just like pergo isn't hard wood. However real brick or brick veneer should never be used out of scale. Nothing larger than this or a mill. One Back Bay is the worst offender.
What about the Monadnock Building? Do you consider that out of scale or an engineering marvel?
 

bigpicture7

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Do we actually know this isn't real brick, packaged into a modular pre-fab'd facade system? I have seen numerous projects use such a system for the majority of the facade, with hand-laid brick installed by masons at the corners and difficult areas. Such systems that I've observed personally have had full-thickness bricks in each pre-fab module.

These pictures make it very difficult to tell. Zooming way in, I agree it seems like the bricks could be thinner than a standard brick. However, with these pre-fab systems, I believe sometimes it is actually a mix, with veneer used for the wide expanses and full bricks used for some detail work.

In any case, if it is indeed a hybrid system with full and veneer bricks, and that real masons will be installing the corner features and detailing with real brick to tie-in/integrate the pre-fab panels, then I am not worried at all. Proper craftsmanship for that approach can turn out great.
 

Scott

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What about the Monadnock Building? Do you consider that out of scale or an engineering marvel?
That's a peculiar example of brick being used creatively on a large building to great effect. There are no examples here IMHO
 

chmeeee

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That's a peculiar example of brick being used creatively on a large building to great effect. There are no examples here IMHO
There's always the uncreative example of the UMass Amherst Library.
 

JeffDowntown

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Bricklayers built on Mission Hill when it was a bad neighborhood. Just saying
I am aware of the affordable ownership units on Fisher Ave, for example. Those are from the late 1980's. My understanding is more recent construction trends (post 2008 recession) strongly go against laid brickwork. (Not saying zero, just very little.)
 

bigpicture7

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I am aware of the affordable ownership units on Fisher Ave, for example. Those are from the late 1980's. My understanding is more recent construction trends (post 2008 recession) strongly go against laid brickwork. (Not saying zero, just very little.)
It's tempting to blame the shift entirely on developers cheaping-out (which, of course, is part of it), but there have also been changes in technology over time (as mentioned above), such as the panelized modular brick facade systems that didn't exist at the time of some of the older developments listed. How could folks be so sure what solution would have been chosen then, had the newer alternatives existed? Also, there are probably economies of scale associated with the modern panelized solutions, whereas it makes sense to employ those if the building is above a certain size, but does not for very small buildings.

At risk of being too redundant on this thread, I have physically seen full-size individual bricks being hand-laid at numerous developments that also used modular solutions to some extent in concert, such as at Prism apartments in Cambridge. There's a ton of hand-laid brick there, integral with more efficient methods.

At aB, we have a tendency to critique cheap-seeming building systems/materials as we observe them in their incomplete state, whereas the real critique should be the finished product, which depends as much on implementation and craft as category of material/system chosen. For instance, not every 5-on-1 building is created equal, but aB always craps on those. You can spend a ton of money on materials and do a crap job with implementation and it's not any better than cheap materials.
 

JeffDowntown

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It's tempting to blame the shift entirely on developers cheaping-out (which, of course, is part of it), but there have also been changes in technology over time (as mentioned above), such as the panelized modular brick facade systems that didn't exist at the time of some of the older developments listed. How could folks be so sure what solution would have been chosen then, had the newer alternatives existed? Also, there are probably economies of scale associated with the modern panelized solutions, whereas it makes sense to employ those if the building is above a certain size, but does not for very small buildings.

At risk of being too redundant on this thread, I have physically seen full-size individual bricks being hand-laid at numerous developments that also used modular solutions to some extent in concert, such as at Prism apartments in Cambridge. There's a ton of hand-laid brick there, integral with more efficient methods.

At aB, we have a tendency to critique cheap-seeming building systems/materials as we observe them in their incomplete state, whereas the real critique should be the finished product, which depends as much on implementation and craft as category of material/system chosen. For instance, not every 5-on-1 building is created equal, but aB always craps on those. You can spend a ton of money on materials and do a crap job with implementation and it's not any better than cheap materials.
I think you have to do some laid brickwork as finishing details around the panelized systems to get the quality product we tend to like. At very least you have to do some individual placement of thin brick on blank panel in addition the the larger pre-fab panels.
 

stick n move

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Im gonna call it right now, its gonna look just fine. If you zoom in on some of the pics the brick doesnt look bad at all. Lets wait a little bit before declaring this a dud, you may just get surprised, well see.
 

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