Canopy by Hilton (née Haymarket Hotel) | Blackstone St | Parcel 9 | Greenway

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

On the potentially negative side. It puts "actual" residents in an area to complain about new high rises such as the Aquarium tower and the Congress St. Garage towers. Hopefully they get approved before this thing gets built.

Just playing devil's advocate/pessimist (which I'm not) to stir the pot.

If anyone is going to come out against new high rises in the area it is going to be the North End residents who a stone's throw away from this new development. I'm not sure adding in an additional 78 units is going to make much difference.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

A small infill development that will have a huge impact on the Greenway street wall and the Haymarket experience. My only concern is that the area left for the Haymarket may be a bit too small. It is already cramped into the space given, a wonder if there are plans to expand Haymarket out to the Greenway.

I like it cramped. It needs a defined space. Having it spread out on the Greenway would destroy its character as a harried, chaotic, truly Old World urban spectacle.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Finance questions delay Parcel 9 decision
Boston Business Journal

The development of Parcel 9 in the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway suffered another delay Wednesday when a top state transportation official sought more time to evaluate proposals before endorsing any particular one.

The patch of land in Boston?s North End has been caught in limbo as state agencies reorganized and various parties, including backers of a Boston Museum, bid to build on it.

Transportation Secretary Jeffrey Mullan, in explaining why the matter was not on the official agenda of the state Department of Transportation board, said he wants his staff to take a fresh look at the financial proposals and financing plans for each idea. He said he then will make a recommendation to the board.

?I have become concerned about the financial viability of the proposals. The permitting requirements of the project, particularly in the face of the vocal opposition we have heard, cause me to question the willingness of an investment team to get behind the project at this time,? Mullan said in comments to the board Wednesday.

?Uncertainty in this economic environment is simply not a good thing.?

Even taken in its best light, more time will be added to the process, time that will delay the creation of short- and long-term jobs and the infusion of new activity to the area, Mullan said.

?I am also mindful that, due in part to the creation of MassDOT and the transfer of this project from the former Turnpike Authority to this organization, a significant amount of time has already passed since the proposals were first formulated and submitted for evaluation,? Mullan said.

Doesn't make much sense. The proposal everyone supported (not the Boston Museum) has their funding in order. This is highly suspect. Why would the DOT hold off on... wait, I forgot. Ex-DOT chairman Frank Keefe is President & CEO of the Boston Museum.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Sounds like the state may be trying to shotgun-marry two of the development teams.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Smells like corruption. Gotta love Massachusetts machine politics.

The Boston Museum plan sounds like a dud for this parcel. Not only does the design suck, but the idea of a "Boston Museum" in general -- especially one devoted to ... what was it? Boston history from 1934 to 1978 or something? -- is also lame. Not likely to draw anyone other than a few schoolgroups and a small share of tourists to the Rose Kennedy Lawn.

If some state bureaucrat emeritus insists on his Beantown history museum because he thinks it's really effin' great or has some financial stake in it, and if the state or Boss Menino want in turn to accommodate him, Louis Boston's Newbury St. premises would be a much better location IMO. Obviously you can't place museums by fiat, but Louis' building needs a tenant, the Boston Museum claims to have some $$, the location is very fitting for a history museum, and was previously the home of the N.E. Museum of Natural History. Besides, my money says Louis' space will become a CVS otherwise... certainly not the greenmarket and much-needed residential that Parcel 9 would otherwise get.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Louis' space will become a CVS

Probably will turn out to be the most accurate prediction of the year.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

That's partly because New York history doesn't "live" the way it does here. Boston tourism is already so heavily concentrated on it. The museum wouldn't add much to the Revolutionary experience, and the history of the rest of the city really wouldn't be nearly as thrilling to most people.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I'd love to see the theme-park'iness of the area diluted a bit, so I was happy to see the residential proposal win way back when. I've always felt that the Boston Museum proposal was just another manufactured attraction for the tourist crowd.

It's sad to see this museum being shoved down our throat here. This sort of back room shenanigans is the stuff of banana republics.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

My understanding, from a very good source, is that the residential proposal is probably going to be killed off. I'm not completely sure on the particulars, but the opposition of the pushcart vendors at the eleventh hour, really hurt the Eastat group.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Their opposition is understandable if they fear that future residential neighbors would want to curtail their activities. I don't think this is a good location for residences.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I don't think this area (i.e., the Greenway) can become a fully functioning part of the city without people actually living there (versus tourists or state workers dominating the area, as at Fanueil Hall and Government Center nearby). And without fully functioning seams connecting neighborhoods, the city's disparate parts will remain unconnected.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

But Ron is correct. Residences here will mean the end of Haymarket. There is no way people are going to pay to live somewhere with that mess outside their front door.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I would totally live above the Haymarket. Tons of people live above the market stalls of Rue Mouffetard in Paris.

These people will know what they're getting into when they buy into the building. If it helps reassure the pushcart vendors, maybe they should be made to sign something to that effect.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I see the concerns about living over this, but as cz notes, it's hardly without precedent for people to live over markets ... after all, most markets are where they are because it's where the people were/are. Most of NYC's greenmarkets are a bit yuppier than Haymarket, but the same concerns exist: they're open on the weekend and get loud early. Yet for the most part they're near/among residential buildings.

Moreover, the "threats" to the market that residential space brings about aren't exactly unique: if you build office space on Parcel 9, the office workers would be as (or potentially more) annoyed with noise on Fridays. If you build the crappy museum, you'd have issues of getting people into the museum on Friday/Saturday ... which would likely be among the museum's busiest days. No matter what Parcel 9 is turned into, the building's users are aware that there's a market below a few days a week, and that they'll have to deal with its charms and downsides alike. As long as Boss Menino is on board, it'd hardly be difficult to guarantee Haymarket's future by forcing the building owners to acknowledge the market's right to exist.

It's note exactly a novel concept to say that many of the problems of American cities come from our insistence since WWII on compartmentalizing different uses in different parts of the city: commercial vs. residential vs. retail vs. entertainment vs. hotels. Mixing these things -- in this case, residential and retail -- may be unusual today, but it's how things were traditionally done, and still are in the relatively livelier cities of Europe.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

There is no way people are going to pay to live somewhere with that mess outside their front door.

Dude, have you walked around that place at night after the market? It smells like a garbage dump.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Yes? That was my point. So...we agree.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Their opposition is understandable if they fear that future residential neighbors would want to curtail their activities. I don't think this is a good location for residences.

I don't think this area (i.e., the Greenway) can become a fully functioning part of the city without people actually living there (versus tourists or state workers dominating the area, as at Fanueil Hall and Government Center nearby). And without fully functioning seams connecting neighborhoods, the city's disparate parts will remain unconnected.

But Ron is correct. Residences here will mean the end of Haymarket. There is no way people are going to pay to live somewhere with that mess outside their front door.

I would totally live above the Haymarket. Tons of people live above the market stalls of Rue Mouffetard in Paris.

These people will know what they're getting into when they buy into the building. If it helps reassure the pushcart vendors, maybe they should be made to sign something to that effect.
Agree with itchy and czsz.

To rue Mouffetard, you can add rue de Buci/Saint-Andre-des-Arts (the most charming in the Latin Quarter), and dozens of others scattered all over Paris and London (Portobello Road, anyone?). Like cz, I'd live there in a heartbeat. Let the (free) market find its customers.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

People will move in. They'll be thinking, "Oh how bad can it be? And such a great location!"

Then after a couple of warm summers, the noise and smell starts to wear on them. "Well, can't they start a little later and close an little sooner?"

Then, "Well, I think does it need to be this big? Maybe we can limit it to smaller number of select vendors."

Finally, "We feel there are better places in the city for this type of market, we are trying to build a neighborhood!"

Should they be ignored? Of course!

Will they? Of course not.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

^^^ Pesimistically 100% correct IMO. Nimbs feel entitled to make demands real fast. They don't except area for what it is, atleast not for long. Soon they act like they own an entire neighborhood and can dictate what occurs in it. And what they dictate is allways that it becomes more quite and tame so they can have the same piece and quite their suburban friends have.
 

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