Charles River Esplanade Given Landmark Status

itchy said:
Shmessy, as much as it pains me to say this on an architecture forum, I have to say that I think you're putting far too much importance into architecture.

Businesses (and the individuals who build them) move to Silicon Valley and New York for many reasons, but the derring-do of their present-day architecture is not one of them.

In New York, for every Torre Verre (the fantastic project designed by Jean Nouvel), there are 150 Sam Chang eyesores -- typically the cheapest, cruddiest, nastiest designs you can imagine, inhabited by a Hampton Inn and the slim, 15-story equivalent of any Hampton Inn you've ever seen off of I-95. Oh, and right now, Torre Verre doesn't appear to be happening any time soon, either.

The stuff going up in New York today is, for the overwhelming most part, atrocious. Really, Boston doesn't get buildings anywhere near as bad as the ones that are sprouting up all over NYC.

As for Silicon Valley, man oh man, San Jose is atrocious! Sure, it's comfy and nice and sunny, but the architecture is nonexistent (other than malls and landscrapers in the park) and it's about as urban as the Green Mountains. The various Silicon Valley outposts are no better.

What those places do have is, well, mojo. In terms of culture, hipness, finance and business, New York is hands-down the alpha-dog city of the US and probably of the world. Thanks to the post-war defence industry in CA and the R&D and computer industry it spawned -- plus a fantastic climate and beautiful natural landscape -- Silicon Valley blossomed into the country's tech capital. The architecture out there is decidedly not urban, down to Google's HQ or the proposed Apple suburban office park-cum-UFO. It draws entrepreneurs because, well, it's full of thriving tech businesses, tech entrepreneurs, and the VC firms that finance them.

I'd like to see better architecture in Boston as much as anyone else, but I don't see that convincing as many grads to stick around as would a more lively bar scene, a few examples of world-beating new tech businesses, or an additional 200,000 people living in Boston and making it a bigger urban area with more stuff (and more people to date) for the recent-grad crowd.
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Actually, my aim had nothing to do with architecture, but with lifestyle and attitude. Ironically, your post is the one focusing on architecture.

Boston, rightfully so, is seen as the world's greatest farm system for talent, but a second tier city when it comes to attitude and lifestyle.

NYC has the can-do attitude and money. To your point about hipness - - there is a reason for that historically. The culture of its citizens ENCOURAGES risk takers and creativity. Boston canibalizes and snarks at it.

Silicon Valley has the climate and lifestyle.

Boston has the greatest built-in advantage in the world when it comes to top universities. Unfortunately, Boston values its police union rules and precinct political culture more than it does its dreamers and risk takers.

Allston/Brighton should be throwing PARADES welcoming Harvard - - in any other state of the union you would see decrepit places like that falling over themselves.

Introducing a bit of whimsy onto the Esplanade (where is there a better place for whimsy?) wouldn't hurt a soul. NYC has the gondola over the East River to Brooklyn.

Boston could use some more of that and fewer red brick Moakley Courthouses.

I fully propose celebrating and preserving our 18th, 19th and early 20th century architecture. However, we need to do a better job of creating unique and exciting frameworks outside of that. More Rose Kennedy Greenways, Silver Line bus-mock-subways and landscrapers won't cut it.

Boston has come a long way since the 1970's. In other respects, it has a long way to go.
 
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ONCEAGAIN Iam agrees with SMessy camp of thoutGHT. PARADES ARE WHAT WE ARE NEEDIBG.
First...RENACTING the HISTORY.

ALSO. NO LADKRAPERS.
3rd. WE need THE INNOVATiination.
next: THE Fariswhele LOOKS FORWATD. PLUS. Putting ARCH BACK INT ARCHST.:)

PLUS: innovatory thots. AND LIFSTILE.

AND. MORE WHIMSEY. not LORD Peters or Mary Popins kinds.
BUT. if YOU aEr NOT LISTENIN. THen. More landcraBS and BAD BAD food plus OLde Stats HOuse.

Und thEn where are We?
LOOSERS
 
bostonbred said:
ONCEAGAIN Iam agrees with SMessy camp of thoutGHT. PARADES ARE WHAT WE ARE NEEDIBG.
First...RENACTING the HISTORY.

ALSO. NO LADKRAPERS.
3rd. WE need THE INNOVATiination.
next: THE Fariswhele LOOKS FORWATD. PLUS. Putting ARCH BACK INT ARCHST.:)

PLUS: innovatory thots. AND LIFSTILE.

AND. MORE WHIMSEY. not LORD Peters or Mary Popins kinds.
BUT. if YOU aEr NOT LISTENIN. THen. More landcraBS and BAD BAD food plus OLde Stats HOuse.

Und thEn where are We?
LOOSERS
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Gotta luv da bred - - u b da king de whimsyness.
 
shmessy said:
Boston has the greatest built-in advantage in the world when it comes to top universities. Unfortunately, Boston values its police union rules and precinct political culture more than it does its dreamers and risk takers.
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This. So this.
 
Wouldn't happen for any number of reasons, but I think making the museum roof accessible from the esplanade and covering it with walkways, stairs, sculpture, and some green connecting the two cities in a grand crossing could be amazing. The different roof heights would make for many interesting locations and the views would be incredible.

More realistically, as noted, a cafe and better connections over Storrow would do wonders.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how we got so deep into this discussion just because Toby doesn't like the London Eye.
 
Put the ferries wheel on the Fort Point Channel. Right on Children's Museum Park.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
Put the ferries wheel on the Fort Point Channel. Right on Children's Museum Park.
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Yes! I think that would be a perfect place for a ferris wheel. The views of downtown would be incredible and it would make a nice restful tourist rest-stop between the Childrens and the soon-to-be Tea Party Museum.

Or.....put it at the Gillette (hopefully to eventually move) end of the channel in order to better disperse foot traffic and create a more spread out and balanced Fort Point Channel experience. That Channel is a jewel just waiting to be uncovered.

Sorry, for the tangent......back to the Esplanade
 
statler said:
I'm still trying to figure out how we got so deep into this discussion just because Toby doesn't like the London Eye.
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I think some of us found that the "to-do list" detailed here was silly and half-assed. As discussions go, the inevitable ensued...

Ron Newman said:
The low Mass. Ave. bridge right now divides the Charles River basin into the part used by sailboats and the part used by crew boats. I'm not sure it's a good idea to freely mix these.
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Creating a Red Line bypass of downtown that would also reconnect an underserved community with actual subway service would offset any worries about recreational and competitive sailing on the Charles. I think you'll agree that this is a First World Problem.
 
Ron Newman said:
why should we hope for a major industrial employer (one of the few we have left) to move away?
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That train left the station years ago.

The company is now called Procter and Gamble of Cincinnati, Ohio.

(For now) They have an enormous, low slung plant/office at the elbow edge of Fort Point Channel.

They could get a nice profit selling that underutilized land and acres of parking lots and move to Lynn or Chelsea or wherever the hell. We've all saying the same about the USPS facility on the Channel.

Should THAT land really be taken up by enormous, low slung industrial plants??? Is that really the best use for that real estate?
 
Just took a little while to read through Esplanade 2020. Seems ambitious to say the least, but if implemented would drastically recreate the Boston side of the Charles.

Any thoughts on the likelihood of this something to fruition? Or what percentage is likely to actually get implemented?
 
MBTAddict said:
Just took a little while to read through Esplanade 2020. Seems ambitious to say the least, but if implemented would drastically recreate the Boston side of the Charles.

Any thoughts on the likelihood of this something to fruition? Or what percentage is likely to actually get implemented?
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Given that Storrow Drive is scheduled (but not yet funded) for major and expensive maintenance work in the next 10 years, the part about reconfiguration away from the Esplanade and back under one arch of the Longfellow (thus, eliminating the ridiculous and unnecessarily wide median strip park there) is a definite possibility. (pages 58-59).

Personally, I'm ok with the Commonwealth selling off the Rose Kennedy Greenway to developers and sending the money to the Esplanade folks to polish up the real gem instead of trying (and failing) to artificially invent a new one. They could then also consolidate the Greenway Conservancy into the Esplanade group. Money concerns = solved!
 
I didn't know that Storrow was scheduled for major maintenance. That makes re configuration much more likely.
 
MBTAddict said:
I didn't know that Storrow was scheduled for major maintenance. That makes re configuration much more likely.
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Actually Point #4 on page 98 summarizes the multiple opportunities over the next few years that coincide with DOT initiatives for that area.

If they could be made to dovetail the plans, it could be a lot more feasible.
 
shmessy said:
Given that Storrow Drive is scheduled (but not yet funded) for major and expensive maintenance work in the next 10 years, the part about reconfiguration away from the Esplanade and back under one arch of the Longfellow (thus, eliminating the ridiculous and unnecessarily wide median strip park there) is a definite possibility. (pages 58-59).

Personally, I'm ok with the Commonwealth selling off the Rose Kennedy Greenway to developers and sending the money to the Esplanade folks to polish up the real gem instead of trying (and failing) to artificially invent a new one. They could then also consolidate the Greenway Conservancy into the Esplanade group. Money concerns = solved!
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Oddly, I completely agree with you. It may be self-preservation of my 'hood, or cynical, or whatever, but I think the waterfront and "greenway" will be able to take care of itself as it develops (assuming the BRA doesn't arse it up, although that's a big "IF").

Even so, the Esplanade and terrible mess that Storrow is ....both for the drivers and the walking/biking public.... really needs attention from professionals and not hacks in debt to the Mayor's office.
 
You people do realize this thread is the Esplanade thread, right? This discussion would feel much more at home in the Inno. District or Kendall thread.
 
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