Citgo Sign Debate

statler

statler

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The Herald said:
Sign off, Hugo: Pol lights into Bush-bashing Venezuelan loudmouth
By Laura Crimaldi and Renee Nadeau
Friday, September 22, 2006 - Updated: 03:25 AM EST

In a move that could ignite a civil war between Red Sox Nation and the United States of America, a Boston city councilor wants to replace Fenway?s famed Citgo sign with Old Glory to show a world leader that he?s the real ?el diablo.?
Allston-Brighton City Councilor Jerry P. McDermott wants the Hub to fire back at Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez for calling President Bush ?the devil? at the United Nations on Wednesday. His modest proposal: removing Kenmore Square?s famed Citgo sign, which is owned by Citgo Oil, a Venezuelan subsidiary.
?Given the hatred of the United States displayed by dictator Hugo Chavez, it would be more fitting to see an American flag when you drive through Kenmore Square,? said McDermott, who yesterday filed a resolution with the city clerk to have the sign removed. ?I think people would soon forget the Citgo sign.?
Not so fast, said some members of Red Sox Nation.
?The sign is an icon,? said U.S. Rep. William D. Delahunt (D-Quincy), who has supported American relations with Chavez in the past, but slammed him for his recent remarks about Bush. ?A resolution condemning the comments of Hugo Chavez would be more appropriate.?
?We leave the politics to the politicians,? said Citgo spokesman David McCollum, who noted Citgo retail stations, which are independently owned and operated, don?t necessarily even sell gas from Citgo refineries.
Citgo attempted to dismantle the ?neon god? in 1983, but abandoned the plan under protests from the city. Last year, Citgo paid about $1 million to refurbish the sign by replacing the neon bulbs with brighter LEDS, a company spokesman said.
The Citgo-owned sign sits atop a Boston University building and is permitted for display by the city. A Red Sox spokesman declined to comment on McDermott?s proposal, which goes before the City Council next week.
?He?s just looking for a name for himself,? said Marty Foley, 61, a Hingham electrician who has taken care of the sign since 1965. ?The Citgo Corp. keeps a lot of Americans working.?
Given Venuzuela?s warm diplomatic relations with the likes of Iran, McDermott?s resolution even had the Fenway faithful wondering whether to root against the sign.
?They (Venezuela) are playing footsie with Iran. Words do one thing, but Iran is a dangerous country,? says Peter Garmley of Natick, who once climbed the Citgo sign. ?It?s an icon, but I?m a little on the fence, because I think you should invest in what you believe in.?
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Politics aside, I'm really not a big fan of the Citgo sign, I always thought it was kinda tacky, but if they replace it with a giant lite-brite flag, rocks are going to get thrown. :evil:
 
How did Jerry McDermott get elected from Allston-Brighton?

If you took a poll in A-B, asking which was more popular, George W. Bush or the Citgo Sign, the results wouldn't be even close.

(Note to McDermott: hating GWBush != hating the United States.)
 
Ron Newman said:
(Note to McDermott: hating GWBush != hating the United States.)
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Exactly.

With the logic that hating bush = hating america, youd have a civil war going on.
 
This is coming from a dictator that insists that "when the time is right" he will jack up oil export prices from Venezuela to cripple the United States economy. He actually intends to do harm to the United States, but people in Harlem applaud him and somehow George W. Bush is the issue in all of this.

Liberalism is destroying our country. We're afraid to say we hate people that want to destroy us.
 
Ron Newman said:
How did Jerry McDermott get elected from Allston-Brighton?

If you took a poll in A-B, asking which was more popular, George W. Bush or the Citgo Sign, the results wouldn't be even close.

(Note to McDermott: hating GWBush != hating the United States.)
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I dont get that. hating gwbush = hating the united state?
so you hate the united states? does that make any sense? Is that a type-o
 
That symbol is a != , which means "is not equal to". It may be a bit esoteric since it comes from the world of computer programming languages.

Any producer of any commodity would love to raise prices and make more money.
 
Ron Newman said:
Any producer of any commodity would love to raise prices and make more money.
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So.. this justifies destroying the national economy. With that line of reasoning, you would say that all developers would love to raise the prices on condos in boston and make more money and that this is just.

But if, god forbid, they don't include some low income housing Ron, all the poor people you feel morally and intellectually superior to will perish!
 
I just don't see Chavez's desire to raise oil prices as being any different from that of any other member of OPEC. The cartel has not been especially effective in recent years.
 
Ron Newman said:
I just don't see Chavez's desire to raise oil prices as being any different from that of any other member of OPEC. The cartel has not been especially effective in recent years.
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The difference lies in his repeatedly expressed desire to cripple the American economy.
 
I would argue that the spending habits of our leaders?on such things as rebuilding foreign nations and extravagant patriotic neon signs?is what?s destroying our nation, not liberalism. Americans seriously need to grow a thicker skin when it comes to such insults.

Has it really come to the point that wingnuts are pondering tearing down our beloved city icons in the name of their lord G.W. Bush.? That scares me much more than higher oil prices.
 
Hmmm

Sometimes a debate gets lost in the wilderness. To argue about who's worse between Bush and Chavez is at best useless.

In my opinion, George W. Bush is a jackass precisely because he allows A-holes like Hugo Chavez, a textbook power hungry demagogue, to dictate the terms of the conversation.

Because Bush seems to think America's better off seeming tough, he and his conservative fellow travelers fly off the handle and get into every staring contest that any wannabe tries to pick. It's a terrible strategy for 1) aligning world opinion with us (which, don't forget, is a matter of the highest importance to national security, not some wishy-washy "please like us" popularity contest), and 2) maintaining and improving the quality of our armed forces and their ability to do what they were meant to do in the first place, which is defend America.

I have many problems with how Bush does things, primarily how he seems to think that his primary (and seemingly only) responsibility is to "protect the American people," which he hasn't done very well, but Bush's insistence on responding drastically to every perceived slight is high on the list.

If and when we drop this strategy and get back to systematic use of soft power, the Hugo Chavez's of the world will disappear.
 
Why don't you guys read Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival" (the one Chavez referenced at the beginning of his speech at the UN) and consider the reasons why Chavez, and millions of people all over the world, think the system Bush represents is not a very just and enlightened one?
 
shiz02130 said:
Why don't you guys read Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival" (the one Chavez referenced at the beginning of his speech at the UN) and consider the reasons why Chavez, and millions of people all over the world, think the system Bush represents is not a very just and enlightened one?
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Chomsky is the biggest hate monger of them all. Talk about taking advantage of a system, milking it for what it's worth and then trashing it.

Ron would be proud though, as a distinguished MIT alumnus.
 
shiz02130 said:
Why don't you guys read Chomsky's book "Hegemony or Survival" (the one Chavez referenced at the beginning of his speech at the UN) and consider the reasons why Chavez, and millions of people all over the world, think the system Bush represents is not a very just and enlightened one?
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Because Chomsky is a disgusting anti-American commie piece of shit (no offense intended... seriously).
 
Re: Hmmm

PerfectHandle said:
If and when we drop this strategy and get back to systematic use of soft power, the Hugo Chavez's of the world will disappear.
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That is the most pathetic statement I've ever read on any of these boards.

Crawl into your shell and die.
 
The Globe said:
Boston pol takes aim at Citgo sign after 'devil' comment

September 22, 2006

BOSTON --A city councilor wants to take down the famed Citgo sign in Kenmore Square in response to controversial remarks by Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez, who called President Bush "the devil."

The Citgo sign has been a Boston landmark for decades, in part because it is so prominently visible over the left-field wall at Fenway Park.

But after Chavez called President Bush "the devil" during a speech Wednesday at the United Nations, Councilor Jerry McDermott said the sign has to go. Citgo is subsidiary of Venezuela's state oil company. McDermott wants replace the sign with an American flag.

"Given the hatred of the United States displayed by dictator Hugo Chavez, it would be more fitting to see an American flag when you drive through Kenmore Square," McDermott told The Boston Herald. "I think people would soon forget the Citgo sign."

Citgo paid $1 million to refurbish the sign last year, said company spokesman David McCollum, who downplayed McDermott's proposed nonbinding resolution.

"We leave the politics to the politicians," he said.

The Red Sox had no comment, but fan Peter Garmley said he'd consider supporting the resolution.

"It's an icon, but I'm a little on the fence, because I think you should invest in what you believe in," said the Natick resident, who said he once climbed the Citgo tower.

An attempt by Citgo to dismantle the sign in the early 1980s was abandoned after strong opposition from the city.
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Someone at Fark.com said:
What a swell idea. As we all know, the absolute best way to approach complex geopolitical issues is through simple-mided, empty symbolic gestures.
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:lol:
hugoSucks2.jpg
:lol:
 
This is ridicules. Just because the president of Venezuela said the Bush is the devil doesn't mean the Citgo company thinks he is too. I mean if I said that Bush is a devil then does that mean all the Chinese people in the world think he is a devil?
 
DarkFenX said:
This is ridicules. Just because the president of Venezuela said the Bush is the devil doesn't mean the Citgo company thinks he is too. I mean if I said that Bush is a devil then does that mean all the Chinese people in the world think he is a devil?
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The Citgo corporation is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Venezuelan government.
 
At the rate Chavez is wrecking his country's economy and infrastructure he will be toppled soon by an angry populace. Nationalizing industries for personal power and profit, placing cronies in charge of all nationalize industries and government offices, scaring off most foreign investment , and blowing your country's wealth on buying foreign influence is not a smart move if a poor population needs a growing economy and many choices of employment. When he is gone I doubt whomever replaces him, even if they are anti-American, won't be such a dolt when it comes to insulting other world leaders and colluding with mentally unstable nut jobs like the leisure suit wearing Hitler wannabe from Iran. In other words, when Chavez goes there won't be any negative connections with Citgo left. Although given my own personal suffering at the hands of the CPSU, I must say that I don't like seeing Citgos given that the company is currently being used to fund many nasty Marxist organizations.
 
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