Columbus Center: RIP | Back Bay

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As soon as Ned presented his conspiracy theory about the Bay Village Neighborhood Association, he lost me. Hey Ned, I hear that the reason Winn-Cassin don't want a big park is because they won't have any place for their Yeti to hide Jimmy Hoffa's body!
 
Re: The obvious question

JimboJones said:
So, how many people actually live in the city?

In this specific case, how many of you have actually spent any amount of time in the Back Bay / South End neighborhood?

Have any of you actually been to the site of this project?

I live in the city, I live in Back Bay, I frequently pass by the site. I can't think of a better place for a high-rise.

To further qualify my statement, I live on Comm Ave right by Mass Ave, and cross the Mass Ave bridge over the Pike almost every day. I can say that without a doubt, that I would prefer the Boylston Tower to be built. Nothing is more miserable that dealing with the wind that funnels down the Pike in the winter, the small particulates that get continuosly blown in my eye when crossing the bridge, the deafening roar that keeps me from talking on the phone or to whoever i'm walking with, and just dealing with the plain ugliness of it.

I'm sorry, but it's tough for me to get concerned about any issues that have been raised, other than the likely political improprities.

The open space? Come on, how much useless open space does the city need? What can you do in 2 acres that you can't do in a pocket park?

The height? Maybe its just me, but it seems that there is some significantly sized buildings nearby, more noteably a much taller one that has to have the worst urban streetscape of any building in the city. I may not be an astronomer, but I believe that in the northern hemisphere, buildings don't typically cast southerly shadows except for a brief period in the winter, so I'm not sure what height has to do with anything.

The density? I just want to make sure I understand this. The densest part of this project is ADJACENT to the third largest transit hub in a 5 state region. I've always been under the impression that the best way to maximize public transit is to have more people use it.

Ned, while I enjoyed the Q&A format, I have to agree with most people here that your opinion, no matter how strongly you hold it, is not a fact. Differences of opinions are great, because it leads to innovation and compromise. No developer is ever going to be willing to build exactly what you want, and since I doubt you are considering moving to CC, it wouldn't be a wise busienss decision to design it with your views in mind.

Should this ever get built, it is my opinion that the controversy will end shortly there-after. People will live there, lodge there, work there, shop there, walk there dog in the park, take pictures of it, ask for directions to it, and yes, perhaps even criticize it. In other words, it will be just a couple more buildings integrated into the city.
 
In reply to Justin, Chumbolly, Singbat, Stellarfun, Altrvr...

Q-43. Is density always bad and open space always good?
A-43. No; density can be beneficial, and open space can be ineffective.
Government Center Plaza is a textbook example of poorly designed and implemented open space, but that?s no reason to abandon open space altogether. In any event, the Master Plan authors concluded that the skyscrapers? excess density ? not the lowest 150', but the topmost 270' ? would cause enough harm to warrant a compensating reimbursement to the public realm, and they specified the 2-acre contiguous public park to accomplish it.

Q-44. What?s the actual relationship between MTA?s transfer tax, air rights lease, ground lease, condominium documents, and tunnel collapse insurance?
A-44. No one knows yet.
The 1,100-page lease (signed 2 May 2006 and in re-negotiation ever since) defines the $10,000-30,000 re-sale tax that MTA clearly wants to collect from every condominium unit. Condominium documents are controlled by MTA, not the developer, so MTA has the upper hand from the outset. Just how MTA will write those documents a few years from now isn?t known yet, but MTA has already confirmed one unique angle: the next 99 years of inspecting, maintaining, and insuring the transportation corridor is each condominium unit owner?s legal liability and financial responsibility, not MTA?s. Settlement of the 2006 tunnel collapse fatality is now approaching $1 billion, so the re-negotiated lease and the brand new condominium documents will deserve much public scrutiny once they?re available.

Q-45. Who?s responsible for deleting the 2-acre public park?
A-45. MTA, BRA, Mayor Menino, and CalPERS all share this responsibility.
The MTA, BRA, and Mayor Menino authored, approved, and published the Master Plan, and it is they who decided to require the 2-acre public park. The former project owners (Winn Development) initially promised to comply with the entire Master Plan, but later replaced the 150' tower with their 420' version, and replaced the 2-acre park with their 633-car garage. In violation of the very Master Plan they themselves had authored, MTA, BRA, and Mayor Menino approved both of these replacements. The new owners (CalPERS) bought the project and the company from the former owners, lock-stock-and-barrel, including this liability. So everyone has become a party to this switcheroo. If MTA, BRA, and Mayor Menino weren?t sincere about creating and maintaining this public park, then they never should have illustrated it and committed to it on 10 different pages of their Master Plan, which took 50 public meetings, two years, and $1 million to produce. They published their Master Plan with great fanfare on 28 June 2000; but 7 years later, the promised park has been replaced with a 633-car garage.

Q-46. What is the new owner?s actual involvement?
A-46. The new owner structure is detailed in my Q&A #14.
Columbus Center doesn?t appear on CalPERS? Web site because they keep all their speculative real estate ventures ?off the books? of California state government, via their CUIP subsidiary, which MacFarlane Urban Realty Company manages for them. The 99-year lease signed on 2 May 2006 showed a general plan to fund the project with $145 million investor funds from CalPERS + $438 million in commercial loans to CalPERS from Anglo Irish Bank + "as much as possible" from 14 public subsidies split by CalPERS, MacFarlane, Winn, and MTA. Yes, MTA, as a revenue-sharing and profit-sharing partner, would also benefit from the project's public subsidy scheme. On 7 and 12 July 2007, the new owners claimed costs totaled $700 million (?Democrats oppose Patrick on Grant,? Boston Globe and ?Owners to be liable for new Pike tunnel,? Boston Herald); but by 19 July, they said the cost was $800 million (?DiMasi rips $10m grant for project,? Boston Globe). This explains the new owners? renewed requests that the public foot the bills for both their costs and their profits.

Q-47. Should a project ever be designed as any one individual wishes?
A-47. No, never.
Instead, projects at this and every air rights location:

? (a) should be competitively bid in a free market (as required by state law and the Master Plan);
? (b), should fully disclose all public subsidies from the outset per GAGAS (Generally Accepted Government Accounting Standards); and
? (c) should adhere to the Master Plan specifications (No owner who raises the 150' tower to a 420' skyscraper should ever be allowed to replace the required, contiguous, 2-acre public park with a 633-car garage).

If these 3 principles are followed, any reasonable person should be pleased with the results.
 
Ned, GAGAS is a Federal auditing standard, not an accounting standard. State and local government accounting standards are established by GASB, the Government Accounting Standards Board. (GASB does not set Federal accounting standards.)

The CalPERS annual report for fiscal 2006 lists all their domestic real estate investments, no mention of Columbus Center and this one mention of MacFarlane:
JOHNSON MACFARLAND [sic] PARTNERS (CUIP) with a net assets at cost amount of $80+ million.

Johnson is Magic Johnson.

From what I can tell, CUIP is part of CalPERS CURE initiative, California Urban Real Estate. And CURE (and CUIP) do not invest in projects outside of California. MacFarlane may be helping CalPERS in managing the project, but I think it is straight CalPERS and not CUIP, and MacFarlane has no equity interest.

The Anglo-Irish loan is for construction, and would go to Winn.
 
Why is a California state government agency involved with developing a Massachusetts project?
 
Re: The obvious question

JimboJones said:
It seems as though many of the people who comment on the Architectural Boston forum actually live outside of Boston. There are high school students in New Hampshire, high school students in North Carolina, high sch... I mean, others in Atlanta, overseas, etc.

So, how many people actually live in the city?

In this specific case, how many of you have actually spent any amount of time in the Back Bay / South End neighborhood?

Have any of you actually been to the site of this project?

Do you think it is important to understand it from the point of view of someone who actually lives there (and has lived there, for years?).

From my questions, you can guess, I think it is!

Are you implying that Boston is absolutely high-school age free? Or that people in high school cannot have interest in architecture and development? I personally may not live there, but I spend a big part of my time there.

Of course it is important to see it from their point of view, but sometimes, they can be a little self-centered. I believe that is the basis of the term NIMBY. Someone who can't bear to sacrifice a little in order for the city to gain a lot.

And again, what about tourists? What about attracting new people to the city? How will our city make money if we can't attract new business with shiny skyscrapers, new residents to work in those businesses without convenient condominiums? A good part of the BRAs job is to try and make residents happy, but they also need to think about the future of the city.
 
Ron Newman said:
Why is a California state government agency involved with developing a Massachusetts project?

A.) A diversified portfolio

B.) Lots of money to invest.

CalPERS has invested in at least 23 projects overseas, over $700 million worth of investment.

Domestically, over 100 projects with over $10 billion invested.

The link below is a list of real estate equity transactions for CalPERS in the month of September 2006.

http://www.calpers.ca.gov/eip-docs/...s/invest/200609/supplement-sep06/part-d-2.pdf

You can see a lot are not in California.
 
Ned - This iteration of CC is probably dead, so my guess is you can relax.
 
Not quite dead yet...

Among the details Ned shares with us (I won't say facts but he sounds well-informed) contributors to this site argue the merits of building heights, pollution controls and park size as if this is the real matter at hand.

I don't get it. We all want the Pike covered, pollution controlled where possible, and height where appropriate. Seems to me, however, the controversy is elsewhere.

Public leadership regarding this project has been appalling.

Am I alone in thinking this? Or do we simply take it for granted?
 
cColumbus Center about to start?

tocoto said:
Ned - This iteration of CC is probably dead, so my guess is you can relax.
The last sentence in the Boston Courant article mentioned above:

the groundwork is laid for work to begin next month on Columbus Center
 
The full sentence is:

The renewed interest in large-scale development in the Back Bay comes as construction continues apace on The Clarendon, a 32-story residential tower, and the groundwork is laid for work to begin next month on Columbus Center, the sprawling air-rights complex between the Back Bay and South End.

I think that is meant to interpreted as "ground work is being laid." In other words, same situation it has been in for awhile.
 
Ron Newman said:
By 'ground work' do you mean the deck or foundation?
I think that term is being used colloquially, as in, things are being lined up to start the project (like they have been for years), not that they are actually doing any work involving the ground.
 
My interpretation of 'groundwork' would include preparing a staging zone for the deck contractor, who is JF White, White has it on their project list -- as two related projects actually -- with a street address of 30 Church St., and starting any utility work
 
Jobs ?R? Us center
Luxury developer sees 7,400-worker gold mine
Scott Van Voorhis
Friday, September 7, 2007

Columbus Center developers are pitching their $800 million project as a job creation machine as they seek millions of dollars in state grants.

But claims that his luxury condo and hotel complex, which would take shape on a deck over the Massachusetts Turnpike a few blocks from the Hancock Tower, will create a jobs bonanza -more than 7,400 listed on one grant application - are raising eyebrows.

Few are disputing the hotel and condo highrise and its retail shops and restaurants will create a few hundred jobs, while construction of the project itself would producea couple thousand more.

But a detailed estimate of additional jobs the project would help create in the local economy after it opens is being attacked as ?nonsense? by Shirley Kressel, an outspoken activist and head of the Alliance of Boston Neighborhoods. Those jobs, projected using an economic multiplier, include 5.6 jobs in newspaper publishing and 5.1 jobs in ?motor vehicle parts manufacturing.??Motor vehicle (parts) manufacturing?? asked an incredulous Kressell. ?Is there any human endeavor they left out of their job creation pallette??

The 5,000-plus new jobs claim was included in two applications for state economic development grant money sought on behalf of the Columbus Center team, which features prominent local developers Arther Winn and Roger Cassin. While the Columbus Center team was involved in both applications, they were submitted by Boston City Hall, which would administer the money.

?I would be very skeptical,? said Northeastern University economist Barry Bluestone.

The job estimates cover a broad range of fields, including more than 100 new jobs in real estate, 207.9 positions at local ?food and beverage stores,? as well as an additional 278.8 jobs in architecture and engineering.

?There is no way people living in 400 condos can support 278 architects,? said Ned Flaherty, a South End activist and project opponent.

Alan Eisner, a spokesman for the project, defended the estimates, noting they were produced by a Minnesota firm that routinely does this work for state and federal agenies around the country.

?The opponents are very shortsighted,? Eisner said. ?A project like this once and for all will connect these disjointed neighborhoods in a beautifully landscaped way and will be a showpiece for the neighborhood for many years to come.?


Link



The Herald now allows for people to comment on their articles ... check it out:

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1029859&format=commentsBy
 
The longer this goes on the more I feel that this is just some developers trying to bilk the state out of millions of state grants and then not build anything. But that is the skeptic in me talking.
 
Shirley should stick to shrubs and trees.

Whether properly applied or not in this instance, the 7,500 jobs were created by using an employment multiplier. Its done all the time.

See this article by the Fed on how 2,000 jobs at a new automobile manufacturing plant in Texas ballooned to 16,000 jobs,in the eyes of the great state of Texas.

http://www.dallasfed.org/research/vista/vista0401.html
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
The longer this goes on the more I feel that this is just some developers trying to bilk the state out of millions of state grants and then not build anything. But that is the skeptic in me talking.

The more I read about this development, the more I think of the phrase "Why do bad things happen to good people?"
Except in this case is, "Why are good things being built by bad people?"

It's situations like this the create a new generation of NIMBY's and give new development a bad name.
You could argue that the the developers are forced to play these games due to neighborhood groups and governmental regulations, but it really is a chicken and egg situation.
Nobody wins. :roll:
 
stellarfun said:
Shirley should stick to shrubs and trees.

Whether properly applied or not in this instance, the 7,500 jobs were created by using an employment multiplier. Its done all the time.

See this article by the Fed on how 2,000 jobs at a new automobile manufacturing plant in Texas ballooned to 16,000 jobs,in the eyes of the great state of Texas.

http://www.dallasfed.org/research/vista/vista0401.html

That article makes Shirley's point to a certain extent. That article shows that the multipliers can overstate the new job growth or underestimate the number.

If the creation of jobs factor is being used to allocate more money from the city, then the number should be scrutinized.

Also, what is this ?motor vehicle parts manufacturing? part to the project? Is this a real part to the project or is this just numbers being thrown out there, regarding possible future tenants of the complex?
 
shockingboston said:
stellarfun said:
Shirley should stick to shrubs and trees.

Whether properly applied or not in this instance, the 7,500 jobs were created by using an employment multiplier. Its done all the time.

See this article by the Fed on how 2,000 jobs at a new automobile manufacturing plant in Texas ballooned to 16,000 jobs,in the eyes of the great state of Texas.

http://www.dallasfed.org/research/vista/vista0401.html

That article makes Shirley's point to a certain extent. That article shows that the multipliers can overstate the new job growth or underestimate the number.

If the creation of jobs factor is being used to allocate more money from the city, then the number should be scrutinized.

Also, what is this ?motor vehicle parts manufacturing? part to the project? Is this a real part to the project or is this just numbers being thrown out there, regarding possible future tenants of the complex?

In the Boston Herald comment section on the articles, there is this comment:
I know the software Scott refers to, and its a Minnesota firm called IMPLAN and its the most respected job creation software available. I don't understand the point of this article, except to point out that the author is against the project. this story is getting old. let's move on.

Here is a link to IMPLAN:
http://www.implan.com/products.html

List of some users of IMPLAN software:
http://www.implan.com/references.html

The motor vehicle and other weird job creation numbers probably result from attempts to distribute indirect and/or induced jobs across SIC codes. For example, if a contractor has to buy 5 trucks for a big project, then the model may say that leads to x jobs in the truck manufacturing sector.
 
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