Columbus Center: RIP | Back Bay

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Columbus Center

^^We can split this thread a thousand times and it won't matter. This is the only thread Ned will ever visit and he will continue speak out against UFP's in this thread and this thread only.

I would love for Ned to see what we are doing in the SC&L thread and maybe even lend a hand with some of his media contacts. But we all know that will never happen.

As long as Drucker 'adheres to the principles', he can destroy the city all he wants and "urban activists" like Ned, won't issue so much as raise a peep.

Edit: I was wrong.
 
Last edited:
Re: Columbus Center

Ned, you must move immediately from your current residence or you will suffer permanent and extensive damage from UFPs. Since this project is dead, there is no need for you to let your health suffer anymore for the benefit of the city. Thank you for your help, and please keep your own health in mind, remembering that the South End is still dangerous because of the UFPs being spewed out of every street and railway, even if Columbus Center isn't built. I am not kidding you, your lifespan will drop dramatically if you stay where you are, along with those (if you have them) of your partner and child(ren).
 
Re: Columbus Center

All of those who just scoff and laugh at the UFP dangers remind me of the rich people on the Titanic who were joking around and using pieces of the iceberg to chill their drinks. They weren't laughing so hard when all the lifeboats were gone.
 
Re: Columbus Center

Columbus Center = Titanic

I can see that.

Both seemed like really good ideas at the time but both turned out to be unmitigated disasters of epic proportions.
 
Re: Columbus Center

How long must one be exposed to UFP's for damage to be done? What is the damage and what are the manifestations?
 
Re: Columbus Center

tobyjug said:
How long must one be exposed to UFP's for damage to be done? What is the damage and what are the manifestations?
Click to expand...

Here is a 2007 summary paper:

http://www.northeastdiesel.org/pdf/UFPwhitePaper20070205.pdf

There are a large number of variables with respect to exposure; e.g., local meteorology. The epidemiology is very complex, given the variable rates of exposure during the day, e.g., a toll collector who lives near the Mass Pike and collects tolls at the tunnel eight hours a day.

If you wanted to do an epidemiological study of long term exposure to the air vented from tunnels in Boston, look at the neighborhood around the vents for the Callahan and Summer tunnels. For emissions data from the Callahan and other tunnels see here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1299785/Environmental-Protection-Agency-crce64

(caution, very long paper)
 
Re: Columbus Center

stellarfun said:
If you wanted to do an epidemiological study of long term exposure to the air vented from tunnels in Boston, look at the neighborhood around the vents for the Callahan and Summer tunnels. For emissions data from the Callahan and other tunnels see here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1299785/Environmental-Protection-Agency-crce64
Click to expand...

Thank for posting this. A proper study concerning this area of East Boston (Meridian Street, Central Square) would also need to consider the impact of the airport. Aggregating the data is difficult; I believe the state-sponsored study that was alluded to above will consider these factors.
 
Re: Columbus Center

Stellarfun,

Thank you for posting this information. It makes it appear that the prospects of eliminating the deleterious effects of diesel fuel, short of banning it in urban areas, seem limited. The use of low sulfur fuel helps, but only to a point. Sulfur sinks, is that technology viable on a large scale? Doesn't look promising. I wonder how current air quality compares to the height of the coal era, say 1915?

Toby
 
Re: Columbus Center

A late edition to a thread that should have died a long time ago.

In defense of Ned's assertions, to whatever validity you hold his claims, however dangerous you think UFPs are, and however obnoxious and disingenuous you think he is, he does have a valid point. His presentation however is too technical and lacks simplicity and directness.

Have you ever seen the vent on Stuart Street that spews black smoke and soot out of the section of Copley Place that covers the highway? The ashen smoke that spews forth in random bursts throughout the day is disgusting, noxious and definitely bad for you. It?s like a large smokestack that billows out into the street. Can we all agree that auto, truck, and train exhaust is probably bad for you? Does anyone like breathing in diesel fumes?

Suppose then a developer owns property above a highway where smoke and exhaust are constantly emitted. The building he wants to build leaves a narrow and small cut where all the smoke and exhaust will be channeled up into the atmosphere akin to a large smokestack. Any abutting property owner who shares a window onto that cut will definitely get a larger than normal share of noxious fumes. It would pose a definite health concern. Even if it means halting construction, is it not fair then to try and force the developer to at least address this design deficiency before proceeding to build on said property?

To answer both questions, yes its a reasonable to one, worry about health risks from exhaust or UFPs; and two, by whatever means you can convince the developer, city, state to make changes to correct the design as to avoid said health concerns as a result of the new building.

What Ned has never answered directly--and the reason he comes of as a disingenuous obstructionist--is whether or not he would be in favor of Columbus Center if the developer fixed the design flaws, eliminated UFP emission and built a building that posed no health risk. Even if the building was 30 stories tall, brought more traffic and blocked a view. Yes or no?
 
Re: Columbus Center

what we need to do is put giant fans on top of the skyscrapers that will blow all the crap southwest, to new york city, where it belongs.
 
Re: Columbus Center

Well since the jet stream flows from west to east I think it would make more sense to blow it out to sea. New York has it's own crap, thank you very much.
 
Re: Columbus Center

RP the issue with Ned's UFP argument is that it is completely unreasonable to require a development to implement a scrubbing technology that does not yet exist at this scale.
 
Re: Columbus Center

RP, where exactly is this vent on Stuart St.? Is it perchance near Back Bay station? Your description of black smoke and soot sounds as if it might be the exhaust from the MBTA's diesel locomotives.

To my way of thinking, the easiest and cheapest fix for a good amount of the air pollution along the Mass Pike and in Back Bay would be to electrify the Worcester branch out to Allston and have the MBTA use dual mode locomotives for the Worcester and Attleboro lines. The link below is for a dual mode locomotive (that uses third rail) on the LIRR.

http://references.transportation.siemens.com/refdb/showReference.do?div=6&l=en&r=239
 
Re: Columbus Center

BeatDeadHorse.gif
 
Re: Columbus Center

I just spit out my Cap'n Crunch!!!!
 
Re: Columbus Center

TC: No I agree thats pretty unreasonable.

Stellarfun: I forget exactly--I haven't been down in that area in a while. The vent is built into the side of one of the Copley Buildings, near the intersection of Stuart and Huntington. Was walking there one day and saw all this smoke coming out, it was disgusting. Definitely not next to Back Bay Station, if you look for it you'll find it.

I was hoping Ned would come back and answer my question, maybe someday. Hope this project gets built sometime in the near future--I really like the proposal. Its just if I were living next door near the open cuts for the transit lines I'd probably be a little worried about fumes..
 
Re: Columbus Center

Ronwell Pudding said:
TC: No I agree thats pretty unreasonable.

Stellarfun: I forget exactly--I haven't been down in that area in a while. The vent is built into the side of one of the Copley Buildings, near the intersection of Stuart and Huntington. Was walking there one day and saw all this smoke coming out, it was disgusting. Definitely not next to Back Bay Station, if you look for it you'll find it.

I was hoping Ned would come back and answer my question, maybe someday. Hope this project gets built sometime in the near future--I really like the proposal. Its just if I were living next door near the open cuts for the transit lines I'd probably be a little worried about fumes..
Click to expand...

RP, these look like vents, at the intersection of Stuart and Huntington. I think the train platforms for Back Bay, at least the Worcester Branch, would be underneath.

SNAG-01878.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top