Copley Place Expansion and Tower | Back Bay

[tommym96]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

I thought it was well said. She provided alot of substance in a small space; brief and to the point. I agree with her.

 

[atlantaden]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

ADA has never had full funding. If you want to ensure it does, vote MCCAIN-PALIN next week!

Please Google "Special Olympics", "Alaska", "Palin", to see how committed Sarah Palin is to children with special needs. Sorry to get off topic and into politics but it's difficult not to respond.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Beton, let's be fair. Do you try to educate Shirley Kressel who is usually more in line with NABB's views, except for this one issue? One thing is certain, politics makes strange bedfellows and the Shreve building fight is no exception

Actually, Shirley and I have had a number of conversations on a variety of development issues. Our conversation about the Greenway and its issues and shortcomings was actually quite fascinating.

I'll let Shirley speak for herself, at the time and place of her choosing. That said, I think you'd find that her opinions generally slant toward the "good urbanism" concepts often expounded here. The issues that Shirley is most vocal about involve the BRA process, and some of the back-room dealings that often take place. The loss of the Gaiety Theatre and the current state of the site is a good example.

I recently asked Shirley if there's a particular "brand" of architecture that she's opposed to in Boston, and she said not really. I think she only wants buildings that are properly scaled (meaning here may be a point of departure) and that they obey the rules of the street to enhance the public realm.

In the case of this specific project, I think the form and scale of the tower are just fine. The issues that need to be addressed here are all around the way the building meets the ground. Does it embrace the pedestrian, or give him/her the Heisman? If we can get that right (the current state could use some improvement) it would transform Copley Square.

I am not so sure...Also, Druker himself is listed as a Director of the Back Bay Association, which probably has a direct or indirect effect on the official position of the Back Bay Association towards his Shreve proposal.

The Druker proposal isn't referenced in Meg's piece. That said, yikes.

 

[commuter guy]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Meg refers to the Shreve proposal as "350 Boylston" in her article and cites it as one of the projects NABB has opposed.

I too think the article is well written. I'm with Meg and the Back Bay Assoc. on the Copley Place tower and I would probably agree with their position on 9/10 projects. But she lumps the Shreve building in with the other proposals. Meg advances the idea that the opposition to the Shreve building is more of the same NIMBY anti-development opposition. Most on this board would consider that a mischaracterization. The Shreve proposal is distinct in that it is total rubbish and has upset so many on this board with pro-development leanings.

I'll side with her when her organization supports projects that improve the urban environment in Boston and oppose her on bad proposals. Its nothing personal toward Meg - she's just doing her job and following the orders. The organization primary purpose is to advance Back Bay business interests and if good urban planning happens to get in the way of a proposed project, on occasion, well that's not going to be a deal breaker for them.

 

[Chessplayer]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

The organization primary purpose is to advance Back Bay business interests and if good urban planning happens to get in the way of a proposed project, on occasion, well that's not going to be a deal breaker for them.

If only they could be convinced that could urban planning is good business.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Guys lets try to keep the SC&L talk in the other thread.

 

[smartbuildboston]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Here's what happens with architecture in Boston. 1. An architect designs a building 2. the community, nonarchitects, comment and essentially change the building's design 3. developers just want to get building, so they go with a modified plan 4. the BRA then makes more changes 5. a nonarchitect-designed building gets approved and built 6. many people complain. After fighting AGAINST height, they say it takes up the whole sidewalk. Quoting Marty Walz, "WE" want a better building, but who is better to design that building, a state rep. or a professionally trained architect?

 

[Lurker]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Given the quality of local architects and politicians these days, preferably neither.

 

[Bubbybu]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

"but who is better to design that building, a state rep. or a professionally trained architect?"




in theory that should be correct....but it isn't in reality unfortunately

The Mandarin Oriental is proof....

'architectural intention' is not synonymous with aesthetic potential

$$$ and a lack of imagination is usually the cause of that...

CBT can claim the Mandarin is how it 'should be' but that doesn't absolve it from basic standards of quality and response in comparision to other structures...

On the other hand if a developer demands a structure that turns out to be quite bland; a firm can't entirely be blamed for an inadequate design. They can be blamed for a lack of standards though.

 

[ablarc]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

...who is better to design that building, a state rep. or a professionally trained architect?

These days architects are just stenographers in the court of public opinion.

 

[JimboJones]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Are you suggesting architects are better at urban planning than state reps / homeowners / community activists?

 

[statler]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Of course they are! Just look at Government Center!

This pendulum swings both ways. Hopefully it will find it's center. Or even better, we'll have another Haussmann in place on the next swing towards professionalism

 

[riffgo]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

These days architects are just stenographers in the court of public opinion.

I have to agree....and there's the client's culpability as well. Some people have no aesthetic ethics at all. I'll take a client with bad taste over a client with no taste anytime. At least with bad taste, an effort has been made to acquire some taste, and that can be corrected. It's those with no sense of aesthetics that are hopeless.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

Questions remain about Copley plan
Architect must address BRA, public concerns

By Justin A. Rice, Globe Correspondent | November 9, 2008

A futuristic 47-story glass residential tower - the final piece of Copley Place - could soon reach into the sky above an expanded Neiman Marcus store, but first architects have to answer the public's comments and the BRA's questions on the project.

The project, now moving into a new phase of the permitting process, would be the city's tallest residential building.

Besides the full-service luxury condo tower, tentatively called the Residences at Copley Place, the development would include a 50 percent larger Neiman Marcus store and an enclosed winter garden on the open plaza at Dartmouth and Stuart streets.

Late last month, Elkus Manfredi Architects of Boston received a report from the Boston Redevelopment Authority outlining community feedback and asking for additional information about the project, after giving notice to the agency in June of its intent to expand the urban shopping gallery, which was built in the 1980s over the Massachusetts Turnpike and bought by Simon Property Group Inc. about five years ago.

"We have received the official project scoping and determination, which compiles all of the [public's] letters and concerns the BRA may have," said Rob Halter, an architect from Elkus Manfredi. "We're just starting to go through it, and we'll address all the comments in it."

Of the roughly 30 letters included in the BRA document, 10 expressed support and 10 were opposed to the project as it was presented during a July 15 public meeting.

Proponents applaud the 250 to 270 permanent and 1,700 construction jobs along with the project's modern design, including replacing Neiman Marcus's barren granite walls in the Southwest Corridor Park with a glass facade.

Detractors say the project would congest an already tightly packed neighborhood and the 569-foot building would create wind tunnels and cast shadows on Copley Square and the Commonwealth Avenue Mall.

"We believe that a tower height of nearly 600 feet will have unacceptable environmental effects on the surrounding public, residential, and commercial areas," states a letter to the BRA from the Neighborhood Association of the Back Bay. "This represents our single strongest objection to the plan for the expansion at Copley Place."

The BRA also requested additional wind and shadow studies. A qualitative wind study has already determined that the tower wouldn't create "dangerous or unacceptable winds," and an initial shadow study suggests Copley Square would only be shaded by the tower during the winter for a couple of hours each day.

But the BRA wants to know if the tower would cast shadows on any public open spaces for more than two hours from 8 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on any day from March 21 to Sept. 21.

Architects hope to fulfill the BRA's requests by early next year and complete the permitting process in six to nine months, break ground a year from now, and open for business three years afterward.

In the meantime, architects and developers have already tweaked the project's original plan with help from the Community Advisory Committee. The 11-member board consisting of South End and Back Bay residents and public officials, known as the CAC, is chaired by Judith Wright.

"A building like that affects all of us," Wright said. "It affects my neighborhood a lot, so I wanted to be able to be a voice of the neighborhood."

The most significant result of the CAC's eight meetings was setting back the tower's entrance at Stuart and Dartmouth streets from the original 7 feet from the curb to 15 feet.

"The tower itself was pulled back and rotated so it doesn't sit directly out on the corner," Halter said. "They were concerned that having the tower so close to the street would just be too imposing."

The southwest corner of Stuart and Dartmouth streets will be the site of a glassed-in winter garden, replacing the paved entry plaza to Neiman Marcus. But the CAC thought that it looked too much like a lobby, Halter said. To address that, Halter's group incorporated softer materials and textures, increased the size and density of planters, and are looking into incorporating a flower shop or coffee cart.

"The types of things that invite people in to sit down and take a break whether you're shopping or not," Halter said.

The CAC, which will meet at 8 a.m. on Nov. 19 in the fourth floor conference room at Copley Place, is gearing up to tackle issues concerning wind and the feasibility of adding new retail space on Dartmouth Street. Wright said the CAC will meet at least eight more times before making its recommendations to the BRA.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/11/09/questions_remain_about_copley_plan/

 

[Bubbybu]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

In terms of belonging to that local Elkus/Manfredi-CBT classy but nothing earth shattering ilk....this building looks terrific, especially in the skyline rendering

in this location, shadows shouldnt be too much of an issue should they?

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

This is what the shadows will look like when it'll affect Copley Square the most.

 

[Bubbybu]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

thanks!

is that gray line the building's winter shadow?

if so it doesn't hurt much of anything....a little bit more of the copley plaza will be covered but that area is already sunlight deprived....

do you have anything for summer?

 

[buju b]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

My knowledge of all things celestial is not very strong, but with the sun lower in the sky in the winter, wouldn't shadows be more transient? Also, in the winter, it is colder anyway, so the shadow on top of it is not going to cause people to not wear a tank top, right?

 

[KentXie]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

The only good thing coming out of this shadow argument is that towers are require to become sleeker and thinner making it less squat. The problem is that they are overdoing it and before you know it, everything we build is a 500ft toothpick with one residential unit per floor. And the congestion issue. Clearly they don't know well enough about their neighborhood. Otherwise they would have known that the Orange Line/Commuter Rail/Amtrak with parking lots are located right across the street and the Copley Station is just a block down from where the site of this tower is proposed. Use public transit and not cars.

 

[Patriots_1228]

Re: Copley Place plan calls for condo tower

so now towers can create dangerous winds? the death toll in new york must be in the millions.