Copper Mill Development | Elm Street and Grove Street | Davis Square

[chrisbrat]

losing mckinnon's would be a blow, but the absolute fucking CRIME against the area and its character would be the loss of sligo (which, unless i'm completely misreading things, would happen). i really hope the powers the be nix this project.

 

[Dr. Rosen Rosen]

It's 10 storefronts if you include the Burren, and this is easily along the most active stretch of Davis, with a few local's favorites included, and apart from Kung Fu Tea, they're all local small businesses.

If this has storefronts sitting empty with a 9-5 lab building, the square loses a lot of its life. They've committed to "assisting existing businesses," but they've been very vague so far as to what that means.

Fair. I guess I’m assuming the new storefronts won’t sit empty. and yes please god whatever they will be, don’t let them be banks. I still cringe when I go through Inman and see BoA where Ryles was.

 

[Charlie_mta]

Thinking way outside the box, but just as there is often a requirement for low-income units in new housing developments, how about a city requirement for lower rent on some of the ground floor retail units? This would enable more variety in retail tenants.

 

[ant8904]

losing mckinnon's would be a blow, but the absolute fucking CRIME against the area and its character would be the loss of sligo (which, unless i'm completely misreding things, would happen). i really hope the powers the be nix this project.

I am annoyed at this piece of info - https://digboston.com/davis-square-developer-plans-lab-space-as-small-businesses-await-unknown-fate/

Particularly at this quote

Meanwhile, Somerville officials are positive about the Scape development, citing public support.

On the Davis SQ FB, I would describe it as outright hostile (and it is notable I think Davis Sq FB group is more supportive for development and we shouldn't lump it with more stereotypical neighborhood forums of being strong NIMBYs where the more generous groups accept develops... of single family houses).

Event on this forum, a forum where its founding basis is support towards development and architecture, I would describe the response on this developed as "concerned".

I'm pretty sure anyone who patrons Singos or Mckinnons don't want to see them gone. That's a lot of people.

So my point is, who is giving "positive" responses? Which official is claiming that? If they are going to build this thing regardless, fine, it's their private property as long it doesn't break our codes and laws. But don't gaslight that this project is well supported by the neighborhood.

 

[393b40]

So my point is, who is giving "positive" responses? Which official is claiming that? If they are going to build this thing regardless, fine, it's their private property as long it doesn't break our codes and laws. But don't gaslight that this project is well supported by the neighborhood.

Realistically, its the 80 year old senior citizens that shows up at the meetings to voice support because it will clean out those noisy and dirty bars

 

[Texasian]

So my point is, who is giving "positive" responses? Which official is claiming that? If they are going to build this thing regardless, fine, it's their private property as long it doesn't break our codes and laws. But don't gaslight that this project is well supported by the neighborhood.

Easy, the folks who care to actually attend the community meetings. Folks complaining on facebook doesn't play unless those folks take the time out of their day to sit through the community meetings and then offer a comment during the comment/Q&A period.

 

[chrisbrat]

I am annoyed at this piece of info - https://digboston.com/davis-square-developer-plans-lab-space-as-small-businesses-await-unknown-fate/

Particularly at this quote



On the Davis SQ FB, I would describe it as outright hostile (and it is notable I think Davis Sq FB group is more supportive for development and we shouldn't lump it with more stereotypical neighborhood forums of being strong NIMBYs where the more generous groups accept develops... of single family houses).

Event on this forum, a forum where its founding basis is support towards development and architecture, I would describe the response on this developed as "concerned".

I'm pretty sure anyone who patrons Singos or Mckinnons don't want to see them gone. That's a lot of people.

So my point is, who is giving "positive" responses? Which official is claiming that? If they are going to build this thing regardless, fine, it's their private property as long it doesn't break our codes and laws. But don't gaslight that this project is well supported by the neighborhood.

Realistically, its the 80 year old senior citizens that shows up at the meetings to voice support because it will clean out those noisy and dirty bars

sligo's been there for 77 years. those 80 year old senior citizens have lived alongside it for their entire existence. none of the other bars in davis even vaguely qualify as "dirty" (or noisy).

 

[ant8904]

Realistically, its the 80 year old senior citizens that shows up at the meetings to voice support because it will clean out those noisy and dirty bars

Easy, the folks who care to actually attend the community meetings. Folks complaining on facebook doesn't play unless those folks take the time out of their day to sit through the community meetings and then offer a comment during the comment/Q&A period.

I have to say that's speculative. Isn't the typical stereotype of the community meeting with 80 year old senior citizens is they are against absolutely any development? Though your likely rebuttal is this the one case that's different because killing off bars is desirable than development, it's again still speculative.

But the biggest issue than just claiming "we don't actually participate, just complain on the internet" is, while I have to have leave a caveat that I did not follow every single community meeting over the past several years, here's the minutes of the two of the more recent meetings that have taken public comment

https://www.somervillema.gov/sites/default/files/Neighborhood%20Meeting%201%20Report.pdf

https://www.somervillema.gov/sites/default/files/Neighborhood%20Meeting%202%20Report.pdf

Admittedly, it's hard to read through a wall of text, but I believe if you do read it, I think the mood of the comments is "apprehensive" at best. Honestly, I would say it sounds similar to the tone of this thread (versus the FB group which is almost unanimously hostile) - recognition of the value of urbanism, but concern of sterilization. Maybe there's an 80-ish year old in that comments somewhere voicing enthusiastic report, I think I can safely say that the claim that the "positive" feedback the Somverille Official claims is because the meeting is full of old people giving the one time they enthusiastic support to a development while nobody else showed up is incorrect.

 

[Equilibria]

The problem is that Scape, owning the lots, can simply raise the rent and drive the businesses out. Heck - the uncertainty may do that for them. Then what is currently a quirky and lovable strip of local businesses becomes a deteriorated set of eyesores, and Scape can sail through to replacing them. In essence, this is what happened at SC&L.

Whether this is built or not doesn't matter (though it should have been housing, not lab). What matters is whether Scape can be forced to take below-market rents for the tenants who want to come back as a community benefit, given the absurd rents they'll surely get upstairs. If they could hold off the queer community on Boylston Street I'm sure they can hold back the Sligo fans.

 

[chumbolly]

... but the absolute fucking CRIME against the area and its character would be the loss of sligo....

My knowledge of Sligo's hasn't been updated since my last time in there in 1994 (the only other bars in Davis at the time, Redbones and Johnny D's, carded), but is Sligo's a popular place now? 30 years ago it was not exactly jumping.

 

[chrisbrat]

My knowledge of Sligo's hasn't been updated since my last time in there in 1994 (the only other bars in Davis at the time, Redbones and Johnny D's, carded), but is Sligo's a popular place now? 30 years ago it was not exactly jumping.

it's annoyingly popular with tufts kids who "discovered" it a few years back, enjoy roughing/slumming it, and pack the place every thursday-saturday night.

during the day and most weeknights it's still sligo's, though (not necessarily super crowded to capacity, but hardly empty).

 

[Czervik.Construction]

When I was a kid, Davis was an absolute pit. No character or gritty charm, just a dump. We would go to Teddy's shoes and then to McDonald's across the street if things were good. It has been cleaned up and mildly up for 20 years now, IMO. So, a project like this I find surprising it has taken until now to propose.

 

[393b40]

I've always enjoyed Sligo's for a cheap beer and fairly quiet talk-oriented atmosphere. It's where I hit up when I want to meet up with folks in Davis and want to be able to hear what they are saying. That said, never been in there really on Thurs/Fri/Sat night or if I have I don't remember it.

 

[chumbolly]

it's annoyingly popular with tufts kids who "discovered" it a few years back, enjoy roughing/slumming it, and pack the place every thursday-saturday night.

That's funny. I was a tufts kid in 1994 and it definitely was not on students' radar then, but I went there a few times because they didn't ask for ID. The record definitely skipped a groove when I walked in there, but it was a friendly enough place.

 

[Charlie_mta]

When I was a kid, Davis was an absolute pit. No character or gritty charm, just a dump. We would go to Teddy's shoes and then to McDonald's across the street if things were good. It has been cleaned up and mildly up for 20 years now, IMO. So, a project like this I find surprising it has taken until now to propose.

Interesting. When I was a kid back in the 1950s/early 60s Davis Square was a major shopping center, with two large department stores, Parke Snow and Gorins, plus a Woolworths and a Grants. I grew up in North Cambridge and we would walk everywhere, to go to church, to do grocery shopping, and walk up to Davis Square to shop for school clothes, etc. mostly at the Parke Snow store. Also of course a group of us N Cambridge Jefferson Park project kids would walk to the Davis Square movie theater on Saturday afternoons for 1950s monster movies and westerns at 25 cents. When the Porter Square shopping center opened (around 1960?) it stole a bit of Davis Square's thunder. By the 70s the department stores closed down as the car culture took over and people drove further out to shop. I was lucky to grow up in an urban environment and a time when everything I needed was in walking distance, or if not, a quick bus or subway ride away.

 

[DZH22]

I feel like Sligo is one of those bars that everybody living in the area checks out between 1-3 times, then never goes back. That was certainly my experience living in Davis. It's a novelty worth experiencing to knock it off your list, but that's about it.

 

[fattony]

I’m a Davis Square resident and I’m mostly in favor of this development.

Sligo will never be the same, but that’s how dive bars work. Some other hole in some other wall will be the next dive. It won’t be right on this block of Elm. I will miss Sligo.

McKinnons is, IMO, not a special or desirable market. Their quality is extremely low and the only redeeming factor is the low price. I’m always surprised by people’s love for it. It’s just not good and with BFresh across the street, it’s not something the square NEEDS. I respect that folks might disagree, but Davis is definitely not some food desert with Mckinnon’s as the only grocer. I can imagine them relocating without much trouble.

Dragon will relocate and be just fine. I love Dragon’s food and the people are great, but the space is not nice.

What Davis Square needs in the urbanism mix is some daytime employees. It isn’t a pure residential area right now, but it’s extremely weak on employment. 3-5 medium office buildings or labs would be a big boon for morning, daytime, and after work commerce and would add a lot to the urban vibe of Davis. Making it more like Central maybe. Nightlife, dining, and shopping are all present but could use some more customers. Of course more residential would be great too, but Davis is DENSE already and the T station gets crushed with Boston and Cambridge commuters. Would be nice if there were some passengers going the reverse direction with Davis as their destination in the morning.

 

[ant8904]

Btw, today is the Somerville Planning Board Meeting. Including the hearing for the lab is on the agenda.

It starts at 6 PM. It is virtual.

Planning Board Meeting

Pursuant to Chapter 22 of the Acts of 2022, this meeting of the Planning Board will be conducted via remote participation. An audio recording of these proceedings will be available upon request to planning@somervillema.gov. TO USE A COMPUTER Link...

www.somervillema.gov

 

[as02143]

The only design piece I have is that I really hate the curved corner - i am a big fan of the chamfered corners of the Barcelona blocks. Even with a curved corner, at sidewalk level, there's very little positive effect for people walking by this building. With a chamfered corner, even somewhat severe, you enhance sight lines for people walking up to the intersection. It also creates this kinda cool 'eddy' effect where people feel comfortable hanging out for a moment at the street corner without feeling like they're blocking the flow of pedestrian traffic. I don't think it would matter in this specific case, but, in some cases, i think it could help with driver sight lines too.

 

[Dr. Rosen Rosen]

Update

Davis Square in Somerville is about to look different, but not everything is changing

UK dorm developer Scape Development is building a 4-story lab in Davis Square, replacing existing businesses with new commercial space.

www.wickedlocal.com