Copper Mill Development | Elm Street and Grove Street | Davis Square

theSil said:
As depicted on page 7 of the deck, the existing site has 10 storefronts on Elm. This seems to propose 8 storefronts on Elm + a building lobby + 1 more storefront around the corner on Grove. (It's a little confusing, but I think the A-J numbering is just counting the facades, not the the number of retail units.)

Hopefully this was discussed in the community meeting, but it's crucial that this development preserves as many retail spaces along Elm as possible. If it gets cut down further, it'll be a major loss for the main pedestrian thoroughfare of Davis.

Also RIP The Burren I guess :(
Click to expand...
It has been discussed - reading the community meeting notes, there are some promising remarks from the Developer.

Hydrobus said:
Looking at the renders I dont really understand why they have to demolish that whole history. The big residential tower is going to mostly be on a parking lot in back anyway (and a section of what looks like the back room of the Burren? I guess its OK if they demo that. ) And theres a street there they can load materials from to that parking lot. If its gonna be a mid-rise lab, well that just looks horrible and they should'nt do it especially where theres a massive oversupply of lab right now and many other lab projects and new development areas in the pipeline.
Click to expand...
I believe the lab "proposal" was the previous proposal that, based on the community meeting notes, has been thrown in the trash.
 
theSil said:
As depicted on page 7 of the deck, the existing site has 10 storefronts on Elm. This seems to propose 8 storefronts on Elm + a building lobby + 1 more storefront around the corner on Grove. (It's a little confusing, but I think the A-J numbering is just counting the facades, not the the number of retail units.)

Hopefully this was discussed in the community meeting, but it's crucial that this development preserves as many retail spaces along Elm as possible. If it gets cut down further, it'll be a major loss for the main pedestrian thoroughfare of Davis.

Also RIP The Burren I guess :(
Click to expand...
Actually, very much not. Scape was pressured into promising them space in the new development, and in the community meeting notes they mention that the owners of the Burren are very actively engaged, even beyond them wanting to bring the current business back as much as possible. In the Burren's case, the plan seems to be for them to effectively relocate to a new second restaurant in the former Christopher's space in Porter, then re-open the Burren back in Davis in the new building. They were going to do the second one anyway, so this is actually convenient.

www.cambridgeday.com

Pair behind Burren in Davis Square are buying Toad and Christopher's, to become McCarthy’s - Cambridge Day

The Christopher’s Restaurant & Bar and attached Toad nightclub in Cambridge are set to change hands after a sale fell through in the fall. The new buyers will likely be exciting to many: They're the owners of The Burren in Somerville’s Davis Square.
www.cambridgeday.com www.cambridgeday.com
 
Here is the current massing difference between the original lab proposal and the updated residential proposal. I'm surprised this juxtaposition wasn't posted earlier as it would have been useful to the conversation.

1733504142343.png
 
themissinglink said:
www.bostonglobe.com

In Davis Square, proposed tower prompts . . . a war of anonymous fliers - The Boston Globe

A battle over the future of one of the most quintessential neighborhood business districts in the Boston area is being waged via DIY posters.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
View attachment 59623
Click to expand...
I've got to give it to Andrew Flynn, he has chutzpah. He intentionally didn't render views that would show how big his project would be, and when someone else did it for him, he manages to sound genuinely offended.

Buddy, it's a 25-story skyscraper in a neighborhood where the tallest buildings are 4 stories. It's going to be big, no matter how "bad" you think the design of the massing model is. You tried to underinform the community, but the community isn't stupid, and someone did what any of us can do in 2025: model your project for you. I replicated the high-rise portion of your massing model in Google Earth, put my street view at the same corner as the "canard" rendering, and got basically the same thing.

Also, "Developers who actually listen to the community"?! I'd put a hundred bucks on it being Andrew who printed these self-congratulatory flyers off at his house and went around the neighborhood throwing them up. "Even if you don't, they will", particularly when I suspect that language is coming from the developer himself, is not public discourse as healthy as the Globe presents it.

1737643705314.png
 
Equilibria said:
I've got to give it to Andrew Flynn, he has chutzpah. He intentionally didn't render views that would show how big his project would be, and when someone else did it for him, he manages to sound genuinely offended.

Buddy, it's a 25-story skyscraper in a neighborhood where the tallest buildings are 4 stories. It's going to be big, no matter how "bad" you think the design of the massing model is. You tried to underinform the community, but the community isn't stupid, and someone did what any of us can do in 2025: model your project for you. I replicated the high-rise portion of your massing model in Google Earth, put my street view at the same corner as the "canard" rendering, and got basically the same thing.

Also, "Developers who actually listen to the community"?! I'd put a hundred bucks on it being Andrew who printed these self-congratulatory flyers off at his house and went around the neighborhood throwing them up. "Even if you don't, they will", particularly when I suspect that language is coming from the developer himself, is not public discourse as healthy as the Globe presents it.

View attachment 59631
Click to expand...
My read from gleaming the Cambridge Day, the Somerville and Medford subreddits, and various Facebook groups - the general vibe seems to be neutral to supportive. No one in the Davis Sq area seems to qualm with the idea that a large residential building (even someone getting support for, could it be higher?) is what fits best in Davis (vs other neighborhoods - like Teele or even by Tufts).
 
as02143 said:
My read from gleaming the Cambridge Day, the Somerville and Medford subreddits, and various Facebook groups - the general vibe seems to be neutral to supportive. No one in the Davis Sq area seems to qualm with the idea that a large residential building (even someone getting support for, could it be higher?) is what fits best in Davis (vs other neighborhoods - like Teele or even by Tufts).
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think the discourse has shifted a lot to the point where many people (especially those under the age of 40) openly talk about how absurd it is that both Porter and Davis are essentially all low to mid-rise at best. Both ideally should have multiple resi towers given the state of the housing crisis in Camberville and the stated transit and climate goals of Cambridge, Somerville, and the Commonwealth.
 
#bancars said:
Yeah, I think the discourse has shifted a lot to the point where many people (especially those under the age of 40) openly talk about how absurd it is that both Porter and Davis are essentially all low to mid-rise at best. Both ideally should have multiple resi towers given the state of the housing crisis in Camberville and the stated transit and climate goals of Cambridge, Somerville, and the Commonwealth.
Click to expand...
I don't oppose the height knee-jerk, but I'd rather see towers at Porter and Alewife before Davis. Davis has a low-rise character that works (unlike Union, for instance, which has a low-rise character because the taller buildings were replaced with parking lots and ugly strips).
 
Equilibria said:
I don't oppose the height knee-jerk, but I'd rather see towers at Porter and Alewife before Davis. Davis has a low-rise character that works (unlike Union, for instance, which has a low-rise character because the taller buildings were replaced with parking lots and ugly strips).
Click to expand...

Bingo. Davis is already a near-perfect urban environment. I'm all for housing and height in general, but I don't want to saddle the neighborhood with all the loading docks, garages, and national retail chains that will inevitably result if we turn Davis into Kendall. By all means, build three stories of new housing above the existing single-story retail plots, but any significant height added to Davis should follow the Coolidge model of tucking the towers on the periphery of the commercial center, so they don't ruin an already outstanding urban fabric.
 
I'd already call this semi-periphery, given that this is going to occupy the otherwise rather messy parking lot facing Grove. Even if that facing includes a garage entry ramp, loading dock and other auxiliary ground level uses, I'd say it'd be a net improvement for Davis urbanism - it'd be really hard to need more curb cut that already exists.

That said, it just feels super invasive since it involves significant "cultural" parts of what is already a fairly small commercial core in Davis - the Burren, ex-Sligo, McKinnon's are each part of Davis's identity in a way many other parts of Davis aren't. I don't disagree that this site in particular has the potential to change the "feel" of Davis, but I think Davis at large needs something like this. If a redevelopment were to be proposed across Grove, to occupy the Painted Burro (which is now a chain) Downtown liquor, Eat Greek spaces and parking lot, I feel like you'd get much less neighborhood backlash from non-abutters. Same for the 7th Spoke project - people won't care about the Starbucks & Chipotle.
 
No way it is a "near-perfect urban environment" where someone who works there can't afford to live there. Build it.

Also, I didn't realize that the developer was proposing a featureless black obelisk. No wonder he didn't want to render it!
 
@Equilibria , I suspect you know this but "I don't oppose it, BUT xyz" reads: "I oppose it" - just say it. Its ok!
"Tried to underinform....", really?
Is your permitting expectation that anyone proposing something should daylight everything anyone could reasonably object to? I'd agree it would be fascinating to see such a filing, one would probably title it "Here is My Idea and All the Reasons it's Bad".

"Consensus is we need more housing, consensus is build it anywhere else but here" hasn't been working.
 
Rosarino said:
@Equilibria , I suspect you know this but "I don't oppose it, BUT xyz" reads: "I oppose it" - just say it. Its ok!
"Tried to underinform....", really?
Is your permitting expectation that anyone proposing something should daylight everything anyone could reasonably object to? I'd agree it would be fascinating to see such a filing, one would probably title it "Here is My Idea and All the Reasons it's Bad".

"Consensus is we need more housing, consensus is build it anywhere else but here" hasn't been working.
Click to expand...
Your condescension really adds a lot to the conversation. Thanks!

The filing you refer to is called an "Environmental Impact Statement", and they are indeed required.
 
I like that they’re leaving room for multiple retail establishments.

It’ll be sad losing the back of Dragon Pizza though. It’s been a nice place to sit outside and eat/drink/talk in the summer.
 
Blackbird said:
I like that they’re leaving room for multiple retail establishments.

It’ll be sad losing the back of Dragon Pizza though. It’s been a nice place to sit outside and eat/drink/talk in the summer.
Click to expand...

I tried a couple things from there, and thought the food (particularly pizza) was better back when it was known as Christo's. My favorite of the semi-local slices to there is Harvard House of Pizza, on Mass Ave between Porter and Harvard Squares. The square slices at Leone's and Pinocchio's are also really good but I think of square pizza as more of a novelty.

The slices at Mortadella Head are supposed to be good but when I tried them they were reheated poorly. From what I remember the dough was hot but the cheese was still cold, one of the worst slices I have ever had.

Mike's is obviously terrible and Domino's is Domino's.

EDIT: Angelina's in Teele is pretty decent, like a poor-man's Regina's. Armando's in Cambridge has solid/huge slices but isn't super convenient.
 
Last edited:
Equilibria said:
Your condescension really adds a lot to the conversation. Thanks!

The filing you refer to is called an "Environmental Impact Statement", and they are indeed required.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the acknowledgement of the effort although I admit it falls short of the condescension of your google earth tutorial.
Not so much on EIS, shadow study...sure - massing views that satisfy the desires of your heart, negative.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top