COVID-19 in Boston

[Patrick Winn]

well if you want to cite to an actual source that shows hospitals are near capacity state wide I’m happy to look at it. Of course you can’t because that isn’t true. I just posted the states data showing hospitalizations. You must be one of those people that thinks kids shouldn’t be in school either. Interesting how people can ignore statistic when it suits them. Looking forward to you posting a source to back up here theory.

 

[kmp1284]

well if you want to cite to an actual source that shows hospitals are near capacity state wide I’m happy to look at it. Of course you can’t because that isn’t true. I just posted the states data showing hospitalizations. You must be one of those people that thinks kids shouldn’t be in school either. Interesting how people can ignore statistic when it suits them. Looking forward to you posting a source to back up here theory.

I provided a source and whether you want to believe that source is entirely your prerogative. If you have a source that runs counter to mine then go ahead and share it.

I'm the type who on matters of public health and medicine in general defers to the informed opinions and experience of physicians and public health leaders. I don't have an opinion on whether children should be in school other than to say that if those decisions are made in consultation with experts then I have no reason to question them.

 

[George_Apley]

The Mayor said in his announcement today about COVID rates in the city that adult non-surg ICU beds in city hospitals are at 93% capacity.

Walsh extends COVID-19 pause in Boston, warns of more restrictions

BOSTON (WHDH) - Mayor Martin J. Walsh on Tuesday announced that Boston will be extending its COVID-19 closures and restrictions for at least another three...

whdh.com

 

[jklo]

The hospitalization rate increase seems to be slowing, so Boston looks okay albeit that is getting tight.

Easiest thing to do is to get the vaccine into 60+ ASAP. Or really anybody.

 

[Patrick Winn]

I provided a source and whether you want to believe that source is entirely your prerogative. If you have a source that runs counter to mine then go ahead and share it.

I'm the type who on matters of public health and medicine in general defers to the informed opinions and experience of physicians and public health leaders. I don't have an opinion on whether children should be in school other than to say that if those decisions are made in consultation with experts then I have no reason to question them.

Just scroll up. I took a screenshot of the total Covid hospitalizations in Massachusetts. As reported by mass.gov. It shows about 2000 currently hospitalized with Covid in MA as opposed to about 4000 last March. So no, we are not close to hitting capacity in our hospitals. You posted a list of a few hospitals in Massachusetts as reported by the New York Times who got their data from the federal government who got their data from Massachusetts. Even if the statistics were correct, which I doubt, it does not support your premise that hospitals are reaching capacity. As to schools, the experts unanimously agree the children pose little threat of spreading Covid and no threat of dying from it. Every public health expert has said children should be learning in person. Another area where the “follow the science” folks become selectively deaf.

 

[kmp1284]

Just scroll up. I took a screenshot of the total Covid hospitalizations in Massachusetts. As reported by mass.gov. It shows about 2000 currently hospitalized with Covid in MA as opposed to about 4000 last March. So no, we are not close to hitting capacity in our hospitals. You posted a list of a few hospitals in Massachusetts as reported by the New York Times who got their data from the federal government who got their data from Massachusetts. Even if the statistics were correct, which I doubt, it does not support your premise that hospitals are reaching capacity. As to schools, the experts unanimously agree the children pose little threat of spreading Covid and no threat of dying from it. Every public health expert has said children should be learning in person. Another area where the “follow the science” folks become selectively deaf.

That's a completely different statistic - total hospitalizations ≠ ICU capacity. In the spring many hospitals added beds and resorted to aggressive and financially ruinous measures like canceling all elective surgeries to keep beds available(as they are again now). Besides, it doesn’t matter how many regular med-surg beds are available if what’s needed is ICU beds.

As of yesterday:
Med-surg beds: 86% occupied statewide with 85% in Boston region
ICU beds: 75% occupied statewide with 85% in Boston region

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-response-reporting

Also, experts are not in agreement on the risk of children spreading the virus ...

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...ildren-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

 

[George_Apley]

Schools will be as safe (for staff in particular) as the community that houses them.

 

[Patrick Winn]

That's a completely different statistic - total hospitalizations ≠ ICU capacity. In the spring many hospitals added beds and resorted to aggressive and financially ruinous measures like canceling all elective surgeries to keep beds available(as they are again now). Besides, it doesn’t matter how many regular med-surg beds are available if what’s needed is ICU beds.

As of yesterday:
Med-surg beds: 86% occupied statewide with 85% in Boston region
ICU beds: 75% occupied statewide with 85% in Boston region

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-response-reporting

Also, experts are not in agreement on the risk of children spreading the virus ...

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...ildren-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

The doctors I know were outraged by this article because they inexplicably define child as 0 to 22 years of age. A 22 yr old child? The data is way different for 19 to 22-year-olds. The bottom line is elementary school kids do not transmit this in any significant way and everybody in the goddamn world knows it.

 

[Patrick Winn]

That's a completely different statistic - total hospitalizations ≠ ICU capacity. In the spring many hospitals added beds and resorted to aggressive and financially ruinous measures like canceling all elective surgeries to keep beds available(as they are again now). Besides, it doesn’t matter how many regular med-surg beds are available if what’s needed is ICU beds.

As of yesterday:
Med-surg beds: 86% occupied statewide with 85% in Boston region
ICU beds: 75% occupied statewide with 85% in Boston region

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-response-reporting

Also, experts are not in agreement on the risk of children spreading the virus ...

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...ildren-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

Guess this threat never materialized huh. Shocker.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

The doctors I know were outraged by this article because they inexplicably define child as 0 to 22 years of age. A 22 yr old child? The data is way different for 19 to 22-year-olds. The bottom line is elementary school kids do not transmit this in any significant way and everybody in the goddamn world knows it.

But you're not going to cite any of that data for your self- victory lap. Just "everybody in the goddamn world knows it." Mmm'kay.

 

[JumboBuc]

The doctors I know were outraged by this article because they inexplicably define child as 0 to 22 years of age. A 22 yr old child? The data is way different for 19 to 22-year-olds. The bottom line is elementary school kids do not transmit this in any significant way and everybody in the goddamn world knows it.

There's no hard and fast cut-off for where pediatrics ends and adult medicine begins, but 22 years of age is one commonly used threshold. Many people in their early 20s (especially college students) are still seen by pediatricians and considered to be part of the pediatric patient population. When people in their late-teens to early-20s show up at hospitals they are often triaged through pediatric emergency rooms and admitted to pediatric wards. So that's where the 22-year old threshold in that article comes from, it's not "inexplicably define[d]."

But your point is still taken that when it comes to spreading the virus and the relative risks and benefits of in-person school, there is a HUGE difference between elementary / grade school and high school / college. Lumping all pediatric patients together as one doesn't capture this distinction.

See, e.g.,

We Asked 175 Pediatric Disease Experts if It Was Safe Enough to Open School (Published 2021)

In many places, the debates over reopening are fraught. But in a survey, experts broadly agreed that elementary schools didn’t need vaccines to open safely.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Patrick Winn]

There's no hard and fast cut-off for where pediatrics ends and adult medicine begins, but 22 years of age is one commonly used threshold. Many people in their early 20s (especially college students) are still seen by pediatricians and considered to be part of the pediatric patient population. When people in their late-teens to early-20s show up at hospitals they are often triaged through pediatric emergency rooms and admitted to pediatric wards. So that's where the 22-year old threshold in that article comes from, it's not "inexplicably define[d]."

But your point is still taken that when it comes to spreading the virus and the relative risks and benefits of in-person school, there is a HUGE difference between elementary / grade school and high school / college. Lumping all pediatric patients together as one doesn't capture this distinction.

See, e.g.,

We Asked 175 Pediatric Disease Experts if It Was Safe Enough to Open School (Published 2021)

In many places, the debates over reopening are fraught. But in a survey, experts broadly agreed that elementary schools didn’t need vaccines to open safely.

www.nytimes.com

The problem is that the public isn’t generally aware of

There's no hard and fast cut-off for where pediatrics ends and adult medicine begins, but 22 years of age is one commonly used threshold. Many people in their early 20s (especially college students) are still seen by pediatricians and considered to be part of the pediatric patient population. When people in their late-teens to early-20s show up at hospitals they are often triaged through pediatric emergency rooms and admitted to pediatric wards. So that's where the 22-year old threshold in that article comes from, it's not "inexplicably define[d]."

But your point is still taken that when it comes to spreading the virus and the relative risks and benefits of in-person school, there is a HUGE difference between elementary / grade school and high school / college. Lumping all pediatric patients together as one doesn't capture this distinction.

See, e.g.,

We Asked 175 Pediatric Disease Experts if It Was Safe Enough to Open School (Published 2021)

In many places, the debates over reopening are fraught. But in a survey, experts broadly agreed that elementary schools didn’t need vaccines to open safely.

www.nytimes.com

There's no hard and fast cut-off for where pediatrics ends and adult medicine begins, but 22 years of age is one commonly used threshold. Many people in their early 20s (especially college students) are still seen by pediatricians and considered to be part of the pediatric patient population. When people in their late-teens to early-20s show up at hospitals they are often triaged through pediatric emergency rooms and admitted to pediatric wards. So that's where the 22-year old threshold in that article comes from, it's not "inexplicably define[d]."

But your point is still taken that when it comes to spreading the virus and the relative risks and benefits of in-person school, there is a HUGE difference between elementary / grade school and high school / college. Lumping all pediatric patients together as one doesn't capture this distinction.

See, e.g.,

We Asked 175 Pediatric Disease Experts if It Was Safe Enough to Open School (Published 2021)

In many places, the debates over reopening are fraught. But in a survey, experts broadly agreed that elementary schools didn’t need vaccines to open safely.

www.nytimes.com

my issue is with their use of the word “children”—not the cutoff age for pediatric treatment. The general public reads headlines with no sense of your clinical distinction and this was an epic piece of misinformation. Every teacher’s union in the state saw this as a reason not to open schools. We will pay for the abuse and neglect the actual children of this state have suffered for a long time to come.

There's no hard and fast cut-off for where pediatrics ends and adult medicine begins, but 22 years of age is one commonly used threshold. Many people in their early 20s (especially college students) are still seen by pediatricians and considered to be part of the pediatric patient population. When people in their late-teens to early-20s show up at hospitals they are often triaged through pediatric emergency rooms and admitted to pediatric wards. So that's where the 22-year old threshold in that article comes from, it's not "inexplicably define[d]."

But your point is still taken that when it comes to spreading the virus and the relative risks and benefits of in-person school, there is a HUGE difference between elementary / grade school and high school / college. Lumping all pediatric patients together as one doesn't capture this distinction.

See, e.g.,

We Asked 175 Pediatric Disease Experts if It Was Safe Enough to Open School (Published 2021)

In many places, the debates over reopening are fraught. But in a survey, experts broadly agreed that elementary schools didn’t need vaccines to open safely.

www.nytimes.com

thanks for article. Thought

But you're not going to cite any of that data for your self- victory lap. Just "everybody in the goddamn world knows it." Mmm'kay.

We Asked 175 Pediatric Disease Experts if It Was Safe Enough to Open School (Published 2021)

In many places, the debates over reopening are fraught. But in a survey, experts broadly agreed that elementary schools didn’t need vaccines to open safely.

www.nytimes.com

Courtesy of the gentleman who posted below. It’s public knowledge. Even Fauci said kids should be in school. I sense some willful blindness here.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Is there a reason why this thread has devolved into one person trying to single-handedly fight a whole room? Jesus Christ...tone down the vitriol about 7 notches. When you puff up sweeping pronouncements with "all"/"every" adjectives sauced with a few "goddamn every-" barbs, it is not unreasonable to expect to be asked for the occasional cite about who these unnamed "everypersons" are.

 

[Patrick Winn]

Is there a reason why this thread has devolved into one person trying to single-handedly fight a whole room? Jesus Christ...tone down the vitriol about 7 notches. When you puff up sweeping pronouncements with "all"/"every" adjectives sauced with a few "goddamn every-" barbs, it is not unreasonable to expect to be asked for the occasional cite about who these unnamed "everypersons" are.

Doctors

 

[Patrick Winn]

Doctors

I reposted an article backing up my position. Also worth noting that almost ever other developed country has kids in school full time. Florida never stopped in person learning and has average Covid rates. I guess I’m a bit irked that poor and minority kids are needlessly suffering physical and sexual abuse and irreparably falling behind in their education because the teachers unions own democrats and are a bigger lobby than the NRA. It’s shameful.

 

[Patrick Winn]

I reposted an article backing up my position. Also worth noting that almost ever other developed country has kids in school full time. Florida never stopped in person learning and has average Covid rates. I guess I’m a bit irked that poor and minority kids are needlessly suffering physical and sexual abuse and irreparably falling behind in their educations because the teachers unions own democrats and are a bigger lobby than the NRA. It’s shameful.
[/QUOTE
pretty disturbing https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/09/nation/reports-child-abuse-neglect-are-plummeting-across-new-england-thats-not-good-thing/?outputType=amp

 

[KentXie]

I reposted an article backing up my position. Also worth noting that almost ever other developed country has kids in school full time. Florida never stopped in person learning and has average Covid rates. I guess I’m a bit irked that poor and minority kids are needlessly suffering physical and sexual abuse and irreparably falling behind in their education because the teachers unions own democrats and are a bigger lobby than the NRA. It’s shameful.

Sorry to dig up an old post but excuse me? When are schools responsible for making sure kids are not suffering physical and sexual abuse from parents/guardians? It's fine that one of the benefit of schools is reducing child abuse but the problem falls squarely on society failing to provide proper funding to social programs in cities where the minorities make up a larger share of the populations and are much poorer than your wealthy white suburban neighborhood. It pisses me off how you are implying the blame for the increase in child abuse falls on the people not wanting to open up in school learning, on the teachers worried about their health and are concerned about holding in-person classes. My significant other works at a school and it's an absolute fucking shame that she has to put her health at risk working in a bio-hazard environment without hazard pay because half the fucking country thinks this disease is some sort of conspiracy and irresponsible parents continue to end their sick kids to school because they don't know how to be a parent. Why don't people who don't have to work in school, who don't have to put their health at risk, why don't we, kindly shut the fuck up and not speak for them? How about we don't put them blame on them for something they are not responsible for? How's that sound?

 

[Patrick Winn]

Sorry to dig up an old post but excuse me? When are schools responsible for making sure kids are not suffering physical and sexual abuse from parents/guardians? It's fine that one of the benefit of schools is reducing child abuse but the problem falls squarely on society failing to provide proper funding to social programs in cities where the minorities make up a larger share of the populations and are much poorer than your wealthy white suburban neighborhood. It pisses me off how you are implying the blame for the increase in child abuse falls on the people not wanting to open up in school learning, on the teachers worried about their health and are concerned about holding in-person classes. My significant other works at a school and it's an absolute fucking shame that she has to put her health at risk working in a bio-hazard environment without hazard pay because half the fucking country thinks this disease is some sort of conspiracy and irresponsible parents continue to end their sick kids to school because they don't know how to be a parent. Why don't people who don't have to work in school, who don't have to put their health at risk, why don't we, kindly shut the fuck up and not speak for them? How about we don't put them blame on them for something they are not responsible for? How's that sound?

Umm teachers are what they call MANDATED REPORTERS. So yes, it is their job to catch and report ongoing abuse to children, and it's something good teachers in poor neighborhoods do routinely. You must live under a rock, Kent. And hazard pay?? LOL. I worked through COVID in the courts and in the jails--in person, not by zoom--and hazard pay has never crossed my mind. The jails have FAR higher COVID positivity rates than schools, particularly elementary schools which have consistently had low levels of spread.

 

[Patrick Winn]

Sorry to dig up an old post but excuse me? When are schools responsible for making sure kids are not suffering physical and sexual abuse from parents/guardians? It's fine that one of the benefit of schools is reducing child abuse but the problem falls squarely on society failing to provide proper funding to social programs in cities where the minorities make up a larger share of the populations and are much poorer than your wealthy white suburban neighborhood. It pisses me off how you are implying the blame for the increase in child abuse falls on the people not wanting to open up in school learning, on the teachers worried about their health and are concerned about holding in-person classes. My significant other works at a school and it's an absolute fucking shame that she has to put her health at risk working in a bio-hazard environment without hazard pay because half the fucking country thinks this disease is some sort of conspiracy and irresponsible parents continue to end their sick kids to school because they don't know how to be a parent. Why don't people who don't have to work in school, who don't have to put their health at risk, why don't we, kindly shut the fuck up and not speak for them? How about we don't put them blame on them for something they are not responsible for? How's that sound?

Also I was singling out teachers unions, not individual teachers. 2020 was a needlessly wasted year for young kids. Let’s hope the delta variant doesn’t put them at actual risk now. Missing two years would be brutal. I feel bad for them