COVID-19 in Boston

[George_Apley]

Unless something has changed since May 6th that I haven't noticed, Mayor Walsh announced that outdoor work can resume on Monday, and all other construction on the 26th. Somerville has a somewhat similar plan. Not sure about Cambridge. The Governor never ordered construction to halt in the first place, so his plans for a phased reopening aren't super relevant to that industry.

Globe Link from May 6th

On that topic, it's clear that the Governor's office has been backpedaling all week with regard to reopening. They got a lot of pushback from municipal and health sector leaders after they announced Phase One beginning on the 18th, and their latest announcements have essentially been extending the shutdown without saying they're extending the shutdown for at least another week. That tells me that they've been frantically restructuring their original plans.

EDIT: To that point, here's a Globe article from yesterday on how Baker is confusing business owners this week.

What will happen next week? Businesses are hungry for information as Baker readies Massachusetts reopening plan

 

[DZH22]

Unless something has changed since May 6th that I haven't noticed, Mayor Walsh announced that outdoor work can resume on Monday, and all other construction on the 26th. Somerville has a somewhat similar plan. Not sure about Cambridge. The Governor never ordered construction to halt in the first place, so his plans for a phased reopening aren't super relevant to that industry.

Globe Link from May 6th

A key sentence in that article: Projects that don’t meet the state’s definition of essential — such as office buildings or hotels, for now — will not be able to go forward until the state eases its restrictions, Brophy wrote.

So it sounds like things like the 691' Winthrop Square Tower, 485' Alcott, and "cleaning up" of 1 Dalton, The Sudbury, and Hub on Causeway residential will all be resuming soon. However, work on the State Street showstopper or finishing up the Hub on Causeway office tower is still on hold. Am I interpreting that correctly? The State Street tower is actually one of the steps towards knocking down the garage and building additional residential buildings, so maybe they can still do some prep work? I don't know at all. It seems odd because from a construction point of view, if you can safely build residential then you can safely build all of it!

Now that we have flattened the curve for the moment, it's pretty problematic to think that we need to stay closed indefinitely for another year or more. Many more people will never recover from the economic devastation than will die from this illness alone. How many people are currently being doomed to homelessness in their futures? There was an article last year about how almost 40% of Americans don't have $400 for emergency expenses. It's easy for rich people (like Bill Gates) to tell everybody to stop what they're doing indefinitely. They don't have to worry about feeding their families or keeping a roof over their heads! This whole situation is untenable and the ramifications will extend far beyond the death toll.

 

[George_Apley]

A key sentence in that article: Projects that don’t meet the state’s definition of essential — such as office buildings or hotels, for now — will not be able to go forward until the state eases its restrictions, Brophy wrote.

So it sounds like things like the 691' Winthrop Square Tower, 485' Alcott, and "cleaning up" of 1 Dalton, The Sudbury, and Hub on Causeway residential will all be resuming soon. However, work on the State Street showstopper or finishing up the Hub on Causeway office tower is still on hold. Am I interpreting that correctly? The State Street tower is actually one of the steps towards knocking down the garage and building additional residential buildings, so maybe they can still do some prep work? I don't know at all. It seems odd because from a construction point of view, if you can safely build residential then you can safely build all of it!

I'd be surprised if the state doesn't allow all construction to resume with certain restrictions in place as early as next week.

Now that we have flattened the curve for the moment, it's pretty problematic to think that we need to stay closed indefinitely for another year or more. Many more people will never recover from the economic devastation than will die from this illness alone. How many people are currently being doomed to homelessness in their futures? There was an article last year about how almost 40% of Americans don't have $400 for emergency expenses. It's easy for rich people (like Bill Gates) to tell everybody to stop what they're doing indefinitely. They don't have to worry about feeding their families or keeping a roof over their heads! This whole situation is untenable and the ramifications will extend far beyond the death toll.

No one who matters is saying that we should stay closed for "another year or more." The economic devastation is self-inflicted. The feds could have done more from the start. I agree the way we're doing it is unsustainable, but we are completely incapable in this country of solving our problems by thinking outside the box. UBI conversations are on the table in the House, but everything is partisan now because Trump is making basic crisis response political. We can move this convo somewhere else if anyone wants to get into it.

As an aside (and I can move this tangent somewhere else too if anyone pics it up), I don't really get all the Bill Gates hate. I'm not lumping in what DZH said with all the conspiracy nonsense, but I just don't get all this rage for the man.

 

[DZH22]

As an aside (and I can move this tangent somewhere else too if anyone pics it up), I don't really get all the Bill Gates hate. I'm not lumping in what DZH said with all the conspiracy nonsense, but I just don't get all this rage for the man.

Just used him because he's rich and outspoken. The same could be said of any rich person, like Warren Buffet, or a random CEO, or a famous actor, or every politician, etc etc etc. If you are going to lose your business, lose your life savings, lose the roof over your head, then you could say your life is on the line even if not literally at that exact moment (ie even if you're healthy and would be asymptomatic to COVID). I am lucky enough to not be in that position at the current time. I have been able to work from home, job is secure for now, still live a middle class lifestyle and have modest savings to weather this for quite a while. The outspoken rich people I often see quoted could weather this FOREVER. On the other hand, many people will be ruined within another couple of months if they aren't already. I think it would be riskier for me to live on the street than to expose myself to COVID, 100 times out of 100. However, I have a lot of older family members who I 100% do not want to be exposed to COVID. I can empathize with both sides here, and each of our current situations will help dictate what side of that fence we land on. I'm still at the top figuring out which side to fall on. The quarantine has been very important in the short run but will wreck the country in the long run.

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

What I don't understand is people can stand outside Walmart or other big box stores, ride the subways and buses but the parks and beaches are closed not open to the public.

These family's need some place to go for their mental health.

 

[Charlie_mta]

I'm 70 and stilll working a full-time job (from home recently), I would rather have society open up again, with proper precautions and mitigation, than have everything shut down because of people like me. I can stay home and I'll be fine. My 40-year old daughter in Manhattan had COVID-19 (subsequently tested to prove it), and she just had symptoms of a bad cold.

 

[jdrinboston]

What I don't understand is people can stand outside Walmart or other big box stores, ride the subways and buses but the parks and beaches are closed not open to the public.

These family's need some place to go for their mental health.

Are the parks and beaches closed? I drove through Winthrop and Revere today and both beaches were open and had people on them. The beachside parking in Revere however, was blocked off.

 

[falcon42]

^^^Exactly. Charlie allows people to stand outside Home Depot to get some gardening supplies to fix up their garden. Seems very essential. Marty Walsh has 0 idea what he is doing. First we had to lock down to stop the spread and flatten the curve. Now he thinks that not enough people have anti bodies. Wait what? Who is advising him? I've had a few conversations with friends in other cities and they are laughing at the lack of a plan we have. Scary.

48 states have CLEAR concise opening plans. Of course, MA does not have one. How do businesses prepare for tomorrow? If I were a main street retailer, I would just open up. Let them come take my license.

I am witnessing clients lose their livelihoods in their small businesses. It is painful and heartbreaking. Enough is enough.

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

^^^Exactly. Charlie allows people to stand outside Home Depot to get some gardening supplies to fix up their garden. Seems very essential. Marty Walsh has 0 idea what he is doing. First we had to lock down to stop the spread and flatten the curve. Now he thinks that not enough people have anti bodies. Wait what? Who is advising him? I've had a few conversations with friends in other cities and they are laughing at the lack of a plan we have. Scary.

48 states have CLEAR concise opening plans. Of course, MA does not have one. How do businesses prepare for tomorrow? If I were a main street retailer, I would just open up. Let them come take my license.

I am witnessing clients lose their livelihoods in their small businesses. It is painful and heartbreaking. Enough is enough.

You have to wonder if this is the final nail in coffin for the mom & pop shops in Boston, LA, NYC. Looks like the corporations are going to take it all.
I understand flatten the curve but when you talk about 3 month shutdowns. How many small local business's can survive this type actions.

The parks and the beaches are closed to the public but the police do not enforce people just walking through alone or a couple of people. I just don't understand the logic to do that to humanity as they can sit on buses, subways and have to stand in line for food. It doesn't make sense.

 

[falcon42]

So true. The bus/train is FAR more dangerous then getting your hair cut. I laugh with the silver line rolling through the Seaport on Sundays. I have yet to see a single human on a SL 1-2 bus on a Sunday. Complete waste of money, but I digress.

I am in professional services focused on SMBs. I have never seen anything like this. Balance sheets are dwindling, sales disappeared, owner's leveraging personal money to stay afloat. MA has literally done NOTHING for small businesses. The MA Growth Capital fund was released for like $10M. Are you kidding me? $10M. It ran out in a day or two. Other than that, the state has done little to nothing to help.

The unrest is real. Don't be surprised if you see some start to open up on their own. Capitalists find a way to survive, no matter how much authoritarian leaders try to take their livelihoods away.

 

[HenryAlan]

Some of you guys seem to be living in a different Boston than the rest of us.

 

[George_Apley]

Just used him because he's rich and outspoken. The same could be said of any rich person, like Warren Buffet, or a random CEO, or a famous actor, or every politician, etc etc etc. If you are going to lose your business, lose your life savings, lose the roof over your head, then you could say your life is on the line even if not literally at that exact moment (ie even if you're healthy and would be asymptomatic to COVID). I am lucky enough to not be in that position at the current time. I have been able to work from home, job is secure for now, still live a middle class lifestyle and have modest savings to weather this for quite a while. The outspoken rich people I often see quoted could weather this FOREVER. On the other hand, many people will be ruined within another couple of months if they aren't already. I think it would be riskier for me to live on the street than to expose myself to COVID, 100 times out of 100. However, I have a lot of older family members who I 100% do not want to be exposed to COVID. I can empathize with both sides here, and each of our current situations will help dictate what side of that fence we land on. I'm still at the top figuring out which side to fall on. The quarantine has been very important in the short run but will wreck the country in the long run.

I get it. But we fucked up. We have no significant leadership at the federal level and states are ad hoc planning their way through this. Resigning ourselves to reopening or ruin is a false choice. Suggesting that "things will collapse so just reopen and let the cards fall where they may" misunderstands the goals of closing in the first place. It was never about stopping all transmission and death, it was about mitigating it so that our health care systems can handle flow and prevent more death than necessary. We've largely succeeded in that from a hospital perspective, though not when looking at nursing home facilities. We *will* reopen some sectors as safely as possible soon, but we have to do it responsibly so avoid a fresh spike in infections that would necessitate closing again. This would be a lot easier if the feds had started all of this with strict testing regime and quarantines of international travelers back in early March and rolled out mass testing and tracking through March and April. They didn't.

What I don't understand is people can stand outside Walmart or other big box stores, ride the subways and buses but the parks and beaches are closed not open to the public.

These family's need some place to go for their mental health.

Parking for state recreational areas is closed, but no one is stopping people from going to them sans auto. Maintain social distancing and wear a mask.

I'm 70 and stilll working a full-time job (from home recently), I would rather have society open up again, with proper precautions and mitigation, than have everything shut down because of people like me. I can stay home and I'll be fine. My 40-year old daughter in Manhattan had COVID-19 (subsequently tested to prove it), and she just had symptoms of a bad cold.

It's not quite so simple as "olds die," "youngs are fine". Many people who contract COVID-19 are asymptomatic carriers. That number is unclear based on antibody testing but it seems to be between 20-50%. Others get cold symptoms like your daughters did. Others get pneumonia and need to be hospitalized. There is evidence that COVID can go dormant in the body and come back after an apparent recovery. There's other evidence of potential long-term health effects. There's evidence of (rare) syndromes in children that manifest differently from the respiratory cold.

I agree that "with proper precautions and mitigation" we should open society up, but so far we're having a hard time with "precautions" and "mitigation." What started as failures at the federal level are now leading MA state leaders to wobble on reopening procedures. That's causing confusion, uncertainty, delays, and frustration.

You have to wonder if this is the final nail in coffin for the mom & pop shops in Boston, LA, NYC. Looks like the corporations are going to take it all.
I understand flatten the curve but when you talk about 3 month shutdowns. How many small local business's can survive this type actions.

The parks and the beaches are closed to the public but the police do not enforce people just walking through alone or a couple of people. I just don't understand the logic to do that to humanity as they can sit on buses, subways and have to stand in line for food. It doesn't make sense.

It's a major concern. Again a failure of federal policy. Congress put teeth in the relief bill on enforcement for where $$ got distributed and the executive branch has ignored it. That said, the SBA has been unloading billions of dollars of payroll protection so small businesses and nonprofits can continue to pay their employees and pay their utility costs.

^^^Exactly. Charlie allows people to stand outside Home Depot to get some gardening supplies to fix up their garden. Seems very essential. Marty Walsh has 0 idea what he is doing. First we had to lock down to stop the spread and flatten the curve. Now he thinks that not enough people have anti bodies. Wait what? Who is advising him? I've had a few conversations with friends in other cities and they are laughing at the lack of a plan we have. Scary.

48 states have CLEAR concise opening plans. Of course, MA does not have one. How do businesses prepare for tomorrow? If I were a main street retailer, I would just open up. Let them come take my license.

I am witnessing clients lose their livelihoods in their small businesses. It is painful and heartbreaking. Enough is enough.

I'm confused. Are you mad at Baker, Walsh, or both? "Flattening the curve" was successful, but the curve will rise again if we can't reopen with the right precautions and testing regimes in place. Many states reopened without strong testing plans in place. We will see in the next few weeks if that harms them or not. It seems like Baker was planning on a more liberal reopening scheme last Monday and then pumped the brakes when his admin got feedback that it would be difficult to implement those plans safely. I think they totally went back to drawing board to how the "stages" of reopening will look.

Given the number of people I see out and about not taking any personal precautions for their own safety or the safety of those around them, I'm not super inspired that people are able to handle being responsible and precautious in a reopening situation.

Make it health directive that all vendors require masks on their customers. Close street lanes so restaurants and cafes can open outdoor seating safely. Keep rolling out more testing capacity and tracking.

So true. The bus/train is FAR more dangerous then getting your hair cut. I laugh with the silver line rolling through the Seaport on Sundays. I have yet to see a single human on a SL 1-2 bus on a Sunday. Complete waste of money, but I digress.

Setting aside whether or not keeping the T rolling is "complete waste of money", I don't really get the assertion that getting your haircut is much safer than taking public transportation, given the reduced rate of ridership. Both are shared spaces. Both are shared seats. Both put customers in close contact with other people.

I am in professional services focused on SMBs. I have never seen anything like this. Balance sheets are dwindling, sales disappeared, owner's leveraging personal money to stay afloat. MA has literally done NOTHING for small businesses. The MA Growth Capital fund was released for like $10M. Are you kidding me? $10M. It ran out in a day or two. Other than that, the state has done little to nothing to help.

The state can't deficit spend, so I don't really know what resources you think it can bring to bear. The feds have released two tranches of SBA aid through PPP. The admin bungled the roll-out in many ways, with a lot of that money going to larger businesses, but I still know personally of many local small businesses that received loans. But you're right. The money runs out quick. The feds ought to be doing more.

The unrest is real. Don't be surprised if you see some start to open up on their own. Capitalists find a way to survive, no matter how much authoritarian leaders try to take their livelihoods away.

I really feel like you're directing your ire at the wrong folks here...

 

[George_Apley]

And here's the latest from the Governor: Here’s How Massachusetts Will Reopen Under Governor Charlie Baker’s Plan

Here's the full report: Reopening Massachusetts

Summary from WCVB:

PHASE 1

May 18

• Places of worship with guidelines and outdoor services are encouraged

• Essential businesses, manufacturing and construction

• Hospitals and community health centers can start with high priority preventative care and treatment for high-risk patients

• Public transit riders on the MBTA will be required to wear masks

May 25 with restrictions

• Personal services – hair salons, barbershops, pet grooming (curbside drop off/pick up) – all by appointment only

• Car washes – exterior washing only

• Laboratories and life sciences facilities

• Offices (not in Boston) but must be less than 25% maximum occupancy; work from home strongly encouraged

• Retail for remote services and curbside pick up

• Beaches, parks, drive-in theaters, athletic fields and courts, outdoor adventure activities, most fishing, hunting and boating, along with outdoor gardens, zoos, reserves and public installations – all with guidelines

• Day Care: Childcare operating at reduced capacity and on an emergency basis for children of workers with no safe alternative to group care

June 1

• Offices in Boston

The state will issue a checklist for each industry. Businesses will have to check off everything and keep a written copy of its COVID-19 plan. The state will not inspect businesses before reopening, but if there is a problem, or if asked, businesses must be able to provide this paperwork.

Each sector will have to meet specific safety standards to stay open.

For construction and manufacturing, that means face coverings for all workers, unless it poses a safety hazard and hand washing stations have to be setup at all sites.

For places of worship, the guidelines state they have to limit the number of people to 40% capacity, masks need to be worn by anyone over the age of 5 unless there’s a medical issue, everyone who doesn’t live in the same home has to be seated at least 6 feet apart, and attendees should reserve a spot online to keep capacity.

PHASE 2 (No date yet – no earlier than June 8)

• With restrictions and capacity limitations – retail businesses, restaurants, hotels, nail salons and day spas

• Less urgent preventative health services, procedures and care, like dental cleanings and elective procedures

• Day programs like adult day health and day habilitation

• Campgrounds, playgrounds, spray decks, public and community pools all with guidelines

• On a phased basis, recreational day camps with restrictions

• Youth sports in limited fashion

• MBTA increases services, the Blue line goes to full service and ferries resume limited service

Phase 3 (No date yet – no earlier than June 29)

• Gyms, bars, casinos and museums

• Youth sports with games and tournaments (limited crowd sizes)

• On a phased basis, residential camps with restrictions

• MBTA’s buses and Red, Orange and Green lines and ferries go to full service where staffing allows. Commuter rail moves to modified full schedule

Phase 4 (No date yet – full resumption of normal activity)

• Large venues and nightclubs

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

No one who matters is saying that we should stay closed for "another year or more." The economic devastation is self-inflicted. The feds could have done more from the start. I agree the way we're doing it is unsustainable, but we are completely incapable in this country of solving our problems by thinking outside the box. UBI conversations are on the table in the House, but everything is partisan now because Trump is making basic crisis response political. We can move this convo somewhere else if anyone wants to get into it.

As an aside (and I can move this tangent somewhere else too if anyone pics it up), I don't really get all the Bill Gates hate. I'm not lumping in what DZH said with all the conspiracy nonsense, but I just don't get all this rage for the man.

One thing I realized out of all this is America has no manufacturing the o

I get it. But we fucked up. We have no significant leadership at the federal level and states are ad hoc planning their way through this. Resigning ourselves to reopening or ruin is a false choice. Suggesting that "things will collapse so just reopen and let the cards fall where they may" misunderstands the goals of closing in the first place. It was never about stopping all transmission and death, it was about mitigating it so that our health care systems can handle flow and prevent more death than necessary. We've largely succeeded in that from a hospital perspective, though not when looking at nursing home facilities. We *will* reopen some sectors as safely as possible soon, but we have to do it responsibly so avoid a fresh spike in infections that would necessitate closing again. This would be a lot easier if the feds had started all of this with strict testing regime and quarantines of international travelers back in early March and rolled out mass testing and tracking through March and April. They didn't.



Parking for state recreational areas is closed, but no one is stopping people from going to them sans auto. Maintain social distancing and wear a mask.

I get it. But we fucked up. We have no significant leadership at the federal level and states are ad hoc planning their way through this. Resigning ourselves to reopening or ruin is a false choice. Suggesting that "things will collapse so just reopen and let the cards fall where they may" misunderstands the goals of closing in the first place. It was never about stopping all transmission and death, it was about mitigating it so that our health care systems can handle flow and prevent more death than necessary. We've largely succeeded in that from a hospital perspective, though not when looking at nursing home facilities. We *will* reopen some sectors as safely as possible soon, but we have to do it responsibly so avoid a fresh spike in infections that would necessitate closing again. This would be a lot easier if the feds had started all of this with strict testing regime and quarantines of international travelers back in early March and rolled out mass testing and tracking through March and April. They didn't.



Parking for state recreational areas is closed, but no one is stopping people from going to them sans auto. Maintain social distancing and wear a mask.



It's not quite so simple as "olds die," "youngs are fine". Many people who contract COVID-19 are asymptomatic carriers. That number is unclear based on antibody testing but it seems to be between 20-50%. Others get cold symptoms like your daughters did. Others get pneumonia and need to be hospitalized. There is evidence that COVID can go dormant in the body and come back after an apparent recovery. There's other evidence of potential long-term health effects. There's evidence of (rare) syndromes in children that manifest differently from the respiratory cold.

I agree that "with proper precautions and mitigation" we should open society up, but so far we're having a hard time with "precautions" and "mitigation." What started as failures at the federal level are now leading MA state leaders to wobble on reopening procedures. That's causing confusion, uncertainty, delays, and frustration.



It's a major concern. Again a failure of federal policy. Congress put teeth in the relief bill on enforcement for where $$ got distributed and the executive branch has ignored it. That said, the SBA has been unloading billions of dollars of payroll protection so small businesses and nonprofits can continue to pay their employees and pay their utility costs.



I'm confused. Are you mad at Baker, Walsh, or both? "Flattening the curve" was successful, but the curve will rise again if we can't reopen with the right precautions and testing regimes in place. Many states reopened without strong testing plans in place. We will see in the next few weeks if that harms them or not. It seems like Baker was planning on a more liberal reopening scheme last Monday and then pumped the brakes when his admin got feedback that it would be difficult to implement those plans safely. I think they totally went back to drawing board to how the "stages" of reopening will look.

Given the number of people I see out and about not taking any personal precautions for their own safety or the safety of those around them, I'm not super inspired that people are able to handle being responsible and precautious in a reopening situation.

Make it health directive that all vendors require masks on their customers. Close street lanes so restaurants and cafes can open outdoor seating safely. Keep rolling out more testing capacity and tracking.



Setting aside whether or not keeping the T rolling is "complete waste of money", I don't really get the assertion that getting your haircut is much safer than taking public transportation, given the reduced rate of ridership. Both are shared spaces. Both are shared seats. Both put customers in close contact with other people.



The state can't deficit spend, so I don't really know what resources you think it can bring to bear. The feds have released two tranches of SBA aid through PPP. The admin bungled the roll-out in many ways, with a lot of that money going to larger businesses, but I still know personally of many local small businesses that received loans. But you're right. The money runs out quick. The feds ought to be doing more.



I really feel like you're directing your ire at the wrong folks here...

Concerning the parks and the beaches. The state shutdown the parks and beaches. Most people don't have the luxury to walk from town to town to a beach. The parks are shutdown if an officer catches you hanging out there you will be asked to leave.
I just don't see the difference in waiting in a parking lot at Walmart if they are trying to avoid overall crowds.

How is outsourcing most if not all manufacturing to Communist Regime not a National Security threat for United State citizens? We almost went to nuclear war with the Russians in the late 60's over this ideology.

 

[KentXie]

What I don't understand is people can stand outside Walmart or other big box stores, ride the subways and buses but the parks and beaches are closed not open to the public.

These family's need some place to go for their mental health.

Walmart and Other Big Box have essential products that are needed (toilet paper, cleaning products, food, etc.). Yes they also sell non-essentially products which unfortunately, people are disguising their trip to these Big Box retails as essential to pick up non-essential products. That's why some of these Big Box retailers actually fence off non-essential aisles so that people can't purchase them.

For parks and beach, yes I understand that these places do serve a need for mental health. I guess what makes this difficult is that unlike a store, you don't have workers supervising customers to maintain distance. Not that people in the stores are following rules all the time either or wearing masks because this god forsaken country is taught from a young age to rebel like a spoiled child who cries because they don't want to wear a helmet when biking else they are in danger of turning into a communist. Honestly, if you were to tell everyone in the US not to drink bleach, a group of them would cry out saying the government is trampling on their freedom and start drinking bleach to rebel. This is why the pandemic persists in the US. It's not because we have a problem like India where it's too dense. No, it's because trying to follow orders is too close to communism and being unpatriotic. I'm honestly surprised our military doesn't get called out for being communists for following orders to a T.

 

[KentXie]

And don't get me started with the low-income people struggling during the pandemic. You know how other countries dealt with that? They have safety nets protecting them, providing them with basic income to keep them afloat so that they don't have to struggle with their rent and so they don't have to go out to work, increasing the transmitting rate. The US unfortunately, is founded on the Darwinist idea of "Survival of the Fittest", the ultimate "Sink or Swim" experience. You're poor and can't pay rent? You can die from starvation or you can go out an work and die from being sick. Trust me, that $15/hr job now $10/hr job due to the pandemic won't be enough to pay for the medical bill you incur when you get sick and get sent to the hospital. But that's the fact of life in the US. The "American Dream."

And if you want to respond back by saying, "well if you hate the US so much, why don't you leave." Trust me, I want to. If I can take my whole family and move them to Australia/Canada, I would in an instant and would tear up my US citizenship in a heartbeat.

 

[Charlie_mta]

And don't get me started with the low-income people struggling during the pandemic. You know how other countries dealt with that? They have safety nets protecting them, providing them with basic income to keep them afloat so that they don't have to struggle with their rent and so they don't have to go out to work, increasing the transmitting rate. The US unfortunately, is founded on the Darwinist idea of "Survival of the Fittest", the ultimate "Sink or Swim" experience. You're poor and can't pay rent? You can die from starvation or you can go out an work and die from being sick. Trust me, that $15/hr job now $10/hr job due to the pandemic won't be enough to pay for the medical bill you incur when you get sick and get sent to the hospital. But that's the fact of life in the US. The "American Dream."

And if you want to respond back by saying, "well if you hate the US so much, why don't you leave." Trust me, I want to. If I can take my whole family and move them to Australia/Canada, I would in an instant and would tear up my US citizenship in a heartbeat.

I'm with you there. I'd move to Canada right now if I could. I almost did that in 1968 to avoid the draft, but opted instead for the Navy. Probably one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.

 

[jklo]

And don't get me started with the low-income people struggling during the pandemic. You know how other countries dealt with that? They have safety nets protecting them, providing them with basic income to keep them afloat so that they don't have to struggle with their rent and so they don't have to go out to work, increasing the transmitting rate. The US unfortunately, is founded on the Darwinist idea of "Survival of the Fittest", the ultimate "Sink or Swim" experience. You're poor and can't pay rent? You can die from starvation or you can go out an work and die from being sick. Trust me, that $15/hr job now $10/hr job due to the pandemic won't be enough to pay for the medical bill you incur when you get sick and get sent to the hospital. But that's the fact of life in the US. The "American Dream."

And if you want to respond back by saying, "well if you hate the US so much, why don't you leave." Trust me, I want to. If I can take my whole family and move them to Australia/Canada, I would in an instant and would tear up my US citizenship in a heartbeat.

Somebody has to keep the food supply chain going. If all the places that sell food were ordered to be shut down, you would have been some serious shit.

Now Walmart and Target did sell a ton of 4K TVs from the stimulus checks.

 

[falcon42]

George do you work in gov't? Sure sounds like it, or at the least, have a protected paycheck. I own a business, so I don't need the lecture. I have seen first hand other business owners CLOSE FOR GOOD because of this pathetic leadership at the state level.

This is a free society and 48 states have found a way to reopen better than us, including NY. Check out GA and FL...going pretty good isn't it? Baker and Walsh both are over their heads here. Are you really telling me an pot shop is better for society than a gym? Our population is obese. Hate to tell ya, but having people exercise vigorously and diet correctly does a hell of a lot more than wearing a cloth mask outside.

Also, you take shots at the Federal level (because you must have TDS). What exactly could they have done for MA? Baker said they have received everything they have asked for. The Army Corps helped with setting up HOPE, which never had more than 150 or so patients in it. Can you please point to specific MA examples of where the Feds did not give us what we needed? This is a local issue and unfortunately, we have proven we have leaders who are just not qualified for this. I'm really hoping these one way arrows on the sidewalks make all the difference tho.

 

[jklo]

Our population is obese. Hate to tell ya, but having people exercise vigorously and diet correctly does a hell of a lot more than wearing a cloth mask outside.

That part is so very true.

Also, you take shots at the Federal level (because you must have TDS). What exactly could they have done for MA? Baker said they have received everything they have asked for. The Army Corps helped with setting up HOPE, which never had more than 150 or so patients in it. Can you please point to specific MA examples of where the Feds did not give us what we needed? This is a local issue and unfortunately, we have proven we have leaders who are just not qualified for this. I'm really hoping these one way arrows on the sidewalks make all the difference tho.

Did have the Feds confiscating the PPE for their own purposes.