Crazy Transit Pitches

I have to agree with the need for a new ROW dedicated exclusively to the Acela. Running your superfast express train on the same tracks as a commuter rail is borderline psychotic, honestly, and it doesn't matter how fast you "could" run the train if you're going to have to brake for slower trains ahead again...

...and again...

...and again.

For that matter, stopping a dozen times between here and there is obnoxious. In the future, the Acela should blow through Back Bay, Route 128, and Providence at 150mph like it does at Kingston Station already. You get on at South Station, the next stop is New Yahwk.

Commute -- you are not going to go blowing through the curves and wild and crazy bunch of tracks and switches between South Station and Back Bay -- thus there's not much of a penalty to stopping at Back Bay

You might have more of a case with Rt-128 and the expresses -- as long as there's a reasonable frequency of some sort of connection between South Station and Rt-128 for those boarding in the suburbs to get back to South Station or Back Bay to board the express
 
I have to agree with the need for a new ROW dedicated exclusively to the Acela. Running your superfast express train on the same tracks as a commuter rail is borderline psychotic, honestly, and it doesn't matter how fast you "could" run the train if you're going to have to brake for slower trains ahead again...

...and again...

...and again.

For that matter, stopping a dozen times between here and there is obnoxious. In the future, the Acela should blow through Back Bay, Route 128, and Providence at 150mph like it does at Kingston Station already. You get on at South Station, the next stop is New Yahwk.

Boston - New York with no stops in between? Whaaat?

Providence is essential, as would be Worcester. 128, sure, blow through that. Back Bay, I'm not sure there's much reasoning for that given track speeds and the fact that Back Bay is just as much a destination as South Station.
 
I have to agree with the need for a new ROW dedicated exclusively to the Acela. Running your superfast express train on the same tracks as a commuter rail is borderline psychotic, honestly, and it doesn't matter how fast you "could" run the train if you're going to have to brake for slower trains ahead again...

...and again...

...and again.

For that matter, stopping a dozen times between here and there is obnoxious. In the future, the Acela should blow through Back Bay, Route 128, and Providence at 150mph like it does at Kingston Station already. You get on at South Station, the next stop is New Yahwk.

It's not practical in this country to do that. Outside of California HSR where there's open land and very long distance between major cities (Big Dig-level bloat or not, that's a transformative project at any cost), we don't have the ability to take that much private land in century-plus entrenched communities to blaze through new construction. We shot that load overbuilding the Interstate highway system. We also have the oldest legacy RR route network in the world, with most lines built in the 19th and 20th century (UK has the only comparable-age system, and it's a self-contained island). Much like the interstate system it was built with the proven-false expectation that lines could be ripped up and reconfigured at will every 30 years to suit current needs, so there are wacky curves and whatnot all over the eastern network leftover from when mainlines had to zigzag off-target to meet short-lived branchlines and old customers who may not have existed for 100 years. We also have the most significant freight network in the world, and 50 years of decline or not it's persevered with the times and is a fact of life that drives the much tighter regulatory bureaucracy here. And the most privately-owned lines...a majority, in fact, outside the East Coast where the RR bankruptcies of the 1970's gifted the states and Amtrak a one-time bonanza of cheap ROW's locked up safely for the long haul.


It's only going to work by maximizing usage and the lines we have, which means some compromises on perfection. Forget about 200 MPH trains. Forget about meeting the "true" definition of HSR (160 MPH) outside of California and segments of the NEC. 125 MPH is a very reasonable goal on trunklines achievable even on commuter rail trains. Right now MARC in Maryland, only the 9th highest ridership system in the U.S. with only 4 lines, is the only CR in the country that does 125? Why? The entire NEC save for short gaps in Delaware and southern Rhode Island (for now...it's coming by 2020) has commuter rail trains...4 agencies having >4 times the ridership of MARC. We haven't even scratched the surface of how much better the corridor can be. Punch up the big 1994 study of HSR improvements and see how big a backlog still remains:

-- 11 grade crossings in southeastern Connecticut that were supposed to be gone by the end of the 90's which CDOT never took care of.
-- Several speed-restricted movable bridges (most of them in CT) that were deficient 15 years ago and have never been replaced.
-- Many low-platform commuter rail stations--almost all of them on the T and CT Shore Line East--that have much longer dwell times than high platforms with full level boarding. Half of the Shore Line East stops have only 1 platform and trains have to tie up the opposite track to stop there!
-- Several gaps south of NYC where the ROW shrinks below 3 tracks from 1970's removals that have still not been put back. Critical gap in Metro North 4-track west of New Haven. Critical gap in MBTA 3-track south of Readville. No passing tracks yet at stations like Sharon and Mansfield in 150 MPH territory, causing the Acela to have to slow. Derelict freight track from Providence to Central Falls shrinking it to 2 passenger tracks. Severe lack of passing sidings on the long 2-track stretch in CT.
-- Severe resistance from Metro North to updating their signal system or realigning the 2 center tracks to enable Acela tilting on the New Haven Line that they, not Amtrak owns. Everything's artificially capped at 90 MPH because of that turf war (and boy, is it ever a turf war, if the abusive MNRR employees on RR.net are any indication).
-- The T's slow-ass 79 MPH-capped (or worse, if the coaches on a trainset are from a deferred-maintenance part of the fleet) trains, by far the slowest on the NEC. And we'll be the only ones still running diesels when CT finishes its sparkling new M8 EMU order and assigns the last batch to SLE. This is an elephant in the room that MA is home to one of the longest stretches of 150 MPH running and we can't even top 90. You can do 90 on diesel if your equipment isn't shit. Our equipment is pure shit.
-- Curve fixes and signal fixes in New Jersey and Delaware that have been high-priority for 20 years, but bafflingly unfunded till just last year when the Feds dropped the year's single largest rail appropriation to fixing a 25-mile stretch.
-- Old, failing electrical infrastructure likewise deferred 20 years until Metro North and points south played agonizing catch-up the last few years (with their passengers swallowing many temporary delays).
-- Weight-inefficient equipment because there are 3 voltage changes on the line between New York and New Haven requiring heavier, more expensive transformers on the locomotives. The '94 study recommended junking the 1920's-era power draw from DC-NYC because it uses expensive, exclusive 25Hz power generation that hasn't been in use on this country's electrical grid since the days of Edison. They backed off doing that at all and renewing the infrastructure for the same brand new on-grid draw we've got New Haven-Boston in favor of just fixing up the 1920's system and its NEC-exclusive power plants. Hence, Amtrak locomotives and the CT M8's that have to go through the phase changes cost a kajillion dollars vs. the trains made for only one voltage. This is penny-wise, pound-foolish thinking. You pay the $2B to get it right the first time and not have to keep buying maintenance-intensive Frankenstein engines every 20 years.
-- Too much freight having to clog up the NEC because there's no way for CSX to get on either side of Manhattan without a 50-mile detour through Albany, and no way for P&W to get from New London to Hartford because all the east-west connecting track through the interior was shortsightedly abandoned by Penn Central when it was going down in bankruptcy flames.


...and tons of minor things, plus no branchlines of any effectiveness other than the 125 MPH Keystone Corridor because the Hudson and Springfield Lines are old diesel routes that are only now beginning to get useful rehab.

I mean, we're laughably far from utilizing it to what it can be...and in stretches, what it used to be. And the problem is the politicians and much of the public has trouble seeing that a minute pared here and a minute pared there by getting caught up on the backlog adds up. They say, "Who freaking cares? I don't want my hard-earned tax dollars buying some pathetic minute nobody will notice!" Not knowing that there are so many lost minutes from infrastructure we let rot to subpar on this ostensibly 'premier' HSR line that the deferred maintenance alone adds up to like a half-hour or more when that humongous checklist gets cleared away. Moreso with a couple of the megaprojects like replacing the very speed-restricted crumbling downtown Baltimore tunnel and building the Gateway tunnel in New York to double up the insanely constricted 2-track squeeze into Penn used by hundreds of trains per day. We don't have to get into crazy transit pitches like taking hundreds of houses in eminent domain on the intractible shoreline and carve out a new ROW to make the NEC truly, absolutely competitive with short-distance air travel (which is disappearing anyway).

Spend the next 10 years getting caught up on the backlog...THEN get some of the inland trunks like Springfield electrified...and THEN we can talk about 160 MPH express trains blazing through the Eastern CT empty quarter and on the Worcester Line. We will need that in time for sure. But how can we even conceptualize that when we haven't paid the existing line enough mind to truly conceptualize what it can do firing on all cylinders? It doesn't need to be reimagined to go from second-rate to first-rate travel. It just needs TLC after 50 years of neglect and un-coordination.
 
F-Line, you make some great points, but when I say new ROW for the Acela... I'm not thinking go on an eminent domain bonanza.

Fact is: ANY new construction for something like that is going to be horrendously expensive. We're already in for $800 million easily if we commit to a new ROW, and that's probably a serious lowball estimate by me. I wouldn't be surprised to find the total price tag of Acela ROW hitting ten figures.

What's another $200 million on the top to move the entire Acela underground, at that point? We live in three dimensions - we can build down. In fact, we could probably get away with taking nearly zero land through eminent domain to make that new ROW if we just cut-and-cover or bore it underneath the ROWs we have right now.

And once you have things underground, in their own tunnel, you can work on running that train even faster than what would be imaginable at surface level.

Plus, the National Big Dig might finally lessen the shame of our Big Dig by comparison.
 
Boston - New York with no stops in between? Whaaat?

Providence is essential, as would be Worcester. 128, sure, blow through that. Back Bay, I'm not sure there's much reasoning for that given track speeds and the fact that Back Bay is just as much a destination as South Station.

Urb -- this discussion in this part of the thread is based on my suggestion which I've called CorTrans -- I originally conceived of it when I was stuck for a couple of hours in New Haven coming from Stamford on Metro North and missing the cross-platform connection to Amtrak

the concept is based on moderate top-speed high average speed achieved by going point to point non-stop or at most a couple of local stops to the destination when you are not moving fast

So you would go about 4X per hour to NYC with the only stops at Back Bay and Rt-128 for the Shore Line and Back Bay and Riverside for the Inland Line

Providence and Worcester would have their own departures and run Non-stop after the Boston Local stops

The goal is to keep all Non-stop segments under:

2 hours for LongRange -- e.g.. NYC, Philadelphia, Albany, New Haven
1 hour for Intermediate -- e.g. Worcester, Springfield, Providence, Plymouth

Meanwhile peak speed is kept below 120 MPH to minimize track, catenary wire maintenance and other issues involved with very high speeds

If you need to go further than the LongRange you would change to the next CorTrans LongRange at your segment destination -- e.g. NYC, Philadelphia, Albany

if you need to get to a stop not available directly you change to the next CorTrans Intermediate at your segment destination -- e.g. Worcester for Leominster; Philadelphia for Atlantic City

The discussion then continued mixing the above with the other original theme of " Nexis4jersey" and comments from "Commuting Boston Student " and the usual dissertation from "F-Line to Dudley"
 
F-Line, you make some great points, but when I say new ROW for the Acela... I'm not thinking go on an eminent domain bonanza.

Fact is: ANY new construction for something like that is going to be horrendously expensive. We're already in for $800 million easily if we commit to a new ROW, and that's probably a serious lowball estimate by me. I wouldn't be surprised to find the total price tag of Acela ROW hitting ten figures.

What's another $200 million on the top to move the entire Acela underground, at that point? We live in three dimensions - we can build down. In fact, we could probably get away with taking nearly zero land through eminent domain to make that new ROW if we just cut-and-cover or bore it underneath the ROWs we have right now.

And once you have things underground, in their own tunnel, you can work on running that train even faster than what would be imaginable at surface level.

Plus, the National Big Dig might finally lessen the shame of our Big Dig by comparison.

Commute -- you've got to take a drive and learn some wind-related physics -- the force on your hand stuck out the window is proportional to the square of the velocity while the power consumed overcoming the wind resistance varies as the cube -- so if you need X HP to drive at 30 you need:

8X to drive at 60
27X to drive at 90
64X to drive at 120
125X to drive at 150

if you can average 120 MPH from Here to NYC you will arrive in less than 2 hours center city to center city

Going fast is very energy inefficient and for short distances unnecessary as long as you keep going at a high average speed -- in other words:
lightweight vehicles for fast acceleration and deceleration
no or very few stops

Digging a tunnel -- unless you evacuate the tube actually makes the air resistance problems worse;
you the same boundary layer drag between the vehicle and the air next to the vehicle that you have outside of a tunnel
and then unless you have a big diameter tunnel - you compound this with the friction between the air you are dragging along scraping along the tunnel walls

If you evacuate the tunnel and use magnetic levitation then of course you could go very very fast although the curves in 3D have to be very carefully constructed to deal with very large turning forces and strange coupling between motion in one plane and the other due to the magnets

The ultimate of course is something called 'Planet Train" or sometimes 'Gravity Express" where if you dig deep enough gravity will accelerate you to truly amazing speeds and then safely deposit you at rest on the other end - something like a pendulum or yoyo. While the concept dates to the 1600's in a letter from Robert Hooke to Isaac Newton and was studied in a more practical form by Robert Godard in the 1920's (Boston to NYC in 12 minutes) -- the things started to be taken semi-seriously in the 70's. In the first infatuation with energy and the environment, people studied these trains and concluded that if the then being studied nuclear-powered deep boring technology arrived on the scene (which so-far it hasn't) you could travel from Boston to LA in under an hour with no significant external energy required. You in fact could travel from Boston to London, Boston to Dehli or Boston to Sydney in comparable time although for the longest trips it would be better to stop along the way and take the next hop rather than having to bore a tunnel through the core of the earth.

Anyway thanks for the ride to Havana now that I've got my cigar -- I'm returning control to your pilot you should be landing in Des Moines in about 3 hours -- your happy thread hijacker
 
Station by Station , Commuter Rail by 2040


Current , Proposed , Planned Stations


South Station
Fairmount line
South Station
New Market
Uphams Corner
Four Corners / Geneva
Talbot Ave

Morton Street
Blue Hill Ave
Fairmount
Readville


Providence / Kingston line
South Station
Back Bay Station
Ruggles
Westwood / Route 128
Canton JCT
Sharon
Mansfield
Attleboro
South Attleboro
Pawtucket
Providence
TF Green
Wickford JCT
Kingston


Needham Line
South Station
Back Bay
Ruggles
Forest Hills
Roslindale Village
Bellevue
Highland
West Roxbury
Hershey
Needham JCT
Needham Center
Needham Heights


Worcester Line
South Station
Back Bay
Yawkey
Newtonville
West Newton
Auburndale
Wellesley Farms
Wellesley Hills
Wellesley Square
Natick
West Natick
Framingham
Ashland
Southborough
Westborough
Grafton
Worcester


Greenbush line
South Station
JFK / UMass
Quincy Center
Weymouth Landing/East Braintree
East Weymouth
West Hingham
Nantasket Junction
Cohasset
North Scituate
Greenbush


Milford / Franklin line
South Station
Back Bay
Ruggles
Hyde Park
Readville
Endicott
Dedham Corporate Center
Islington
Norwood Depot
Norwood Central
Windsor Gardens
Plimptonville
Walpole
Norfolk
Franklin/Dean College
Forge Park/495
Bellingham
Milford


Old Colony lines

Kingston line
South Station
JFK/UMASS
Quincy Center
Braintree
South Weymouth
Abington
Whitman
Hanson
Halifax
Kingston / Route 3


Plymouth branch
South Station
JFK/UMASS
Quincy Center
Braintree
South Weymouth
Abington
Whitman
Hanson
Halifax
Plymouth


Middleborough/Lakeville Line
South Station
JFK/UMASS
Quincy Center
Braintree
Holbrook/Randolph
Montello
Brockton
Campello
Bridgewater
Middleborough/Lakeville


North - South Tunnel

Trunk line
Plaistow
Haverhill
Bradford
Lawrence
Andover
Ballardville
North Wilmington
Reading
Wakefield
Greenwood
Melrose Highlands
Melrose / Cedar Park
Wyoming Hill
Malden Center
North Station
Central Station
Back Bay Station
Ruggles
Westwood / Route 128
Canton JCT
Sharon
Mansfield
Attleboro
South Attleboro
Pawtucket
Providence
TF Green
Wickford JCT
Kingston


North Station

Rockport Line
North Station
Chelsea
River Works
Lynn
Swampscott
Salem
Beverly Depot
Montserrat
Prides Crossing
Beverly Farms
Manchester
West Gloucester
Gloucester
Rockport


Portsmouth / Newburyport line
North Station
Chelsea
River Works
Lynn
Swampscott
Salem
Beverly Depot
North Beverly
Hamilton/Wenham
Ipswich
Rowley
Newburyport
Salisbury
Hampton
Portsmouth



Haverhill Line
North Station
Malden Center
Wyoming Hill
Melrose/Cedar Park
Melrose Highlands
Greenwood
Wakefield
Reading
North Wilmington
Ballardvale
Andover
Lawrence
Bradford
Haverhill
Plaistow


Concord / Lowell line
North Station
West Medford
Wedgemere
Winchester Center
Mishawum
Anterson RTC
Wilmington
North Billerica
Lowell
North Chelmsford
Tyngsborough
Nashua
Merrimack
Manchester Airport
Manchester
Southern New Hampshire University
Hooksett
Concord


Greenfield / Fitchburg line
North Station
Porter SQ
Belmont
Waverly
Waltham
Brandeis/Roberts
Kendal Green
Hastings
Silver Hill
Lincoln
Concord
West Concord
South Acton
Littleton/Route 495
Ayer
Shirley
North Leominster
Fitchburg
Wachusetts
Gardner
Athol
Orange
Greenfield


Planned / Proposed lines

New Bedford line
South Station
Back Bay Station
Ruggles
Westwood / Route 128
Canton JCT
Canton Center
Sloughton
North Easton
Easton
Raynham Park
Taunton
East Taunton
Kings Highway
Whales Tooth / Downtown New Bedford


Newport / Fall River line
South Station
Back Bay Station
Ruggles
Westwood / Route 128
Canton JCT
Canton Center
Sloughton
North Easton
Easton
Raynham Park
Taunton
East Taunton
Freetown
Fall River Depot
Battleship Cove
Tiverton
Middletown
United States Naval War College
Newport Waterfront


Woonsocket / Quonset line
Woonsocket
Manville
Route 295 Park / Ride
Cumberland
Valley Falls
Pawtucket
Smithfield Ave

Providence
Olneyville
Reservoir
Park Ave
Jefferson Boulevard

TF Green Airport
Apponaug
East Greenwich
Frenchtown Plaza
Quonset Gateway
Quonset Point
 
It breaks my heart to say this. Really, it does. I wish this was not true.

The worst NIMBYs in Boston and surrounding areas look downright reasonable, tolerable and friendly compared to the Quonset/North Kingston Crowd.

It would make me so, so happy to be proven wrong, but the chances of you getting rail into Quonset are roughly 0%.

Other than that, I like it.

But why not extend into Westerly?
 
Theres room for a turnaround looping track in Kingston , not so with Westerly. As for Quonset line , its possible. Throw in a Ferryport and redevelopment plan , and it becomes a reality.
 
Theres room for a turnaround looping track in Kingston , not so with Westerly. As for Quonset line , its possible. Throw in a Ferryport and redevelopment plan , and it becomes a reality.

Westerly's getting one. Middle passing track for Amtrak on the current eastbound track, relocated eastbound platform on a new eastbound track. Ages ago the tracks used to be in that same configuration. There's a grant app in for it to raise the platforms and do the tri-track, much like Amtrak's currently doing with Kingston. It's the next station up, since they're settling up the RI pair of non-ADA stations with due haste.

Westerly's got an unsused layover yard next to it from when Conrail ran commuter rail service there until 1979, so RIDOT has its spot to turn commuter rail trains. CT has it on its official State Rail Plan that once RIDOT South County service reaches Westerly they plan to extend Shore Line East there 2 stops from New London to meet it on the same platform.


Check the RIDOT website and the in-state CR service proposals...their Woonsocket route is pretty close to what you're proposing, except with only 2 intermediate stops between Woonsocket and Pawtucket and it doesn't deviate off the NEC main or P&W main. They envision some sort of overlapping thing where T service ends at T.F. Green or Wickford, Woonsocket service ends at Kingston, and Westerly service terminates north at Providence or Pawtucket. Meaning Providence Metro gets full saturation with 3 overlapping lines and the service patterns thin out to 2, then 1 line the further outside you go. But they have it easy...NEC + P&W are the only 2 mainlines in the entire state, they reach four-fifths of the state's population within 5 miles of a station, and every potential station is lined up in a contiguous string from state line at Woonsocket to state line at Westerly so they don't have to think in terms of branches with in-state service...only linear overlaps with their service patterns. Newport's the only outlier because it's Massachusetts-tethered, Providence-isolated, and wholly dependent on South Coast Rail and the T. Although I bet RIDOT could make a travel-time competitive run out of Providence if they expressed to Fall River around the horn via Attleboro and Taunton without stopping, then handled all local stops from FR south to downtown Newport.


They're pretty far ahead of the game on their studies and at breaking their build-outs into manageable chunks not reliant on some all-at-once megaproject windfall. They ID'd all the highest-upside service patterns way back in a big statewide multimodal survey in 1994 and have given each a lot of subsequent scrutiny.
 
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Proposed Rhode Island Transit

Urban Rhode / South Coast Light Rail

Pawtucket-Central Falls Station
Downtown Pawtucket - Main Street
George & Pawtucket
Sayles & Pawtucket
N-Main & Pawtucket
Smithfield Ave / N-Main St - Miriam Hospital
Branch Ave & N-Main St
Olney & N-Main St

Providence Station
Benefit Street - RISD
Thayer Street - Brown University
Wayland SQ
East Providence - Taunton Ave
Bradley Hospital
Riverside
Bullock Cove
Barrington
Warren
Ocean Grove
Battleship Cove Transportation Center
Main Street & Spring Street - Fall River
Rodman & Plymouth Ave - Fall River
Route 24 Park & Ride - Fall River
 
And, after spending way too much time putting it off (to be fair, in favor of much more important things...)

Here's the Red Line.

Next, I'll get around to turning the Silver Line into the light rail it was supposed to be, I might reassess the Turquoise Line I made earlier (any suggestions on how I can clean that mess up would be appreciated, or some reassurance that it isn't as bad as I think it is...) and then I might sit down and try and figure out how to make a proper map like the ones van has up on thefutureMBTA.
 
And, after spending way too much time putting it off (to be fair, in favor of much more important things...)

Here's the Red Line.

Next, I'll get around to turning the Silver Line into the light rail it was supposed to be, I might reassess the Turquoise Line I made earlier (any suggestions on how I can clean that mess up would be appreciated, or some reassurance that it isn't as bad as I think it is...) and then I might sit down and try and figure out how to make a proper map like the ones van has up on thefutureMBTA.

Commute -- I suggest that you go back to the drawing board your customer base doesn't exist where you've put the stations

1) No one lives in Lincoln and no-one ever will thanks to their zoning
2) You miss most of Lexington where people live and work
3) you don't do much for Rt-128 commuters. Rt-2/ Hayden Ave and Hartwell Ave / Hanscom -- these are all major employment clusters
4) Nothing to enhance the connectivity of the SPID or South Boston
5) Nothing to improve the connectivity in the vicinity of Globe, former Bayside, UMass Boston
60 Nothing for the former South Weymouth Naval Air Station mega development
 
Commute -- I suggest that you go back to the drawing board your customer base doesn't exist where you've put the stations

1) No one lives in Lincoln and no-one ever will thanks to their zoning
2) You miss most of Lexington where people live and work
3) you don't do much for Rt-128 commuters. Rt-2/ Hayden Ave and Hartwell Ave / Hanscom -- these are all major employment clusters
4) Nothing to enhance the connectivity of the SPID or South Boston
5) Nothing to improve the connectivity in the vicinity of Globe, former Bayside, UMass Boston
60 Nothing for the former South Weymouth Naval Air Station mega development

1) I was kind of hoping that maybe by forcing through Rapid Transit down that way, some development might follow. Vain hope?
2&3) What about a West End/128 Rapid Transit Line, Dedham - Oak Hill - Newton - Auburndale - Waltham - Lexington - Woburn? That gets Rapid Transit into Lexington and gets people around the ends of the system without having to go into downtown, which solves a problem (I think.)
4) Refresh my memory, SPID?
5) That's going to be part of the Silver Line.
6) I'm not sure how to get South Weymouth onto the Red Line without creating another branch or losing the connection to Derby Street?
 
Cbi8y.gif


An example of the type of diagram I'd like to see on doors of MBTA trains showing the stations and connections on each line.

This Line 4 is the current B branch of the Green Line (with a few trimmings on the street-running portion) plus an extension toward Belmont. The other branches of the Green Line have been redesignated: the C becomes Line 5 (hunter green), the D becomes Line 2 (blue) --an extension of the current Blue Line, and the E becomes Line 7 (brown) -- realigned under Stuart Street.

The "C" logo refers to available connections to the revamped regional express/commuter rail system.
 
Why? At most you should be trying to stop at a 10 mile radius, or closer, to downtown Boston.

I suppose I should try and dial it back a little.

Is "everything inside of 128" still too excessive?

Cbi8y.gif


An example of the type of diagram I'd like to see on doors of MBTA trains showing the stations and connections on each line.

This Line 4 is the current B branch of the Green Line (with a few trimmings on the street-running portion) plus an extension toward Belmont. The other branches of the Green Line have been redesignated: the C becomes Line 5 (hunter green), the D becomes Line 2 (blue) --an extension of the current Blue Line, and the E becomes Line 7 (brown) -- realigned under Stuart Street.

The "C" logo refers to available connections to the revamped regional express/commuter rail system.

Okay, so 1 is the Red Line and 3 is the Orange Line and I can't figure out what 6 and 8~12 are supposed to be.

Looks good, though!
 
I suppose I should try and dial it back a little.

Is "everything inside of 128" still too excessive?

Not IMO. I think 128 makes a nice growth boundary. Except in the northern regions, where going beyond downtown Peabody or downtown Beverly is entirely excessive.

Exceptions can be made for places like Needham, Reading, and maybe Anderson/Wouburn if you subscribe to Park & Rides (personally dislike them).


Not to stop on your ideas though, I mean, always good to stretch the imagination. But I think things need to be concentrated in the 128-belt. I suppose it's just my personal opinion, so you should do what you want, but I think most would agree. Some here would probably tell you to not even go that far.
 
Cbi8y.gif


An example of the type of diagram I'd like to see on doors of MBTA trains showing the stations and connections on each line.

This Line 4 is the current B branch of the Green Line (with a few trimmings on the street-running portion) plus an extension toward Belmont. The other branches of the Green Line have been redesignated: the C becomes Line 5 (hunter green), the D becomes Line 2 (blue) --an extension of the current Blue Line, and the E becomes Line 7 (brown) -- realigned under Stuart Street.

The "C" logo refers to available connections to the revamped regional express/commuter rail system.
That diagram is horrendously confusing. The T is a simple system with a handful of colors as line designation. Forget what the tourists say, it is one of the easiest systems to use in the world. Numbers really complicate the issue. The system is not big enough to warrant a numbering system like Berlin's U/S-Bahn. The U-Bahn trains actually have flattened diagrams like that one; (U1-U2-U3-U4) and (U5-U8-U9) are some examples of clusters they use to show some key connections. It is harder to understand connections that are listed below and not diagrammatically shown (like Alexanderplatz appearing on the U2 diagram and then having "U5, U8" listed in small print below and not showing graphical crossings). Major transfer stations (like Alexanderplatz) can get easily overlooked. I don't even bother with the diagrams because they are so misleading. I just look at the full maps stuck to the ceiling.
 
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Okay, so 1 is the Red Line and 3 is the Orange Line and I can't figure out what 6 and 8~12 are supposed to be.

Looks good, though!

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A little hard to describe so I thought I'd just show you what I have to far. :)

Line 6 would be a light rail line originating at Harvard, continuing through the West End/Downtown, traverse the old Washington Elevated corridor and continue along Warren Street/Blue Hill Avenue to Mattapan.

Line 8 would be a heavy rail line along the Pike corridor until the BU bridge where it curves toward MIT and Cambridgeport and finally runs along Route 99 all the way to Northgate.

Line 9 is the heavy rail 'Indigo Line' extended to the north via North Station and the planned Green Line extension corridor, all the way to Anderson/Woburn.

Line 10 is the Braintree branch of the Red Line combined with a new cross-town corridor along Mass Ave and a new line out to Brandeis via Watertown.

Line 11 is the old A branch of the Green Line extended via Cambridge/River/Prospect Streets through Cambridge, continuing through Charlestown and Chelsea/Revere via the current commuter rail corridor to Wonderland.

Line 12 is a circular heavy rail line encompassing the 'urban ring' idea all the way around Boston.
 

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