Crazy Transit Pitches

I just don't see the point of pushing for elevated through low-density outlying neighborhoods. There's just no value proposition, and lots of resistance.

Also, why would you run a shuttle from Back Bay to South Station only. Where are you going to turn it? Let's fixup Worcester, electrify it, infill it and run short-turn service to Brighton/Newton. Increase frequencies on every line passing through BBY and you've got your "shuttle."
 
Matthew said:
I just don't see the point of pushing for elevated through low-density outlying neighborhoods. There's just no value proposition, and lots of resistance.

Also, why would you run a shuttle from Back Bay to South Station only. Where are you going to turn it? Let's fixup Worcester, electrify it, infill it and run short-turn service to Brighton/Newton. Increase frequencies on every line passing through BBY and you've got your "shuttle."
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That Yawkey doesn't have any Rapid Transit service is a damn shame and pretty unfathomable to me, and the next three stops down the line are in dire need of improvements. And from South Station, build a turn (you're gonna need to move the stop out of the train depot and into South Station Under anyway) and send it down to Fairmount. Call it the Purple Line from Auburndale - Readville.
 
Yawkey has plenty of rapid transit, easy access to Kenmore Under. I'd like to see better service at Yawkey station itself, but that doesn't eliminate the need for a turnaround on the outbound end of the shuttle. They can turn trains at South Station just fine.
 
Do many people transfer at Yawkey to the Green Line via Kenmore?
 
I can't imagine why, if I was going anywhere in back bay I'd get off at back bay station and walk, and if I was going anywhere else I'd either transfer to the orange line at back bay or the red line at south station. The green line is just too slow.
 
I actually did once transfer to the Green line from Yawkey :)

I don't recall seeing anyone else doing the same, but lots of people were boarding at Yawkey. That's what I was thinking about really; the Yawkey area already has decent access to rapid transit as well as the commuter rail.
 
Matthew said:
I actually did once transfer to the Green line from Yawkey :)

I don't recall seeing anyone else doing the same, but lots of people were boarding at Yawkey. That's what I was thinking about really; the Yawkey area already has decent access to rapid transit as well as the commuter rail.
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How long did you have to walk to get to the Green Line from Yawkey? That's what I'm talking about when I say no rapid transit service there. Sure, you can walk, but it's probably a five or ten minute walk and you'll have to make most of it outside, which I'm sure is great in the rain.

Oh, and let's not forget that the Commuter Rail is entirely divorced from the CharlieCard system, so god forbid you wanted the convenience of having your monthly pass on a CharlieCard, you don't get to transfer to Zone 1A without paying for a ticket you already have, which eliminates the easy answer of just transferring onto a Worcester-bound train from Back Bay.
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
How long did you have to walk to get to the Green Line from Yawkey? That's what I'm talking about when I say no rapid transit service there. Sure, you can walk, but it's probably a five or ten minute walk and you'll have to make most of it outside, which I'm sure is great in the rain.
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Yeah, this. We have the same problem here in Providence; Kennedy Plaza (the central bus hub) and the train station are about 10 minutes apart by walking, and are therefore not worth building a streetcar link between. (They're also separated by some unusual geography, making it less feasible yet.) But if you try to do that 10-minute walk in the rain (which I have done), or in wind or snow, it's awful. Your pants get soaked.

That's a real problem that's faced by urban transit planners, imo. You need not only to make your system efficient but also convenient, because, otherwise, people will just keep on driving their cars.
 
Riverside said:
Yeah, this. We have the same problem here in Providence; Kennedy Plaza (the central bus hub) and the train station are about 10 minutes apart by walking, and are therefore not worth building a streetcar link between. (They're also separated by some unusual geography, making it less feasible yet.) But if you try to do that 10-minute walk in the rain (which I have done), or in wind or snow, it's awful. Your pants get soaked.

That's a real problem that's faced by urban transit planners, imo. You need not only to make your system efficient but also convenient, because, otherwise, people will just keep on driving their cars.
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Or you could just make a Park-DTX esque tunnel for foot traffic.

http://g.co/maps/6ccqq

BAM.

(Hell, make this tunnel between Kenmore and Yawkey and I will stop bitching about no subway service there.)
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
How long did you have to walk to get to the Green Line from Yawkey? That's what I'm talking about when I say no rapid transit service there. Sure, you can walk, but it's probably a five or ten minute walk and you'll have to make most of it outside, which I'm sure is great in the rain.
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About 5 minutes, up and over Beacon Street then down the back stairs to Silber Way. But this is quite irrelevant, because Back Bay station is just as close to Copley. And why exactly would someone be transferring from Worcester to Green line? It may happen but it is going to be much rarer than the common case of someone living near Yawkey needing to access the Green line.

Oh, and let's not forget that the Commuter Rail is entirely divorced from the CharlieCard system, so god forbid you wanted the convenience of having your monthly pass on a CharlieCard, you don't get to transfer to Zone 1A without paying for a ticket you already have, which eliminates the easy answer of just transferring onto a Worcester-bound train from Back Bay.
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I would love for the commuter rail ticketing to be integrated with Charlie. If the new smartphone-based system does not achieve this in some fashion, then it is a failure.

What I'm thinking of is a link between your smartphone-based account and your Charlie account that lets you use the CharlieCard on the subway and the smartphone app on the CR.

I would rather have CharlieCard for all but...
 
Matthew said:
About 5 minutes, up and over Beacon Street then down the back stairs to Silber Way. But this is quite irrelevant, because Back Bay station is just as close to Copley. And why exactly would someone be transferring from Worcester to Green line? It may happen but it is going to be much rarer than the common case of someone living near Yawkey needing to access the Green line.
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People who live in Auburndale and want to get to NEU/MFA/That New Wegman's Going up in Chestnut Hill (IIRC? It's definitely somewhere on the Green Line) are straight hosed.

As for Copley/Back Bay, the difference there is that you can go to the Pru instead and not have to ever walk outside. You still pay twice, though.
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
People who live in Auburndale and want to get to NEU/MFA/That New Wegman's Going up in Chestnut Hill (IIRC? It's definitely somewhere on the Green Line) are straight hosed.
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They still would have to go to Copley to get on the "E" train or the 39 bus to get to Northeastern or the MFA.

Or just walk from Yawkey, it'll probably be faster than the "E".
 
CBS, which Green Line branch should serve Yawkey? The C & D run the closest but they're under the Pike a little to the northwest. It could probably be built alongside the future air-rights development on that parcel, but it would be a C/D transfer, not one to the whole Green Line.

And Matthew's right, you can't get to NEU/MFA/Longwood from the Kenmore area by T without backtracking to Copley (the Urban Ring would solve this problem), so any Worcester-liners may as well stay on the Commuter Rail to Back Bay and walk to Prudential or Copley and hop the E line.
 
BussesAin'tTrains said:
CBS, which Green Line branch should serve Yawkey? The C & D run the closest but they're under the Pike a little to the northwest. It could probably be built alongside the future air-rights development on that parcel, but it would be a C/D transfer, not one to the whole Green Line.

And Matthew's right, you can't get to NEU/MFA/Longwood from the Kenmore area by T without backtracking to Copley (the Urban Ring would solve this problem), so any Worcester-liners may as well stay on the Commuter Rail to Back Bay and walk to Prudential or Copley and hop the E line.
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D Line or the Purple Line from Auburndale - Readville.

Or have both lines serve Yawkey and enable transfers between them, and maybe relieve congestion a little on game day.
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
D Line or the Purple Line from Auburndale - Readville.

Or have both lines serve Yawkey and enable transfers between them, and maybe relieve congestion a little on game day.
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Could we have a C/D stop with a transfer to an Indigo Line here? And then have a Park-DTX connection between Kenmore and Yawkey? Or something like what they have in Chicago on the Red and Blue lines between Washington and Jackson, basically extended platforms parallel to the tracks (see here and here). That would connect the Indigo Line with the Green Line, but not requiring digging a whole other tunnel underneath the MassPike.
 
Which thread should this go in?

Some cities are studying whether or not "honor system" systems work for public transportation. Los Angeles estimates it has a 3-5% evasion rate on its light rail and subway system.

Below, results from Denver's light rail system:

RTD believes the threat of people skipping out on the ticket-buying portion of their trips hasn't been a big enough problem — they've counted an estimated 5 percent fare evasion rate — to change the boarding process. And Reed says that most of the system's riders are using pre-paid tickets or passes anyway.
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Nothing annoys me as much as people sneaking on the train. Well, one thing does, and that's everyone having to board at the front of the train so that no one can sneak on the back. Dropping the fare collections obviously still allows people to cheat (I'm looking at you, college kids) but in the interest of speed and efficiency, should we do away with fare boxes (at least above ground?).

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/co...mass-transit-work-better-smaller-cities/1910/
 
Bucharest has very busy buses and trams/light rail and they are also on proof-of-payment (at least, last time I was there, they were)
 
JohnAKeith said:
Which thread should this go in?

Some cities are studying whether or not "honor system" systems work for public transportation. Los Angeles estimates it has a 3-5% evasion rate on its light rail and subway system.

Below, results from Denver's light rail system:



Nothing annoys me as much as people sneaking on the train. Well, one thing does, and that's everyone having to board at the front of the train so that no one can sneak on the back. Dropping the fare collections obviously still allows people to cheat (I'm looking at you, college kids) but in the interest of speed and efficiency, should we do away with fare boxes (at least above ground?).

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/co...mass-transit-work-better-smaller-cities/1910/
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Anything less than 8% or so fare evasion should be considered an acceptible margin of error. You're never going to get 100% compliance anyway - 95% is a great success!

What we should do is take advantage of the same kind of RFID / NFC / Contactless Technology in use already to be able to scan your CharlieCard as you're boarding the train.

We could impliment that technology alongside Platform Edge Door technology, which there is not a pressing need for, but would be a nice preventative measure.

And as an aside, I resent that college kids remark. I'll have you know that I pay the full price for my monthly passes, and I have never once dodged the fare nor have I helped anyone else dodge the fare.
 
When I lived in Heidelberg, Germany, they didn't do fare collection either. People bought passes by the day/week/month/season and carried it with them. Most of the time free-riders could get away with skipping out, but in the event that you DO get caught when the fare checkers board the bus/train, you got slapped with 40€ fine (about $65 at the time). I don't know their evasion rates, but it seemed to work very well. Then again, the Germans in general are more cognizant of making sure society runs smoothly, compared to the individualist "I got mine" attitude that's more common in the states.
 
^ Same in Berlin.

I really wish the MBTA would adapt the open fare method. There is a sense of "honor" with that kind of system, but there is also an equal share of fear of the Kontrol. It works because the BVG highly publicizes the harsh penalty system. There will always be the Schwarzfahrer (literally "black rider" figuratively "ticketless rider") who rides without a ticket, but eventually his luck will run out. The 2€ trip suddenly becomes a 40€ one.

Interestingly enough though, in the 3 months I was there, I never once saw any DB Kontrol on the S-Bahn. I had my ticket (I had a Monatskarte each month) checked sometimes 4 times a day on the U-Bahn though by BVG Kontrol.
 
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