Crazy Transit Pitches

Nexis4jersey said:
1. I agree a the Busway is a Boondoggle it has stalled the Streetcar plans for New Haven , Bridgeport and Stamford. The Ridership is only 14,000 a regular bus can handle that amount. You start talking about busways when Ridership hits 50,000. Hopefully it gets killed , once the project went above 50 million it should have been killed... I don't think the South Coast Rail is a bad idea , as long as the Cape Cod and Newport lines are added right after its built. That part of New England has a growing elderly population and you don't want them to drive , most will not use buses. The Economies of New Bedford , Fall River and Newport could use an inject , down the road anything feeding into a NEC City will have a strong economy. You have to look at projects like that will a long term prospective.

2. I think the Danbury Branch is higher then the Shoreline East Extension to Westerly. Between the Sidings , and Infill stations Ridership is expected to grow to 15,000 or higher depending what goes up in Danbury and Norwalk. The Downtown Master Plans for both cities although super dense housing near the stations.

3. I took the Airport Branch off I don't see a reason for it nor do I ever see becoming reality...a shuttle bus is better...

4. That seems to be a New England problem , Busways are overtaking Rail but instead of being cheaper they end up double of the cost and don't attract much ridership. But i'm sure they find a way to thread the commuter rail through New Britain and too Hartford.

5. I think it should be Electric , infact the entire Eastern System should be Electric based off current and future growth projects. I think the system for Hartford should be a mini RER system , Manchester - Bristol line....and the Knowledge Corridor Commuter rail.

I'll add my opinion later...
Click to expand...


SLE to Westerly is #2 only because it's low-hanging fruit. Not a single upgrade required by CDOT assuming Amtrak is the party raising the platforms at Mystic to high-level, and Westerly layover can be shared by both SLE and RIDOT. It's essentially a 0% capital investment, 100% operating investment for the state. No-brainer to let-er-rip the second RIDOT touches down at Westerly.

As for electrification, it doesn't make sense for the Springfield Line until they zap all the grade crossings south of Hartford. Almost all of them are problematic, whereas north of Hartford it ain't bad. The speed restrictions in Wallingford and Meriden around those crossing clusters are absolutely punitive. I think it's a far better initial investment to pour the money into eliminating the crossings and pushing the line to a uniform 90-110 MPH...THEN string up the wires a decade later. As long as the speed restrictions are there it's going to significantly blunt the electrics advantage. The state talks fancifully about wanting the wires because it's a Big Thing™, which is worrisome because they don't talk about the grade separation. Cart before the horse. It's very much a sequence they have to go through...get uniformly fast diesel first, then fast electrification.

Until Inland HSR comes to town, I don't see frequencies here that merit electrification on any other lines save for Danbury. And even with Danbury I'd hedge on a New Milford diesel extension as first priority since the funding pie is simply not large enough for both in one decade. Off-peak service is going to be light, and outside of maybe a DMU shuttle to Vernon or Bloomfield/Bradley the stop spacing everywhere (including the Springfield Line) is pretty mundane push-pull distance. Do Springfield for sure after they've done their homework with the grade crossings, but otherwise I think diesel is perfectly right-sized here until Amtrak gets ready to build that east-leg HSR segment. Maybe punt the Waterbury Branch out of the Metro North district into the Central CT district if/when Danbury goes electric so the modes are somewhat centralized (Waterbury's the biggest MNRR outlier to begin with, being the only branch shuttle that doesn't have at least a couple thru trains to Grand Central).
 
Western Massachusetts Transit Ideas

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.0004ca20d71a9d7b6a6fe&msa=0&ll=42.108666,-72.534142&spn=0.171924,0.41851&iwloc=0004ca72304386129c477

-Boulevard I-91 Through Downtown Springfield
-Boulevard Part of I-291 through the Downtown
-Boulevard US 5 through West Springfield

Springfield Streetcar Network
-West Springfield Streetcar
-East Longmeadow Streetcar
-Hillcrest Streetcar
-Ludlow Streetcar
-East Longmeadow Connector
-South End Streetcar
-Chicopee Falls Streetcar
-West Springfield via Union Station
-Brightwood Streetcar
-Chicopee Streetcar
-Maple Streetcar
-East - West Connector


-Knowledge Corridor added even more stations...Eventually Electrfied uses Push - Pulls or EMU's , Top Speed 125mph
*Brattleboro
*Greenfield
*South Deerfield
*Northampton
*Holyoke
*Willimansett
*Ferry Lane
*Springfield Waterfront
*Long Meadow
*Thompsonville
*Windsor Locks (moved)
*Windsor
*Hartford Union
*Parkville
*Newington
*Berlin
*Meriden
*Wallingford
*North Haven
*Fair Haven
*New Haven - State Street
*New Haven - Union Station


Cross New England Express - added more Stations - Electrified - Uses Push Pulls , Top speed 125mph
*Schenectady
*Rotterdam
*Roselleville
*Arbor Hill
*Albany - Rensselaer
*Chatham
*Pittsfield
*Westfield
*Wakefield Street
*West Springfield
*Springfield Union
* Indian Orchard
*Palmer
*Worcester
*Framingham
*Back Bay
*South Station


Central Corridor - Diesel , Uses DMUs , top speed 80mph
*Brattleboro
*Millers Falls
*Amherst
*Three Rivers
*Palmer
*Monson
*Stafford Springs
*Willimantic
*Norwich
*Mohegan
*New London

Williamstown Branch - Electrified uses EMU's , Top Speed 80mph
*Williamstown
*North Adams
*Shelbourne Falls
*Greenfield
*South Deerfield
*Northampton
*Holyoke
*Willimansett
*Ferry Lane
*Springfield Waterfront

Greenfield / Fitchburg line - Converts to DMU's Top speed increased to 90mph
North Station
Porter SQ
*Alewife Brook Parkway
Belmont
Waverly
Waltham
Brandeis/Roberts
Kendal Green
Hastings
Silver Hill
Lincoln
Concord
West Concord
South Acton
Littleton/Route 495
Ayer
Shirley
North Leominster
Fitchburg
*West Wachusetts
*Gardner
*Athol
*Orange
*Greenfield
 
Nexis4jersey said:
-Boulevard I-91 Through Downtown Springfield
-Boulevard Part of I-291 through the Downtown
-Boulevard US 5 through West Springfield
Click to expand...


I agree that all three should not be surface/elevated highways, but I don't think you can boulevard a primary interstate (I-91). I think tunneling, rerouting to through West Springfield or dealing with a giant barrier to the waterfront are the only three options.
 
bigeman312 said:
I agree that all three should not be surface/elevated highways, but I don't think you can boulevard a primary interstate (I-91). I think tunneling, rerouting to through West Springfield or dealing with a giant barrier to the waterfront are the only three options.
Click to expand...

Tunnel I-91 , Boulevard I-291 and US 5....
 
New Crazy Transit Pitch:
Plymouth
Existing service is to Cordage Park which is a lousy location. Proximity to Kingston Station and low frequency of trains make it crappy for commuters and tourists. After Boston, Plymouth is one of the most important tourist destinations. Salem shows how good rail and ferry connections can draw throngs of tourists from who primarily came to see Boston.
Here's the pitch. Tear out the bike path between Cordage Park and Nelson Street Park and reinstall rail. Continue tracks and create new intermodal station near the center of town and waterfront on empty (probably contaminated) lot and parking lot at intersection of Water and Lothrop, by the Radisson. Total distance, about 2 miles and a world of difference.
Likelihood of happening. Zero. Too bad though, as Plymouth does a poor job of capturing Boston visitors that are not driving.
 
Semass said:
New Crazy Transit Pitch:
Plymouth
Existing service is to Cordage Park which is a lousy location. Proximity to Kingston Station and low frequency of trains make it crappy for commuters and tourists. After Boston, Plymouth is one of the most important tourist destinations. Salem shows how good rail and ferry connections can draw throngs of tourists from who primarily came to see Boston.
Here's the pitch. Tear out the bike path between Cordage Park and Nelson Street Park and reinstall rail. Continue tracks and create new intermodal station near the center of town and waterfront on empty (probably contaminated) lot and parking lot at intersection of Water and Lothrop, by the Radisson. Total distance, about 2 miles and a world of difference.
Likelihood of happening. Zero. Too bad though, as Plymouth does a poor job of capturing Boston visitors that are not driving.
Click to expand...

Too bad bike paths are like salted earth and basically inpossible to get rid of.

But, hey, as I understand it, the ONLY difference between the Plymouth and Kingston trains is that one final stop, right?

And, hey, poor headways to either terminus is hurting traffic at both of them, yeah?

And if we ever get MBTA service of any description into Kingston, RI, then having trains bound for "Kingston" is going to get really confusing, really fast...

So here's my counter-pitch: just axe Kingston and run all those trains over to Plymouth instead!
 
The Kingston (Mass.) station is very convenient from the expressway. Plymouth is less so. There is some interest in the community to axe the Plymouth Branch altogether to improve service to Kingston and clarify/stream the schedule and save money. The Kingston service is not hurting, but it is really confusing if you are not used to the schedule.
If you could extend all the way to Plymouth Center, then it would be well worth looking at service levels.
 
I think axing Plymouth is a mistake , it should be extended to the town center and made into a Muti Transit hub with connections to Ferry and Bus services... Same should and will be done in Fall River , New Bedford , Newburyport , Portsmouth and Quonset....
 
Why not have a Kingston station at 3A or 27? The current station is only marginally closer to Route 3 as it is.
 
omaja said:
Why not have a Kingston station at 3A or 27? The current station is only marginally closer to Route 3 as it is.
Click to expand...

The old station from the Old Colony days is on 3A, still standing as Solstice Restaurant: http://goo.gl/maps/hgttL. Much more convenient to downtown Kingston, no less convenient to 3.

But the parking goddess...she is a jealous mistress. So the sand pits it was.
 
That's what I thought! How ass backwards and typically South Shore.
 
omaja said:
That's what I thought! How ass backwards and typically South Shore.
Click to expand...

Yep. Abington's got one too: http://goo.gl/maps/CRXY8. Right on 139 a block away from 58 and three blocks away from 18. The new station's a mile and a half south of downtown. South Weymouth, ditto: http://goo.gl/maps/T7Wpd. Old station's at the intersection of Derby and Pond a block away from 18. New one's a mile away on the access road to the base.

At Hanson they at least did the new one across the street from the old brick depot: http://goo.gl/maps/4UjN3. And at Whitman they made an adjacent park out of the steam loco turntable at the original station's demolished roundhouse: http://goo.gl/maps/M2N60.
 
omaja said:
That's what I thought! How ass backwards and typically South Shore.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. The population within a reasonable walk/bike of the old Kingston Center station is pretty low. Many riders on the line do not come from Kingston, but Plymouth, Duxbury, etc. They need to park someplace and there is no room in Kingston Center. The sand pit has spaces for 1000 cars and good highway access.
 
Again, the Kingston station isn't much farther from 3 than the current Plymouth one and there's plenty of parking and space for additional parking there. Not to mention, if you nix the Kingston branch there's the added benefit of greater frequency into Plymouth Center, should the MBTA deign to do the right thing and actually serve communities instead of car parks.
 
omaja said:
Again, the Kingston station isn't much farther from 3 than the current Plymouth one and there's plenty of parking and space for additional parking there. Not to mention, if you nix the Kingston branch there's the added benefit of greater frequency into Plymouth Center, should the MBTA deign to do the right thing and actually serve communities instead of car parks.
Click to expand...

A quick investigation on (mobile) Google Maps appears to reveal that Plymouth is actually MORE accessible to Route 3 than Kingston - the closer proximity of Kingston is negated by the fact that you need to make several turns in quick succession to get there whereas Plymouth is more or less a straight shot down 3A.

Parking lots can be converted into garages, too, and a commuter rail station honestly feels like one of the most appropriate places you could build a garage.

So... why not axe Kingston and garage-ize Plymouth's parking lot? Safe(r), weatherproofed parking and an easier ride, plus more consistent train scheduling should be enough to win over people parking at Kingston.
 
Sounds like that puts a nail in the coffin of Lynn Blue Line. If they're going to spend all of that money to dredge their harbor for a ferry, it surely is no more expensive to simply run the Blue Line to Lynn.
 
b-line200 said:
Sounds like that puts a nail in the coffin of Lynn Blue Line. If they're going to spend all of that money to dredge their harbor for a ferry, it surely is no more expensive to simply run the Blue Line to Lynn.
Click to expand...

The ferry is a fraction of the Blue Line cost.

My only problem with it is: it doesn't serve a population center. In fact, it doesn't even serve a population, period. It is very industrial, bombed out, has random commercial mega-lots, gas stations, a sewerage treatment plant, an electrical substation, etc. To add further insult, there isn't going to be terribly much parking (I'd say significantly less than Oak Grove), nor are there plans for a connecting bus service, so the whole thing just stinks to high heavens.

This would be so much better if they put it as close to Market St as they possibly can, plus downgrade the Lynnway from pseudo-highway to boulevard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top