Crazy Transit Pitches

CSTH said:
I was hoping you'd ask.

#1: Put three bus drivers and a mechanic in a windowless room near the docks in Charlestown and get them to count it for me (and give me an estimate to within the closest ~100k of how much of it is already missing).

#2: Moar BRT

#3: Call in sick
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Ba Da Bing......
 
mass88 said:
You're given complete control over the MBTA and a budget of say $10 Billion. What are you top 3 projects you get done first?
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Here's mine
Subway
- $2B BLX from Wonderland to Lynn Riverworks and Lynn Center
- $0.5B Red-Blue Connector @MGH
- $1.5B SSX & NSX (MBTA Share)
- $1B for Red from JFK to Widett/SBBypass to NSRL
- $4B NSRL as RedX terminating near Lechmere/Community College/Urban Ring
- Leave CR side of NSRL ready for rail & signals

Urban Ring
- $1B Urban Ring
-- Longwood
-- Yawkey
-- Grand Junction / MIT
-- Kendall
-- Lechmere
-- RedX Terminus
-- Sullivan Sq
 
CSTH said:
I was hoping you'd ask.

#1: Put three bus drivers and a mechanic in a windowless room near the docks in Charlestown and get them to count it for me (and give me an estimate to within the closest ~100k of how much of it is already missing).

#2: Moar BRT

#3: Call in sick
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Good ideas. I was expecting you to propose we widen 93 from 8 lanes to 28 lanes.
 
mass88 said:
You're given complete control over the MBTA and a budget of say $10 Billion. What are you top 3 projects you get done first?
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Ok, its in an interesting question so here's a serious answer. Like Arlington I'm going to focus on the 10B rather than the 3 projects. Call it 'Heavyx, CRX, and the Emerald Network:


$2.5B | Heavy X: Heavy Transit Expansion
- $2B BLX from Wonderland to Lynn Riverworks and Lynn Center
- $0.5B Red-Blue Connector @MGH

$5B | Commuter Rail Expansion
- $1.5B SSX & NSX (MBTA Share)
- $3.5B CR NSRL (Tunnel + Electrification + Rolling Stock)

$2.5B | Emerald Network
- The stuff we've talked about on the GL page...all on the surface to save money:
... Riverside to Seaport via Stuart St w/ Portal @ southbay
... Harvard to Kenmore via Allson
... NS to Kendall / MIT / Symphony / Mass Ave (OL) via Lechmere & Harvard Bridge (w/dediated bus & light rail lane on Mass Ave.).
 
CSTH said:
Ok, its in an interesting question so here's a serious answer. Like Arlington I'm going to focus on the 10B rather than the 3 projects. Call it 'Heavyx, CRX, and the Emerald Network:


$2.5B | Heavy X: Heavy Transit Expansion
- $2B BLX from Wonderland to Lynn Riverworks and Lynn Center
- $0.5B Red-Blue Connector @MGH

$5B | Commuter Rail Expansion
- $1.5B SSX & NSX (MBTA Share)
- $3.5B CR NSRL (Tunnel + Electrification + Rolling Stock)
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Spending 2 billion on Blue to Lynn seems crazy if we're only spending 3.5b to do all of the NSRL and buy the required electrification/rolling stock. I'm not 100% familiar with the most recent cost estimates for either project, but it also seems way too low for the NSRL costs. If we're definitely doing the link in the near future then I don't see the benefit of Blue to Lynn which just provides a one seat ride for central square Lynn/North Shore busses/the Lynnway to East Boston and a small part of downtown, and easier subway transfers for two seat rides. Whereas with Indigo EMUs through the link you get the same thing plus:

  • High frequencies serving North Shore's other cities and higher reverse commute potential (Chelsea, Lynn, Salem, and then Beverly or Peabody/Danvers)
  • One seat ride to North Station, South Station, and then whatever the southside stations are (Worcester line to Back Bay, Riverside, etc. or NEC/ Fairmount to Readville)
  • Two seat riders get cross platform transfers at North/South Station for CR and other Indigo EMUs, but now have slightly more difficult transfers to subway
  • Cheap infill stops at Salem State/South Salem and the ability to express existing commuter rail

Personally, I think you have to do the projects which have the biggest constraints on current capacity and operations, then focus on system expansion using whatever's left plus future funding sources. (Assuming we ever get capital money again after this) Also have to consider whether this is just to improve the T, or is to improve transportation for the whole state and region. I.E Amtrak needs NEC capacity beyond just SSX, so projects like Orange absorbing Needham and the Springfield-Boston HSR inland route (also appeases Western Mass) are more important.
Must do ASAP projects (1.5b)
  1. Blue-Red transfer (.5b)
  2. South Station expansion (1b)

That leaves you at least $8 billion to do some of the following ( there REALLY needs to be a single post or thread with their costs somewhere as a reference, Ive spent an hour searching the site and Googling but didn't find much):

Important to the T/Greater Boston
  • Green Line Reconfiguration (connect to SS/Seaport, improve existing service by burying parts of B and E, urban ring expand branchesto Porter, Dudley, Harvard)
  • NSRL and electrification in phases (Focus on Pvd/Wor/Eastern/Lowell, no central station and only one tube at first)
  • Indigo as either DMU or EMUs for Fairmount, Worcester infills to Riverside , Anderson RTC, and the Eastern Route to Lynn/Salem and potentially Peabody/Danvers)

Important to Amtrak and the greater region, but not really the T
  • Inland Route between Spg/Wor/Bos (double track route, at least 79 MPH to start but should aim for 125 eventually)
  • OLX to Needham opens up NEC capacity for Amtrak and the T
 
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Reasons the NSRL Link should not stop the BLX from happening

-the potential frequencies that the blue line can provide are far greater than even the best case scenario for commuter rail i.e. the blue line could easily handle four minute or even three minute rush hour frequencies the commuter rail even with all the upgrades is capped around a 15 minute headway

-Lynn is as dense as Brookline as a whole at over 8,000 people per square mile (ppsm) and the areas near where the Blue Line would be located average a density of 20,000-30,000 ppsm which is equal to Cambridge for example which has both commuter rail and subway service

-commuter rail and the Blue Line serve different areas of downtown and the Blue Line would serve MGH because if BLX to Lynn happens BLX to MGH has to happen to keep Government Center Station/the Green Line from being overwhelmed by the additional riders being thrown into the core transfer nodes
 
Scipio said:
Hopefully we get more details beyond this blurry slide. It looks like they are proposing a walking and biking deck over the top of the existing road, a bus tunnel built into existing buildings alongside, and rail in a tunnel beneath? Very high modernist of them.
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I've often wondered whether that's the long term solution to most of our problems. We don't have anymore room between existing structures, and tunneling underneath is very costly. Why not deck above for the lightest weight users, making more room at the lowest level for busway or rail reservations. Imagine the space provided by not having sidewalks on the lower level.
 
MBTA expansion and upgrades

mass88 said:
You're given complete control over the MBTA and a budget of say $10 Billion.
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I'd start by prioritizing non-tunneling projects ahead of tunneling projects.

Some non-tunneling projects to start with:

  • I'd make sure that every drain cover in the floor indoors at street level in the east headhouse at Davis Square is solidly screwed in place and reasonably level with the rest of the floor.
  • I'd deploy transit signal priority technology for all the key bus routes.
  • I'd build enough bus garage infrastructure to have 1000 more buses in the fleet than we have now, set up the new bus garages for battery buses and not diesel (or hybrid) buses, and start taking delivery of about 200 new battery buses per year (with the bus garages being built to be completed around the time their buses would start to be delivered). I'd look at whether there was any parking in Waltham near major power infrastructure that is currently used to store vehicles that are a lot less valuable and less frequently used than buses, I might consider decking over the Mattapan yard and storing buses on the upper level, and I might look at Wellington as a possible location.
  • If I could spend money on the RTAs, I'd also be interested in buying battery buses with a goal of having 15 minute headways on some RTA routes, like Gardner to Greenfield (this takes about 90 minutes and involves a bus change in Athol and is currently infrequent; I'd probably make it run express from Templeton to the Athol Market Basket to speed it up a bit), Pittsfield to North Adams to Williamstown, maybe Lowell to Leominster, probably Fitchburg to Worcester via Leominster, probably Lowell to Lawrence to Haverhill to Newburyport, etc.
  • I'd build new pedestrian underpasses crossing the Orange Line and commuter rail / Amtrak tracks between Ruggles and Mass Ave, demolish the pedestrian overpasses, and then build a busway above the commuter rail / Amtrak tracks from Ruggles Station to Massachusetts Avenue, where we hope to have bus lanes. With this plus the additional buses and bus garages, I'd then extend 23 to Central Sq and maybe even Harvard Sq, and extend 28 to Kendall and Lechmere.
  • I'd rebuild the northern end of Babcock St to be maybe 20' higher so that I could then build a busway bridge above the West Station commuter rail platforms, and have that continue along a transitway to be shared with the A branch of the Green Line toward Harvard Square in Cambridge.
  • I'd build a bridge from near the souternmost point on Inner Belt Road in Somerville to somewhere near Water St, so that the extended 28 could go past Lechmere to Sullivan (and possibly into Everett).
  • I'd order several copies of a battery powered ferry that would basically be a scaled down, passenger only version of M/F Ampere: enough to run 15 minute headways between Hingham and Long Wharf, plus two for the Charlestown route, plus one spare. I'd probably want to specify enough battery capacity for about 4 round trips between Boston and Hingham on a single charge.
  • I'd order a pair of ferries that would each be capable of carrying a pair of 60 foot buses plus a bunch of pedestrians and bicyclists, and build docks for them at Charlestown Navy Yard and Lo Presti Park to extend bus route 89 to Maverick and Logan Airport.
  • I'd rebuild the west of Kenmore B and C branch stations for four car trains and wheelchair accessibility, and probably try to put stops at the far sides of intersections as much as possible, and get transit signal priority technology deployed in these areas.
  • I'd figure out how to take enough street space for platforms to make Mission Park and Riverway wheelchair accessible and have these stations handle four car trains. I'd build a new platform on the east side of South Huntington just south of Heath St long enough for four car trains, and use that as the new E branch terminus, changing ends instead of looping. Or maybe I'd even work out a deal with the Angell folks to put a yard on a bit of their land and add another station just south of Bynner St. And I'd think about deploying transit signal priority technology along the E branch route.
  • I'd finish the Green Line Extension to Tufts University / College Ave in Medford and Union Sq in Somerville.
  • I'd build the Green Line branch to Upper Falls and Needham, with a yard in the vicinity of Needham Junction.
  • I'd build a Green Line branch to Sullivan, the casino, and the Chelsea transitway, and try to find space for a yard somewhere between Broadway and Eastern Ave.
  • I'd extend the Orange Line to West Roxbury.
  • I'd build a commuter rail platform at Sullivan.
  • I'd make sure that every commuter rail station with at least 100 weekday boardings was wheelchair accessible.
  • I'd double track Readville to Walpole, probably with full length high level platforms on one side (which would get used for all peak direction trains) and mini-highs on the other side (reverse peak trains and freight).
  • I'd double track anything from Haverhill to the Wildcat branch which is currently single track, quite possibly with the exception of the Merrimack River crossing.
  • I'd double track any parts of the South Station to Middleboro Junction route that could be done without tunneling or other similarly expensive measures.
  • I might well build stations to support South Coast Rail via Middleboro.
  • I'd look at whether I could build a 3% max grade double track alignment roughly along I-90 from approximately Dark Brook in Auburn to approximately the Quabaog River, and whether that could get Springfield to Back Bay under 90 minutes and make that a viable commuter rail route.
  • I'd probably build some additional commuter rail yard and maintenance infrastructure.

Tunnel projects:

  • Blue to Charles / MGH (followed by not-tunnel Blue to Lynn and maybe Salem and maybe even Marblehead).
  • Red station under Mass Ave between Davis and Alewife for better connections to 77.
  • Red to Arlington Center and Arlington Heights (and maybe non-tunnel extended to Lexington).
  • Green tunnel near BU to facilitate Grand Junction connection.
  • Green Pleasant St Incline, South Station transitway portal and extension to Black Falcon Terminal, and possible Green tunnel at Dudley (along with tracks along Washington St, and along Melnea Cass Blvd and Ruggles St from Washington St to Huntington).
  • D-E connector, possibly via Longwood Ave.
  • Green Line along McGrath and Mystic Ave (the Lowell Line to McGrath junction may involve a bit of tunneling).
  • Finish double tracking South Station to Middleboro.
  • NSRL.
 
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Modernize and automate as much as possible. The savings and improved performance from that should make expansion more effective afterward.
 
Joel N. Weber II said:
  • I'd look at whether I could build a 3% max grade double track alignment roughly along I-90 from approximately Dark Brook in Auburn to approximately the Quabaog River, and whether that could get Springfield to Back Bay under 90 minutes and make that a viable commuter rail route.
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Just doing the Auburn-East Brookfield section should be a big improvement over what's there now, and some other minor improvements should get you pretty close to 90mins. Would require 110-120mph running though.

KlY4gK7.jpg
 
Scalziand said:
Just doing the Auburn-East Brookfield section should be a big improvement over what's there now, and some other minor improvements should get you pretty close to 90mins. Would require 110-120mph running though.

KlY4gK7.jpg
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That nice red line belies some rough gradients, H2O crossings, and residential eminent domain. Would be a huge PITA.
 
Re: Springfield to Boston commuter rail

I certainly expect that if we had a 90 minute or faster train trip from Springfield to downtown Boston that it would probably have a top speed exceeding what the MBTA's current commuter rail rolling stock is capable of; when I think about Springfield to Boston commuter rail, the key feature is that it achieve a 90 minute or better trip time, and I don't think of commuter rail as having any inherent requirement to not be high speed rail, even if it's hard to find existing examples of high speed commuter rail. (Cheap solar panels ought to be able to make the high energy consumption cost effective.)

http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mass-pike/ claims that the Mass Pike was supposed to be built with a grade not exceeding 3%, and https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2017/02/19/where-is-electrification-warranted/ claims modern EMUs can easily climb 4% grades; those things combined seem to suggest that building track along the Pike's alignment shouldn't run into excessive grade problems (although we don't know if FRA crashworthiness requirements and/or adding batteries to the EMUs might chip away at that 4%).

It seems that the Pike crosses the Quabaog River twice: once at the Brimfield / Palmer border, and then again in Palmer just west of highway 181. In the minimal build scenario of bypassing only part of the traditional Boston and Albany Railroad, I'm thinking of having the new tracks immediately to the south of I-90 just east of the Brimfield / Palmer border, such that a westbound train would start to diverge from I-90 around the Washington Rd / Millbrook Rd intersection in Brimfield. There's then an annoying tradeoff involving having as gentle a curve as possible for the benefit of the many who live in Springfield vs having a sharp curve to try to keep the trains away from a handful of existing homes.
 
Re: MBTA expansion and upgrades

Joel N. Weber II said:
  • I'd order a pair of ferries that would each be capable of carrying a pair of 60 foot buses plus a bunch of pedestrians and bicyclists, and build docks for them at Charlestown Navy Yard and Lo Presti Park to extend bus route 89 to Maverick and Logan Airport.
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On further thought, maybe a low, movable bridge from Sumner St in East Boston to Pier 6 / 8th Ave in Charlestown would be a better approach than a ferry.

Tunnel projects:
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And I forgot the Porter / Watertown branch Green Line extension when writing that the last time around, I think because I had mentioned the non-tunnel Somerville Union Sq Green Line extension and so that branch had gotten mentioned.

Red to Randolph and Orange to Reading also have some appeal, but I'm not sure if they actually make the list.

And some possibly appealing commuter rail expansion:

  • Peabody / Danvers
  • Gardner to Boston via Worcester (or maybe by building track from Wachusett Station to Gardner largely along Route 2, but that highway may have steep grades, and if the Lake Shore Limited can cover Worcester to Boston in about an hour, I suspect that simply using the existing track from Worcester to Gardner has a decent chance of providing reasonable Gardner to Boston travel time, though making it run smoothly probably requires a bit of new elevated track in Worcester along with a new platform, since the current Worcester platform does not connect directly towards Gardner)
  • Webster to Boston via Worcester
  • Amherst to Boston via Palmer and Worcester
  • Additional Dover, NH to Boston trips during peak commute times; there's a 5:00 PM Boston / 6:30 PM Dover trip that demonstrates it can be done in 90 minutes. (Having an early morning southbound trip originate in Dover might well make transportation sense, but of course it's unlikely to get political support anytime soon.)
  • Nashua / Manchester
  • north Easton
  • build a new park and ride station on the Plymouth mainline so that the existing Kingston park and ride can be abandoned
 
Just for kicks, as a crazy challenge: If you were to connect Hull by either light rail or heavy rail, or commuter (but thats not as fun), how would you do it?
 
Quincy-based streetcar network - almost certainly existed decades ago! - a route from Quincy Center down Washington/3A to Hingham and up to Nantasket/Hull.

Beyond streetcars I don't know how you'd get light rail there unless there is room next to the Greenbish ROW, which I doubt.
 
Shepard said:
Quincy-based streetcar network - almost certainly existed decades ago! - a route from Quincy Center down Washington/3A to Hingham and up to Nantasket/Hull.

Beyond streetcars I don't know how you'd get light rail there unless there is room next to the Greenbish ROW, which I doubt.
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How about you run it along Hancock up to N. Quincy, which would give you a little more room to build a terminus. I'd also say, where possible, bury it, particularly along 3a in Quincy/Weymouth (to help avoid the Fore River bridge).
 
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