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Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

Coyote137 said:
Save your illogical rantings against Democrats, unions, and public employees for someone else. Michael Tanner writes for the Cato Institute, which tells you how unbiased he is.

If you think globalization had nothing to do with the auto industry leaving town, you're delusional.
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This is not about Democrats or Republicans. Both parties are the same.
We are all in this together which people seem to forget.

#1
Globalization? If a successful corporation is making major cuts, or has to reinvent themselves to support a major city. This is a no-brainer to work with the Unions to help understand that Bailouts and stimulus packages only suffocate real innovation from free thinkers.

Free Trade is probably what really destroyed the working class along with the Federal Reserve devaluing our currency.

But let’s get one thing straight GOVT destroyed Detroit not Globalization.

Most cities adapt.....Corruption is what ended Detroit's soul.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

Coyote137 said:
I'm assuming this is a response to me. I'm not sure what you mean by "democrats"
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Use your thinking cap, what in the world does somebody in the United States mean when he uses the term "democrat?" Pizza? It's self explanatory.

Coyote137 said:
....but certainly there was a lack of effective leadership in Detroit.
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Democrats have controlled Detroit for the past 50 years. Yes, this includes city councilors, mayors, people on the school board, etc.... You gotta acknowledge this buddy boy.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

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Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

armpitsOFmight said:
Use your thinking cap, what in the world does somebody in the United States mean when he uses the term "democrat?" Pizza? It's self explanatory.



Democrats have controlled Detroit for the past 50 years. Yes, this includes city councilors, mayors, people on the school board, etc.... You gotta acknowledge this buddy boy.
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I'm glad we're buddies. When I move back to Boston next month I'll have to grab a couple beers with you down at The Tam.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

I'm glad we're buddies. When I move back to Boston next month I'll have to grab a couple beers with you down at The Tam.
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Urban planning, wonky politics, and architecture night at The Tam. Sign me up.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

TheRifleman said:
Free Trade is probably what really destroyed the working class along with the Federal Reserve devaluing our currency.

But let’s get one thing straight GOVT destroyed Detroit not Globalization.
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Well what do you know? Free trade (minimal government interference) is bad and so is more government interference.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

KentXie said:
Well what do you know? Free trade (minimal government interference) is bad and so is more government interference.
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Free trade is not considered minimal govt interference when you have a private organization dictating the value of your labor power (currency) called the Federal Reserve Bank.

How can you have free trade when the playing field is not Level.
China's average cost per employee is 10 dollars a month
U.S. Worker average monthly pay 2000+ healthcare costs

How can you compete with this type of labor costs? Now you know why every corporation when running overseas.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

Still going on with the Detroit thing.
Too many eggs, one basket.
No forward thinking.
All those eggs in a too strong Union that sold out its future for its present.
White flight (and general move from urban centers to burbs) as seen across the country at the time.

Boston had a couple more baskets.
Boston had poor forward thinking that took decades to overcome.
Too strong unions still an issue.
White flight put our great city on the brink as well as well as the consolidation and take overs of our big corporate office tenants. (Boston and Newark and Detroit weren't that much different for a time, but one of us was able to climb back out. Yes, in part, due to our higher learning institutes and the tech markets they bred.)

Of course globalization played a big part in the failure of Detroit. Also, that failure (or inability) to adapt as mentioned above did. To say America couldn't build a competitive car is naive, we didn't forget overnight. America couldn't afford to build competitive cars with the structure of our big 3 (still 4 or 5 at the time.) That FACT has been clearly explained many times over the years.

Now, that general move is people are wanting to live in cities again, and we are starting to finally build homes for them (hey look I'm back on topic.) The main question I have about that, is will it ever be affordable? It doesn't look promising through these eyes. But, it is obviously affordable to some folks. Up here I see it as a vicious cycle. City government does not allow for supply to meet demand. This keeps rents and costs high. Maybe they feel they are being cautious, who knows? Lenders and builders are also cautious, as they want to make sure they see profit on their investments (must be in our New England blood because it obviously doesn't stop them down in Miami or Charlotte). Labor is too high up here ( particularly in the City where Union labor is a guarantee), which further inflates the cost of our already inflated cost of living and buying homes. Of course when a developer comes along and wants to invest money, that same cautious government comes in and throws wrenches in the mix and makes a project smaller, have less units, or any number of things which inflate the cost of construction for less units which continue to drive up the cost per unit.

Until any or all of these things change, Boston will not gain real residents at the rate it could and should. But, people are still making money in this scenario, so why change it until we find out in a couple decades we screwed ourselves again.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

TheRifleman said:
Free trade is not considered minimal govt interference when you have a private organization dictating the value of your labor power (currency) called the Federal Reserve Bank.

How can you have free trade when the playing field is not Level.
China's average cost per employee is 10 dollars a month
U.S. Worker average monthly pay 2000+ healthcare costs

How can you compete with this type of labor costs? Now you know why every corporation when running overseas.
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1) I'm sorry but that's exactly how free trade works. If it costs more to produce Item 1 in Country A than it does in Country B, then Country B has what it is called a competitive advantage, in which case it makes more sense for Country B to produce that item and Country A to produce something it has a competitive advantage over B. It has nothing to do with the underlying costs of the factors of production. You can't call it free trade when your country has a competitive advantage against another and then not call it free trade when the situation is the other way around. It doesn't work that way.

2) Another reason why your argument is weak is because you criticize the eroding value of the US dollar by the Feds BUT criticize the fact that US labor costs so much. If anything, if you want to "level the playing field more," you would wish that the Feds continue to erode it further as it makes the real cost of labor and, subsequently, of US products cheaper and thus more competitive against oversea goods.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

KENTXIE this is just for you.


7 U.S. Cities on the Verge of Bankruptcy

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/war/news.php?q=1319562351


No seriously its globalization: How about cut spending and the lifetime pension spigots thats why the private citizens of Detroit are eating dog food and are uneducated as the political class are enjoying there pensions.
 
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Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

TheRifleman said:
KENTXIE this is just for you.


7 U.S. Cities on the Verge of Bankruptcy

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/government/war/news.php?q=1319562351


No seriously its globalization: How about cut spending and the lifetime pension spigots thats why the private citizens of Detroit are eating dog food and are uneducated as the political class are enjoying there pensions.
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Would you be able to tell me if those stats/assertions were published before or after the hostr of that Website posted this?

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_...l/news.php?q=440c247f6b9ce8905bfba735f5f3ccdc
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

Okay, lets give this off-topic thing one more roll. Let's not argue about budget shortfalls with bankruptcy because I think it is reasonable to agree that "time * borrowing = fail" when time is big enough. I think everyone can agree to that.

But lets' try and tie this to Boston then drive this thread off the cliff flaming about the US government and municipal budgets.

Somehow Boston is prospering. To my knowledge, for 2012, Boston manage to make a small surplus (I know in the link, it might not be likable that the surplus is going to be immediately spent rather than saved, but remember the topic is how is Boston even pulled this off while Detroit went the opposite and even prospering cities are on the list you linked).

To add a qualifier, we should remember the budget issues of San Fran or LA can have very different reasons than Detroit. Looking at the prosperity of San Fran and you can argument that it is a city management problem. But look at Detroit, you have to admit it is large number of other variables that exist affecting the budget of that city.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

jdrinboston said:
Would you be able to tell me if those stats/assertions were published before or after the hostr of that Website posted this?

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_...l/news.php?q=440c247f6b9ce8905bfba735f5f3ccdc
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To be fair, that site might be a joke. But when I was checking Google to check Boston's budget before I make my previous post. I did found this:

http://www.economist.com/node/13745782

I think The Economist is much more credible and seems to fits with TheRifleman's point. It included Boston as a city of budget issue, but it seems 2012 no longer has that problem while that article was published in 2009 in the depth of the recession. So I didn't bother to mention it as it was out of date. But it does validates some of TheRiffleman's point despite his choice of websites.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

Are we really worried about Boston becoming the next Detroit? I'm certainly sympathetic to Rman's political inclinations and the general thrust of his concerns regarding Detroit, but there's just so little the two cities have in common. Boston, for all its troubles, is not supported by one major industry at the expense of almost all others. It has long been a center of higher learning, and is strongly supported, as we all know, by a myriad of industries which are connected (the various medical industries, financial industries, etc. etc.). Not to mention tourism and Boston's port facilities (which are significantly larger than Detroit's). Further, despite my disagreements with much of the political establishment in the Bay state and Boston, they've done far less damage to Boston than their counterparts did to Detroit, and, amazingly enough, seem to be (at least on a municipal level) less corrupt.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

DominusNovus said:
Are we really worried about Boston becoming the next Detroit? I'm certainly sympathetic to Rman's political inclinations and the general thrust of his concerns regarding Detroit, but there's just so little the two cities have in common. Boston, for all its troubles, is not supported by one major industry at the expense of almost all others. It has long been a center of higher learning, and is strongly supported, as we all know, by a myriad of industries which are connected (the various medical industries, financial industries, etc. etc.). Not to mention tourism and Boston's port facilities (which are significantly larger than Detroit's). Further, despite my disagreements with much of the political establishment in the Bay state and Boston, they've done far less damage to Boston than their counterparts did to Detroit, and, amazingly enough, seem to be (at least on a municipal level) less corrupt.
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My point wasn't does Boston become like Detroit in the future because of the Muni's. My point is without Cambridge Ma (MIT & Harvard) Boston would be an upgrade from Detroit.
MIT=Kendall Square=== Biotech Boom (Cambridge is the World's Leader in Life Sciences)
The College boom for the city of Boston is unprecented. Mayor Menino has been very fortunate to serve as Mayor as we have had the biggest college boom (possibly the biggest of the bubbles)

If MIT or Harvard were not located in Cambridge I would predict things would be very different including a very high unemployement & crime rate in the city of Boston.

Cambridge Ma is the reason for Boston Success nothing else

"just look at the domino from Cambridge into Somerville" Both cities made best places to live Cambridge is #1 and Somerville #6 on the Boston Globe.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

The above is silly. Plain and simple.

It's not Cambridge that makes it. Cambridge is only Cambridge because of the age of this area. If Massachusetts was out west, it would all be one big city. Boston, Quincy, Cambridge, Slummerville, etc.

It's a non-argument. Where did MIT start? In Boston. Moved to Cambridge not because they were more forward thinking, Moved so they could have room to expand.
Harvard is a Boston Institution, just happens to reside more in the confines of Cambridge. Take away "Cambridge", and both of those vaunted Universities sit in Boston.

If Cambridge were wiped off the map tomorrow, and a big black hole took it's place. First, I'd need a new job. Second, your points might become valid.

Or, on the other side. Without Boston, Cambridge would be anywhere USA. More valid point. Boston is the Alpha city, the world city, Cambridge is West Boston with it's own Mayor. They may do some things better, and some things worse. But, they prosper because this is the seat of government in MA and the driving city in New England. Yes, the other Universities in the area gain from the reps of HU and MIT. Although lumping Suffolk and Emerson into that equation is a little silly. BC would be a fine elitist U without either of them. BU would be like any other big city University. NU, I'm not sure. Of the biggies, it might enjoy the most trickle down from MIT as an "engineering" school although they have diversified now so much it no longer matters, but they were built on that.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

^^^
Agree.........So if you took away MIT & Harvard which both schools are located in Cambridge---and both have unlimited money.

The future of Boston would be a better version of Detroit on the ocean.
 
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Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

ant8904 said:
To be fair, that site might be a joke. But when I was checking Google to check Boston's budget before I make my previous post. I did found this:

http://www.economist.com/node/13745782

I think The Economist is much more credible and seems to fits with TheRifleman's point. It included Boston as a city of budget issue, but it seems 2012 no longer has that problem while that article was published in 2009 in the depth of the recession. So I didn't bother to mention it as it was out of date. But it does validates some of TheRiffleman's point despite his choice of websites.
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Please note that nobody is saying unions don't have an impact on the economy of Detroit. That much we know, but note the inconsistency in Rifleman's argument. He first puts the blame on Detroit's economy on the government and government alone only to later espouse the problem of NAFTA (or free trade in general) and issues with remaining competitive in a competitive environment (which are globalization problems). So which one is it? Firstly, it's both, but the economy has to suffer first from globalization problems before unions become a problem. Notice how very little people talked and complained about unions prior to the economy falling into a recession. That's because in boomtime, the economy could support union demands.

In short, the spark that starts the chain reaction is globalization of the economy, not unions. You think, had Japan or another country never developed a cheaper and more efficient automobile manufacturing market, that people will be complaining about unions in Detroit with the Big 3 capturing all the market? Didn't think so.
 
Re: Hotter than Tabasco sauce: the Boston RE market

TheRifleman said:
^^^
Agree.........So if you took away MIT & Harvard which both schools are located in Cambridge---and both have unlimited money.

The future of Boston would be a better version of Detroit on the ocean.

Thank God we have Harvard & MIT near Boston. That is the reason for Boston's success.
Boston location brings out the best of everything. MIT & HARVARD bring the Top Notch Corporate Players of the world into this city and that is why we have exploded.

But I really believe without Harvard & MIT: Boston would look like Detroit.
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Doubt it. You have to remember Boston is the closest major US city to Europe and thus is one of the principal port along the East Coast. It benefits greatly for being a hub for shipping. In addition, Boston would still see significant tourism due to its historical significance and the fact that they have leading colleges and universities in the surrounding area means that, while it may not be a big tech hub like it is now, it doesn't mean that everything will disappear either. Furthermore, unless the surrounding cities in New England were to overtake Boston (unlikely), Boston would remain the cultural center for Eastern New England.
 
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