Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street | Downtown

Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

SHUT. UP.

Edit: Directed at you know who, who smart enough to remove his comment.
 
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

If they didn't need to keep the garage, they wouldn't.

But the garage remains. The BRA liked garages and this garage is possibly an artifact from those days, when eminent domain cleared the way for the Central Artery.

If they could bury the garage, they would. But Rifleman's (and his ghost) favorite developer estimated the cost of burying that garage, a decade ago, at $165M, IIRC

If one buried the garage, one couldn't afford to build residential on top, economically, given the price paid for the existing garage. The favorite developer said he needed a minimum of 1.2 million gsf to bury, than build.

The architects are either half-hearted or told to go cheap with the Greenway screening for Dock Square.

See:
https://www.azahner.com/creations/wall-systems

arch_precast-7.jpg


Photoengraved pre-cast concrete panels.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

Precisely. You'd have to give the developer ~$150M.

Charlie_mta said:
Both versions suck because they keep the garage.
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stick n move said:
When everyone hated that and they hate this whats the difference?
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i don't follow. The original, and 2nd designs were much better. Just the latest example where the process has not risen to meet the challenges to produce the correct outcome for the Greater Good, & the lunatics & special interests getting their way. 1 Bromfield (just fix the podium and build), Columbus Center, Copley Tower, Fenway Center Tower, 45 Worthington, 2 Charlesgate W, 1000 Boylston, Tremont Crossing, Dudley Square, TD Garden, GCG (Office lost 150' of height and got fat), Harbor Garage.... None got done (or done well)–when getting them right would have made such a difference w/ no harm done (whatsoever). Other cities are getting with the program. But, Boston is still (really) stuck in the old ways.
 
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Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

Odu has never seen a post he cant throw a list in lol.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

type001 said:
SHUT. UP.

Edit: Directed at you know who, who smart enough to remove his comment.
Click to expand...

Umm, this is an architectural discussion site. "Shut up" is not what it's set for.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

stellarfun said:
If they didn't need to keep the garage, they wouldn't.

But the garage remains. The BRA liked garages and this garage is possibly an artifact from those days, when eminent domain cleared the way for the Central Artery.
Click to expand...

Completely eliminate the garage, don't bury it, Yes, have enough parking for residents of the new building, but that's it. Boston has the highest traffic congestion in the nation, and eliminating the garage would help address that problem.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

content


Dock Square, and as for date, it looks as if construction on the Central Artery is starting.

Where the garage is now was torn down, the land probably turned over to the BRA, who decreed, in their imperial way, that a parking garage would be built to support the re-vitalization of Quincy Market and Faneuil Hall by Rouse. The BRA might even have affixed a covenant on the title, ensuring a garage forever more.

Take away the garage, and the present owners / tenants of Quincy Market can cry foul.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

stellarfun said:
Dock Square, and as for date, it looks as if construction on the Central Artery is starting.

Where the garage is now was torn down, the land probably turned over to the BRA, who decreed, in their imperial way, that a parking garage would be built to support the re-vitalization of Quincy Market and Faneuil Hall by Rouse. The BRA might even have affixed a covenant on the title, ensuring a garage forever more.

Take away the garage, and the present owners / tenants of Quincy Market can cry foul.
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Actually, the elevated Central Artery was built in the early 1950's, but on this site the original buildings stayed up for awhile. Then they were torn down in the late 50's/early 60's, and replaced with a parking lot that was in place for a long time, then the garage in the 1970's.

This timeline can be verified on the historic aerial maps at https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer#
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

F-Line to Dudley said:
You know who else had to constantly remind aB of a singular obsession about parking garages and the need to "incentivize" developers with giant blank cheques to bury them?

Just sayin'. . .
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Who are you talking about? :-?








If the city can offer tax deals to certain corporations or developers around the city why can't it offer tax deals to these types of developments that are stuck into keeping the garage intact for the development?

Why would our city keep the area so suppressed for the foot traffic and public?

I think it would be an easier timeline and profitable for a builder just to build on top of the project and move on to the next project.

What is the role of the BRA to create and and mold an amazing city for the public.
Keeping an above garage on a location next to a park completely defeats the purpose of the BRA and city planners.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

Because the City doesn't have $150M to sink into improving claddings & aesthetics of the Public Realm in general. That money is desperately needed elsewhere. Pensions. The T. Schools. Raises. Affordable housing. More Raises.

If it were easy to throw that kind money around, the Pike would be decked already and Copley Tower would be up. In the case of Simon--it's probably the City's/State's best interest to work with Simon to solve the $$$ problem..... In fact, a stimulus to deck all the Pike sites for ~400' towers should happen. Even selling the completed lots for a loss is probably worth doing. The money comes back in income and property taxes.

Not sure about the lot size at Dock Square, but comparing 1.2M sq ft with 60 State, it probably equates to >500' of offices and residential--rough estimate.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

odurandina said:
Because the City doesn't have $150M to sink into improving claddings & aesthetics of the Public Realm in general. That money is desperately needed elsewhere. Pensions. The T. Schools. Raises. Affordable housing. More Raises.

If it were easy to throw that kind money around, the Pike would be decked already and Copley Tower would be up. In the case of Simon--it's probably the City's/State's best interest to work with Simon to solve the $$$ problem..... In fact, a stimulus to deck all the Pike sites for ~400' towers should happen. Even selling the completed lots for a loss is probably worth doing. The money comes back in income and property taxes.

Not sure about the lot size at Dock Square, but comparing 1.2M sq ft with 60 State, it probably equates to >500' of offices and residential--rough estimate.
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How is the city in desperate need of money if we are living in such amazing prosperous economic times. This has been one of the biggest building booms in a long-time. Condos, Housing is selling at record levels. Property taxes are soaring.

What are you talking about the city is in desperate need of money?

Why would they be giving out tax breaks in the first place then?
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

Why do I feel this thread is going to veer off into a massive pile of bull droppings?
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

TheMagicMan said:
How is the city in desperate need of money if we are living in such amazing prosperous economic times. This has been one of the biggest building booms in a long-time. Condos, Housing is selling at record levels. Property taxes are soaring.

What are you talking about the city is in desperate need of money?

Why would they be giving out tax breaks in the first place then?
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This is a great question. We can do a long dissertation to explain the answer.

Except, that--in fact, so many of those issues are discussed all over this site.

Do a little research elsewhere on the World Wide Web using Google.

You'll find those many other pieces that form the complex answer/s apart from the aB site!
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

TheMagicMan said:
How is the city in desperate need of money if we are living in such amazing prosperous economic times. This has been one of the biggest building booms in a long-time. Condos, Housing is selling at record levels. Property taxes are soaring.

What are you talking about the city is in desperate need of money?

Why would they be giving out tax breaks in the first place then?
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I bring this up a lot... forget Boston how is the country broke when the economy is absolutely booming? Crazy isnt it. If every city/state is broke now imagine when the economy slows down... The national debt is growing massively at a time of massive prosperity. Thats a bad sign...

Anyways on this site it sounds like we better pick whichever project is the least bad and be happy, the garage is staying. With this new design, I can live with it.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

How can the city planners think this is good idea? Keeping the garage in front of the Greenway that was created from the massive big dig expense. The entire big dig was to put the traffic underground to create a incredible city experience.

An above parking garage is not acceptable after the public has spent billions to create amazing city park platform only to suppress the developments around it.


Why would the BRA or the city planners allow this?
#1 offer sometype of tax credit
#2 loosen the height requirements
#3 Work with the developer until the #'s make sense.
If tax credits should be issued they should be issued for these types of developments that have an overall benefit for the public.


Where are all the generous tax incentives now? Are there only a selected few that can received these benefits?

The city being broke is lunacy. If they can't manage the city budget & services now what will happen incase of a downturn.

We are in the longest bull market in history. :shock:
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

TheMagicMan said:
How can the city planners think this is good idea? Keeping the garage in front of the Greenway that was created from the massive big dig expense. The entire big dig was to put the traffic underground to create a incredible city experience.

An above parking garage is not acceptable after the public has spent billions to create amazing city park platform only to suppress the developments around it.


Why would the BRA or the city planners allow this?
#1 offer sometype of tax credit
#2 loosen the height requirements
#3 Work with the developer until the #'s make sense.
If tax credits should be issued they should be issued for these types of developments that have an overall benefit for the public.


Where are all the generous tax incentives now? Are there only a selected few that can received these benefits?

The city being broke is lunacy. If they can't manage the city budget & services now what will happen incase of a downturn.

We are in the longest bull market in history. :shock:
Click to expand...

You realize that development runs the city. They will approve anything that gets filed unless the neighborhood puts up a huge stink.
 
Re: Dock Square Parking Garage | 20 Clinton Street |

Rifleman is going to keep derailing threads with his tax $ diatribe.
 
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