Downtown Crossing/Financial District | Discussion

A really good jazz club similar to Beehive or Wally's Cafe would be PERFECT in this location. Combined with some private booths and the existing billiards, the film noir atmosphere could be amazing.
 
Another good location would be the old RMV store on Winter St. Last I was up that way it was for lease.
 
Completely agree. When are we going to see a place downtown for adults to grab an adult beverage, take a load off their feet, perhaps have a bite to eat and listen to some quality live music (Jazz, Blues, rock whatever)? I know nightclubs serve their purpose, but for those of us married with kids, a nightclub is pretty much the last establishment we will frequent. We need some new establishments in this part of town that cater to folks over 30.
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Same here! The sort of thing I'm looking for I found on a trip to DC recently - there's a street in the city (is it U Street? Near 14th) where there's a bunch of places like you describe...music trailing out of the doors, and you just walk in, have a seat, have a drink and enjoy some great jazz. It's a social thing that's more integrated with the street, and maybe that's because of the southern culture leanings of DC. I dunno, when I think of jazz clubs in Boston, I mainly think of places that you couldn't stumble upon if you were just wandering down the street (exceptions being Wally's, Lily Pad, maybe Ryles - others?) It would be great to have a street in Downtown Crossing with that sort of U street vibe, rather than more places like the soon-to-be-Sin.
 
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You wouldn't be likely to stumble across the U Street area in DC unless you were specifically going there, either.

But "Sin"...wow. This in a city founded by Puritans who would brand a scarlet letter on people who even inadvertently sinned.
 
statler said:
Another good location would be the old RMV store on Winter St. Last I was up that way it was for lease.
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I am assuming you mean HMV rather than RMV. This space is leased and is under renovation. I regret to inform you that it will become another bank.
 
czsz said:
You wouldn't be likely to stumble across the U Street area in DC unless you were specifically going there, either.
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I'll assume that's true (haven't spent all that much time in DC), but I'm talking more of having a part of town like U street, where you know you can stroll down the street and find a decent number of jazz clubs within a few blocks or even storefronts of each other. The only part of Metro Boston I know of that has something approaching this is Inman Sq, with Ryles, Lily Pad, and Outpost 186 (which is sort of hidden, if I remember correctly).
 
CDubs said:
Same here! The sort of thing I'm looking for I found on a trip to DC recently - there's a street in the city (is it U Street? Near 14th) where there's a bunch of places like you describe...music trailing out of the doors, and you just walk in, have a seat, have a drink and enjoy some great jazz. It's a social thing that's more integrated with the street, and maybe that's because of the southern culture leanings of DC. I dunno, when I think of jazz clubs in Boston, I mainly think of places that you couldn't stumble upon if you were just wandering down the street (exceptions being Wally's, Lily Pad, maybe Ryles - others?) It would be great to have a street in Downtown Crossing with that sort of U street vibe, rather than more places like the soon-to-be-Sin.
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I don't even need a whole street of these places. How about just one to start? There is nothing even close to downtown crossing like I described and very few places at all in Boston proper. Wally's come sort of close but I think it downtown crossing it would have to be a bit nicer than Wally's to attract the after work crowds that would be needed to support such an establishment.

and don't even get me started on the old HMV space on Winter St. What a disaster. mattresses and now a bank?
 
I realize this is kind of orthogonal to the point you guys are making, but Boston's jazz scene blows away DC's (it's not even a comparison), entirely thanks to the "places you couldn't stumble upon" like Berklee, NEC, Harvard. Of course, when it comes to Boston's "elite" clubs - Regattabar and Scullers - I couldn't agree more that the locations are very unfortunate.
 
Sounds like Boston jazz has the same problem as all Boston culture - it's too institutionalized. There's just something about going to a jazz club that can't be replicated at Harvard.
 
That's 100% true, but it's not as if other cities are doing better. There's only one city in the country that successfully combines jazz club culture/environment with high quality and cutting-edge artistic output. You can probably guess it's NYC.

Jazz just doesn't have the popularity to thrive without either institutional support (Boston) or the mecca-like status of NYC. Fortunately for places like Boston, the institutionalization does to some extent breathe life (in the form of Berklee students) into places like Wally's that would otherwise have to shut down or "branch out" further and further away from quality jazz.
 
I would say jazz thrives pretty well in other places. New Orleans is one example. Plenty of smaller cities - at least Memphis and Louisville come to mind - have blues club cultures as well.

I'm not saying I'd like to see the institutions done away with, merely complemented by a more independent arts scene. Even other expensive cities in the US, like San Francisco, don't rely on universities to support local artists the way Boston does. Why?
 
....because the other cities don't have them.....at least not as many.
 
But they also have equally or more thriving arts scenes. So why does Boston need them as a crutch. Try to imagine what the scene would be like without the universities if it helps...
 
Or what the scene would be like if all those Berklee kids had clubs to play at?
 
Some Union workers claimed that FILENES project might be a go soon. They did not have details just rumors.

ANybody on this board hear of anything?
 
I think it's more complicated because jazz is, or has become, a "fine art" whose basic vocabulary requires years of formal training to learn, much less master. Boston happens to be the home of several of the finest jazz education programs in the world. This means it attracts countless promising musicians for at least the span of a few years. Beyond that, of course, is another question. So it seems problem in this case is just another instance of Boston's larger problem of retaining students after graduation. Look at this very telling article, in which a San Francisco newspaper writer on the NYC arts beat illustrates Boston's role in sustaining NYC's jazz scene. The snide but honest conclusion of the article: "Whether the institution is in the heart of Manhattan or all the way up in Massachusetts, all roads lead to our fair city."

Also, since you mentioned San Francisco, I thought I'd mention a few interesting developments in that city. (1) Sometime last year or the year before, the legendary Jazz at Pearl's club in North Beach closed its doors. Pearl's was located right along one of the City's busiest streets (for nightlife and tourism), and provided just the kind of atmosphere people in this thread want to replicate. Yet it wasn't able to survive. (2) Yoshi's Jazz club in Oakland - a world class institution in a second-best location (like the Regattabar) - tried to replicate its success with a second club in San Francisco. Within a year or two, they were forced to radically expand their show offerings because jazz wasn't selling tickets. The Oakland club still seems to be doing fine. (3) Thanks to private philanthropy, SF is getting this thing, the SFJazz Center:

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Similar to NYC's Jazz at Lincoln Center, it will be a space/concert hall dedicated purely to jazz and new home of the organizers of SF's jazz festival. While not affiliated with any college or university, it's still another example of the increased importance of institutional support in helping jazz thrive.
 
Exactly: we have some of the greatest talent in the nation (the world?). How can the public take advantage of that? By injecting it into everyday lives. I'd posit that the reason jazz has become such an 'elitist art' is precisely because it's institutionalized. I bet students would love the opportunity to play in swanky (or not so swanky) jazz bars in the city. Give them a chance to relax and maybe even improvise (shocker! just what jazz is!). Just don't call the bar a "Jazz Bar."

Where's KZ, he should be able to weigh in on the student performer aspect.
 
The key to successful jazz places is thinking small. I've been to jazz clubs in New York that could barely cram in 30 seats. They survived by lack of overhead.
 
why does it have to be jazz only? Can't we have a venue downtown somewhere that seats 200-400 or so for live music of all kinds with decent drinks and light food? Does such a place exist in Boston proper?
 
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