Echelon Seaport | 133-135 Seaport Blvd | Seaport

jl326 · Mar 21, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

So.. what about people who don't want "grungy?" Must all neighborhoods be gritty, as one called it, in order to be "real?" I have the opposite view as many others here, and that's OK. That's why we have different perspectives and we can have discussion. While you see sterile, I (and many others who live here but are not active forum members) see clean. The same way one could much prefer Central Square vs. Seaport is the exact opposite of what I prefer. I very much dislike going to Central. And that's fine. I'm not trying to change it or propose/demand changes to the place. I'm sure it the area has its fans, much like Seaport has its fans.

Why can't we have different areas of Boston that cater to different tastes? It's not a unique phenomenon in other cities.

stick n move · Mar 21, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

^ Exactly. If you want tiny little shops and very tight streets and italian food.....go to the north end. If you want a clean brand new neighborhood with lots of ground floor retail and roof decks go to the seaport. If you want skyscrapers go downtown. If you want hills and gas lamps go to beacon hill. Its good to have diversity and we have it. Its a good thing to have. If you want triple deckers and asian food go to north dorchester.......

Not everything has to have grimy, or windy streets, or corner stores. We have them though if you want them. AGAIN, all those neighborhoods are still there, so if you want what they offer go there. If you want what the seaport offers go there. I think its good to have a new neighborhood that isnt like any other that we have. That gives more options to people. And like I said nothing was demolished to make this neighborhood, anybody can still choose to go to whatever neighborhood they please. We should be celebrating that we have a different type of neighborhood that caters to different needs than any other in the city. Not bashing it for not being more like the other neighborhoods that we already have.

People seem to love assembly and thats a sterile kind of chain restaurant type of place too. If you like that your free to go there. Diversity of neighborhoods is good and we should celebrate it.

SeamusMcFly · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

shmessy said:
Well, the Hancock is 45 years old.

The only difference I can tell is that the panes of glass aren't falling on pedestrians anymore.

That and it doesn't interact with the street at all. It's a big, tall, glass slab. It's an icon and I love it, but if repeated 20 times adjacent in the same neighborhood, it would be awful. It's also a cause of major wind issues.

The seaport is glass with glass podiums with lots of retail. It will be a much different test than the aging Hancock. The again Hancock (Manulife) is also all glass but will be a shorter version of 200 Clarendon, because it also does nothing at the street (you know, where neighborhoods exist.). The 46 year old glass slab has many beautiful neighbors that make the neighborhood. The seaport doesn't. It will have to stand and age on it's own.

My hopes aren't high, but it's an experiment in action I guess. To see if all glass ages at all.
Will new retail tenants coming and going vary the podiums enough to lead to an interesting street level? Will the new materials being introduced at the M parcels mix it up enough (probably not with all the glass due at the L parcels.)

Glass curtainwall should be easier to change over time than precast, but I ain't counting on that in the next 50 years. The only hope is treatment at the podium levels to provide variety in the area. But, that's most of what you see when walking on the sidewalk. Which is the real test after all.

stick n move · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

SeamusMcFly said:
Will the new materials being introduced at the M parcels mix it up enough (probably not with all the glass due at the L parcels.)

https://flic.kr/p/S9no4R https://www.flickr.com/photos/139261813@N06/

idk I'd say that "mixes it up".

stick n move · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

The condo tower at pier 4 is not "all glass".

Street level activity between where there is 2 blue glass towers:

Unique and quality architecture where blue glass is used at 150 seaport

Less glass

Seaport Blvd in its completed form:

These new towers at the L,N,P parcels arent blue glass, or glass only at all.

These are unique and interesting shapes if you ask me:

Not the most amazing tower of all time but its a weird parcel "the sausage parcel" and this isnt blue glass either.

Waterside Place 1B isnt blue glass and looks wayyyy better than 1A

Omni

coleslaw · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

If we had said glass and prefab boxes would that have been better?

chrisbrat · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

coleslaw said:
If we had said glass and prefab boxes would that have been better?

i think stick still makes (part of) a good, overall, point.

he's right that the area is absolutely *not* all uniform blue glass boxes. beyond that, the disappointment that some are expressing seems based in fantasy. you can't expect an area that is springing up from where there was literally nothing (parking lots) in the 2000s to magically sprout the occasional block of 19th century brownstones or churches. that'd be a neat trick, to be sure, but -- yes, there is bound to be a degree of homogeny in a "neighborhood" where 90% if the construction in said 'hood is done within 5 years of one another. "this place all looks like it was designed in the 2000s/2010s -- boo!" well, no shit. it was!

kz1000ps · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

stick n move said:
The condo tower at pier 4 is not "all glass"

And yet it still gives off a similar cold and sterile vibe. Same difference.

SeamusMcFly said:
It will be interesting to see if glass can somehow age and become cool. We know brick, brownstone, and other masonry materials can. Or is glass destined to always be sterile?

My question is will they even have a chance to get to the aged-in cool phase before the materials look dirty with water stains and such. I'm already seeing a number of buildings from the 2007 boom developing nasty and impossible-to-miss grime, and so once these buildings lose their new/hip vibe, what exactly are we left with?

And that brings up my next point: isn't the lifespan on most of these newer curtainwall systems only around 30 years or so before whoever the developer flipped the building to (because of course it was flipped) has to refit the entire facade? Do you foot the cost of putting up a new facade every 20 years to maintain your hip image with the global elite, or are these left to look like shit (because none of these glass and aluminum boxes look good with stains), go down-market somewhat, lose the global elite market, yet be allowed to develop some organic coolness?

This is an extreme example because of the slope, but the big pyramid/tetrahedron on NYC's west side already has crazy obvious water stainage and these panels have been in place for just two years. This streetview is from October 2017 and believe me when I say the pic doesn't do justice to how bad it already looks in person.

So again I ask: given the crap materials, what does the Seaport look like 15+ years from now?

shmessy · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

Czervik.Construction said:
Funny, as I now consider myself an out-of-towner, I really like what is going on over in the seaport. Yes, the buildings are cheap looking and seem to have been designed in an afternoon and then VE'd to death.

However, where there were once a sea of parking lots, now is a neighborhood where people live, work and eat. I am amazed at how far it has come.

I was here recently for a work conference and everybody went to the seaport every night, not the back bay or north end. My point here is that no one here thinks of it as somewhere to go hang out because it was not there when we grew up and the idea of an all new neighborhood is somewhat foreign. It was not part of our routine except for the occasional concert or a family trip to Anthony's Pier 4.

There are people coming from other parts of the US, other parts of the world and from Boston, too, that want to live in a new building with a doorman, amenities, a restaurant or bar in the building, a concierge, etc. - and then be able to walk to work in one of those new offices. A full service building is also a new concept to Boston.

I live in a 700 foot tall, dull glass box in NYC near Hudson Yards. Many will have a lot of negative to say about the sea of dull glass boxes. But for me, the amenities and the roof deck and the interior finishes are amazing in my building. The residential team is always putting on parties and events for us. I don't really care about the outside and I am very close to my office.

A bit of a rant, but just try to look at from a different viewpoint.

Not really that different - - I fully agree, as I wrote in post #328 yesterday "The Seaport is fulfilling its job. I'm neither endorsing nor complaining. It is what it is. It used to be a sea of parking lots that was needed for the city. Now it's a sea of glass boxes that will bring a lot of revenue to the city."

It is what it is, and it does the job it was given (or it will, once Mahty does something about transit).

This area is not "cool" and I doubt we will see any painter setting up an easel on any street corner there, but the strength of Boston is that it has so many different variations of areas where someone can either find a Del Friscos or a New Saigon Sandwiches or a Steinart Hall.

shmessy · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

stick n move said:
Omni

I knew it!!!! Amazon is picking Boston!!!!! Bezos is picking up chicks in that render!!!!!!!

theSil · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

kz1000ps said:
This is an extreme example because of the slope, but the big pyramid/tetrahedron on NYC's west side already has crazy obvious water stainage and these panels have been in place for just two years. This streetview is from October 2017 and believe me when I say the pic doesn't do justice to how bad it already looks in person.

Wow, I'm glad to hear someone hates this celebrated building as much as I do. I feel the best incarnation of BIG's work is often the renderings.

Rover · Mar 22, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

shmessy said:
I knew it!!!! Amazon is picking Boston!!!!! Bezos is picking up chicks in that render!!!!!!!

Okay, that's pretty freakin' funny! Well done.

BeeLine · Mar 27, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

https://flic.kr/p/FSFKND

https://flic.kr/p/24sa33E

stick n move · Apr 2, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

Similar render to one that they had released before, but now it is lit up very well:

cadetcarl · Apr 2, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

I love this shot; if we could have gotten more of this and less of the plateau I'd be that much less critical of the seaport.

stick n move · Apr 2, 2018

Re: Seaport Parcels M1-M2 | Seaport Sq. | Seaport

That was their intention, they specifically tried to break up the plateau with this design and I think it was a good move on their part and for the area as a whole. Hopefully it inspires more to do the same.