Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Looks good. Last time I went through that intersection, I practically knocked out a filling. MassDOT is slowly but surely upgrading and eliminating crossings on this line. There is still active freight on the "southern triangle" of Taunton, Fall River, and New Bedford and projects like these benefit freight rail and roadways.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Jesus Christ...this is generic freight work for Mass Coastal RR. They've been replacing crossings all around Taunton, FR, NB for the last 2 years. Including on the branches and industrial stubs that have jack squat to do with the magic South Coast FAIL rainbow-and-ice cream sharting unicorn. It's that region's turn; before that MassDOT was upgrading a bunch of crossings in Central and Western MA. Can these guys ever just call it what it truly is? It's freight SGR...nothing more, nothing less. Freight freight freight freight freight. Freight needs non- ass-condition grade crossing surfaces too. Business is up on the Dean St. industrial track. Derailing on Route 44 because the potholes have loosened up the crossing rails to spaghetti is a bad thing. It's a state-owned line crossing a state highway. Ergo, the state's going to do the work. What a concept!


Those bridges in downtown New Bedford that got TIGER grant-funded for replacement were freight projects. They were weight-restricted, falling-apart pieces of scrap metal inhibiting any freight unloading worth its salt in that big freight yard downtown, preventing Massport from doing anything with the port, and necessary to replace for all the road work they've been doing the last several years around Route 18. Terribly boring, mundane freight project the state had to do as an I.O.U. for that humongous CSX line purchase so Mass Coastal had ability to send more freight business to the CSX interchange and make it worth CSX's balance sheet to outsource those lines. TIGER grants are easy to score for freight; there's an obvious revenue payback. They've whiffed at all attempts for SCR grants because the feds no longer think it fits the "regional rail" mold and think--like the rest of the logical world--that it's just a hugely flawed and ludicrously mismanaged state project.

Didn't stop Governor Patrick from staging a golden-shovel ceremony at the first bridge to be touched and exclaim "SOUTH COAST RAIL IS UNDERWAY!!!", with the Standard-Times spending the next 3 years parroting that nonsense every time a traffic cone sprouted up under the bridges. Must keep the fantasy going. Must keep believing at all cost. Pay no attention to your eyes; the color of the sky over the South Coast is pink polka-dots.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^Well, F-Line, since the state govt is corrupt and worthless, this project is pretty likely to go through eventually. Nevermind that there's twenty other projects that in person-dollar-hours-saved projections would have a much much much bigger impact. Ugh.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^Well, F-Line, since the state govt is corrupt and worthless, this project is pretty likely to go through eventually. Nevermind that there's twenty other projects that in person-dollar-hours-saved projections would have a much much much bigger impact. Ugh.

Don't get me wrong, as freight projects what they're doing now is fine. It was all wrapped up in that megabucks public-private CSX deal. CSX wanted to focus on its intermodal freight profit center; it wasn't interested in running so many lower margin door-to-door locals all over Eastern MA. So CSX got its relocation to state-of-the-art Worcester and clearances to double-stack shipping cubes in the deal. The state got its real estate windfall. And then CSX cut deals with 2 private shortlines--Mass Coastal down here and Grafton & Upton RR in Norfolk County--to take over some of the smaller branchlines that didn't fit the corporate strategy. They did it because the shortlines would put more elbow grease into developing door-to-door business, increase carloads at their interchanges with CSX, and CSX would make higher profit margins than if they kept it to themselves. The state helped play matchmaker to sweeten its haul, and took on some I.O.U.'s to make SGR upgrades on these branches so the shortlines could make good on their promise to develop more business. Massport was bouncing around in there too with its long-range proposals to upgrade the minor ports at FR and NB, which supported these parties' goals to develop more business. Last year the state followed-up and bought the Framingham Secondary from CSX, the route they take from Worcester and Framingham to interchange with Mass Coastal in Middleboro every night. Piles of new rail and ties got dropped all along it over winter so they could start upgrading it this spring.

All of this is an inseparable part of that big wad of public-private deals and the ensuing I.O.U.'s the state took on so it could get its haul. Everybody will make money, and not a single commuter train has to run on any of these tracks--South Coast or Foxboro--for the investment to eventually pay itself off. Though clearly buying up a lot of prospective commuter rail territory was a motivation.



They would actually look somewhat smart to a skeptical electorate who doesn't think they're very smart if they'd just ^tell it like it is^. "Yeah, we spent money to make money. Look at how much money Worcester's making! Look at all this cool stuff like Beacon Park we got that's going to make us money. We're stimulating the local industrial and shipping economy right now on the South Coast. Stimulate the economy, and someday you're eventually going to need better transit; we got that covered too by owning all these lines. Goddamn, we are such magnificent bastards when it comes to stimulating the economy for you taxpayers! Re-elect me!"

You'd think they would have *slight* motivation to play that up as a general-purpose confidence builder. To build a case that their commitment to developing the region is a little broader than promising everyone a magic pony? To build any sort of case that they can be trusted with large sums of money without suspicion? To make some sort of confidence-building suggestion that they're doing something productive while this dumpster fire of a transit project goes for retooling?

Nope. "FREE PONIES FOR EVERYONE TODAY! [applause]" Even when they're half-right, they can't help but double-down on being twice as wrong.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

FLine -- only gonna nit one pick -- Massport has nothing to do with Fall River or New Bedford Harbor, or Gloucester or Newburyport, or Plymouth or Wood Hole harbors for that matter

Massport's only maritime responsibilities are associated with the Port of Boston including the Conley Container Terminal and the Black Falcon Cruise Port and ancillary properties located on or near to Boston Harbor
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Ten lanes. Ten...lanes...on the Expressway. Because of a public transit project. That will wreck every frequency on every existing Old Colony branch. Thus requiring the entire South Shore to once again drive the Expressway every morning like they did prior to 1997.

On ten lanes. Count 'em: ten of them.


Bonus: This will probably all cost more than the $3 billion price tag they're trying to "save" money from.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

The long history of putting transit underground in order to create more room for cars continues.

And this will be called a 'billion dollar commuter rail tunnel' rather than a 'billion dollar HOV lane'....
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I'm taking solace in the fact that the costs will be so comical it'll be blocked on "no Big Dig 2" grounds. If this actually happens I have no idea what the fuck transpo planners are doing- is the car culture so deeply ingrained there that this looks remotely reasonable to anyone?
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

The long history of putting transit underground in order to create more room for cars continues.

And this will be called a 'billion dollar commuter rail tunnel' rather than a 'billion dollar HOV lane'....

Indeed. Because it is fucking expensive to bury a diesel commuter rail line underground for a half-mile, ventilate it, build longer inclines to get down, and build clearances for any future tall freights under electrification in the 100 years the tunnel is supposed to last. Burying Braintree-under-Ashmont is easy...all-electric, no ventilation, shorter trains that won't change size for much less tunnel height and snugger fit, lightweight trains so roof can easily support upper level, combined cable plant. The RR tunnel is easily going to cost twice as much as the HRT tunnel. And everything that has to get all blowed up for the highway widening between fuckin' Braintree and South Bay will cost 3-5x as much as that.


Honestly...if they JUST buried Braintree-under-Ashmont and compacted Columbia Jct. they'd get 2 tracks of surface commuter rail and enough pavement room to extend the zipper lane up to the Airport HOV's with little more than a rebuild of the ancient Columbia Rd. overpass and a couple street bridges upstream. Instead they've proposed something with THREE MORE LANES OF ASPHALT than the last architectural firm renders for the OC double-track + HOV extension that also attempted a (somewhat shorter) boondoggle burial of the CR tracks.


FWIW...I don't think MassDOT is taking this proposal seriously. This is all the South Coast Task Force and a bunch of crayon-in-brain SC legislators. Pollack's already said during the '17-21 TIP review comment responses earlier this summer that the days of mass add-a-lane'ing are over. This is a $0 PowerPoint for the idle amusement of the New Bedford Standard-Times until it gets thrown in the trash.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Total bullshit vaporware. They claim to received an "unsolicited" proposal for a "public private partnership" by an unnamed party that wants to build pay lanes in the Southeast Expressway. The toll to enter two "managed lanes" would theoretically be used to pay for the transit project. Pardon my "air quotes".

Meanwhile, the Middleboro route totally screws the entire Old Colony lines, necessitates the replacement of the Middleboro lot, and ends any potential for Buzzards Bay expansion.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Total bullshit vaporware. They claim to received an "unsolicited" proposal for a "public private partnership" by an unnamed party that wants to build pay lanes in the Southeast Expressway. The toll to enter two "managed lanes" would theoretically be used to pay for the transit project. Pardon my "air quotes".

Meanwhile, the Middleboro route totally screws the entire Old Colony lines, necessitates the replacement of the Middleboro lot, and ends any potential for Buzzards Bay expansion.

Which...is exactly what the South Coast Rail FEIR concluded about the M'Boro Alternative when it slapped it with a big phat "Not Recommended" rating and called the Stoughton Route the only possible path.


Right...total bullshit vaporware from an unsolicited proposal a couple desperate South Coast legislators pulled out of their asses when they requested a private meeting with Pollack a few months ago. Pollack is giving them their bread-and-circuses in front of the Board to keep a couple of dim bulbs from trying to ratfuck MassDOT in the Legislature by...I don't know...holding GLX hostage? Holding the toll collection switch hostage? Take your pick.

They got their public airing and pretty PowerPoints, which is all they were promised. And now this will be swept under the rug and business will go on pretending this little interlude never existed. It's how you play politics with children with the attention span of half-a-gnat.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Ten lanes. Ten...lanes...on the Expressway. Because of a public transit project. That will wreck every frequency on every existing Old Colony branch. Thus requiring the entire South Shore to once again drive the Expressway every morning like they did prior to 1997.

On ten lanes. Count 'em: ten of them.


Bonus: This will probably all cost more than the $3 billion price tag they're trying to "save" money from.

Only focusing on the 10 lane piece - what's the issue? The Southeast Expressway is already a very poorly designed and laid out highway. That cross section shows 4 full travel lanes in each direction plus a breakdown lane - something that should exist the entire stretch of the SE Expressway as things stand today.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Screw that cancer, congestion, urban sprawl and asthma causing nonsense. No new road capacity into Boston, period.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Only focusing on the 10 lane piece - what's the issue? The Southeast Expressway is already a very poorly designed and laid out highway. That cross section shows 4 full travel lanes in each direction plus a breakdown lane - something that should exist the entire stretch of the SE Expressway as things stand today.

10 lanes is too much in regard to this proposal with the SCR, but I have long supported efforts to bring the Expressway at least up to compliance with standards by means of adding breakdown lanes (not travel lanes). You are correct that breakdown lanes should exist for the entire stretch from Braintree to Boston. That's a core safety & efficiency upgrade which will actually relieve traffic from a broad perspective of time spent because people will have the opportunity to breakdown in the breakdown lane and not literally in the middle of the road like what happens now. Ambulances could also use it to get patients to the hospital faster. It's terrifying watching an ambulance weave its way thru a traffic jam on the Xway because all that time spent is someone's life inside the ambulance ticking away.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

10 lanes is too much in regard to this proposal with the SCR, but I have long supported efforts to bring the Expressway at least up to compliance with standards by means of adding breakdown lanes (not travel lanes). You are correct that breakdown lanes should exist for the entire stretch from Braintree to Boston. That's a core safety & efficiency upgrade which will actually relieve traffic from a broad perspective of time spent because people will have the opportunity to breakdown in the breakdown lane and not literally in the middle of the road like what happens now. Ambulances could also use it to get patients to the hospital faster. It's terrifying watching an ambulance weave its way thru a traffic jam on the Xway because all that time spent is someone's life inside the ambulance ticking away.

I would agree - at the very least the entire stretch of the SE Expressway should have a full breakdown lane present.

If we were ever to get 2 dedicated HOV lanes the entire stretch of the SE Expressway, it would be pretty great if they could cut and cover a tunnel underneath that would allow for express trains to run from Braintree into South Station. Instead of veering right into Quincy Adams you have tracks go left along that short stretch of Route 3 and then enter the tunnel.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I would agree - at the very least the entire stretch of the SE Expressway should have a full breakdown lane present.

If we were ever to get 2 dedicated HOV lanes the entire stretch of the SE Expressway, it would be pretty great if they could cut and cover a tunnel underneath that would allow for express trains to run from Braintree into South Station. Instead of veering right into Quincy Adams you have tracks go left along that short stretch of Route 3 and then enter the tunnel.

No, that would be a terrible idea for exactly the reasons outlined above. It is hideously expensive to build a ventilated RR tunnel with 20+ feet of vertical clearance. It's twice the concrete of a much more compact subway tunnel. There is no upside in HOV's anywhere close to large enough to float the magnitude of that cost.

Bury Red under Red, double-track the CR on the surface, and there is one totally freed track berth to widen the road for full interstate-regulation shoulders or go without shoulders and extend the Zipper lane. While ratcheting up commuter rail frequencies to all 3 lines to maybe...just maybe...take a few cars off the Expressway. There is no killshot that lets you have eleventeen tracks and twelvety-eight lanes on the same footprint through Savin Hill.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I say put the h o v lanes and maybe even a dedicated exit lane or two up the middle of a rebuilt flood proof morrissey Blvd on the other side of Savin hill ... And keep the dirt in the ground where it belongs
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Oh yeah and serve Fall River from providence for crying out loud
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I say put the h o v lanes and maybe even a dedicated exit lane or two up the middle of a rebuilt flood proof morrissey Blvd on the other side of Savin hill ... And keep the dirt in the ground where it belongs

You do need to move some dirt in the form of Red-under-Red in order to double-track commuter rail. Which still gives you a net-gain of either real shoulders or a chance to extend the Zippah north while in the process taking South Shore commuters off the Expressway. But each concept for doing just that has instead pulled out the 20 ft. tall ventilated RR tunnel project-killer to binge-eat on twice as much asphalt on the T's dime.


Note also what this "unsolicited proposal" doesn't say.

  • Shovel's about to go into ground on Wollaston station ADA/partial-rebuild, but all the renders for that project leave just the single CR track stet. Is anyone pitching this concept saying "Hold the phone!" and suggesting a project change that shifts the Red tracks + platform 12 ft. on a slight overhang of the parking side to carve out room? Of course not...that would be a net-gain of a whole 1-1/4 miles of double-track. And, hell, tacking on that 1-1/4 miles to the work around Savin Hill and Columbia Jct. may be the literal difference in having some kind of non-destructive South Coast schedule vs. none whatsoever. But fuck that because LANE CAPACITY!

  • Is anyone suggesting that while Quincy Ctr. contemplates its navel on the future of that condemned garage that they might want to rip the roof off that station and excavate a trench to turn the CR platform into an island before sewing back up and putting their air rights manifest destiny on top? Of course not...that would only add another contiguous half-mile of DT from Wollaston if they solve the minor Bridge St. pinch point, and would isolate the only totally unsolvable single-track pinch to the 1.5 miles through Quincy Adams. But fuck that because LANE CAPACITY!
 

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