Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Ron: I live within a mile of both downtown Boston commuter rail hubs with limited access to an automobile. I am a frequent user of commuter rail for trips out of Boston--in the past year I have traveled to Hanson, Whitman, Norfolk, Beverly, Salem, Lynn, Newburyport, Melrose, North Billerica, and probably others. But those are still Boston-oriented commuter rail trips, in that one end of the trip includes the very dense, transit oriented market that is Boston. The trips described in the article do not include Boston.

A couple questions:

What percentage of commuter rail passengers on this proposed line (or any line for that matter) are making trips that are not oriented towards travel in or (to a much lesser degree) out of Boston?

Can you think of any lines (existing or proposed) where that percentage of non-Boston-oriented riders would make the difference between an investment being a poor one and being a good one?

Under your late night entertainment in New Bedford scenario, wouldn't "reasonably scheduled Dattco bus service" be just as good as "reasonably scheduled train service" at less than 1% the cost?
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I've commuted on the Middleboro/Lakeville line plenty of times (I grew up in Assonet). In my observations i would say 90+% of the riders who boarded in Lakeville rode the train all the way to South Station with a FEW (keep in mind, very few) getting off at the following stops: Bridgewater, Brockton, Quincy Center, JFK/UMass. That's it.

I grew up 5 minutes from that Berkely/Myricks area and it's safe to say, that will not be a destination for anyone for as long as i live. That scenario that was given is pure fantasy, no question about it.

However, I think whether or not people use the rail to head into (meaning against the grain of Boston traffic) Fall River or New Bedford depends on where the stations are located and the future development that takes place around them. As long as the stations are within walking distance of any of the attractions in these cites (and yes, there are some) then there's no reason they wouldn't use the rail to commute from the North to the South Coast.

You could essentially book one night in Martha's Vinyard, bring your bike on the train, get off in New Bedford, ride less than 1/2 mile to the ferry terminal and head over to the island, spend the night and head back. All of that without stepping foot in an Automobile.

Furthermore, a rail like this could create the opportunity for developments in many of these South Shore towns that resemble Westwood Station and if that happens, then yes, people from the Boston area and New Bedford area would use the CR to get to these "stops along the way."
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I think the only line thats not focused on brining people into Boston is the Providence line, for the obvious reason that Providence is big enough to demand its own commuters. With the extension south, the line will actually have three destinations. Providence from west, providence from east, and boston from south.

All other lines do encourage sprawl
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I know people who definitely use the Worcester and Lowell lines in the opposite directions, and someone who actively commuted from Boston to downtown Wellesley. When the stations are located in traditional New England town centers, they tend to be used effectively.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Anyone know why this project isn't listed on the MBTA website as an upcoming project?

http://mbta.com/about_the_mbta/t_projects/

*Edit*
Nevermind, if I had read thoroughly, I would have seen the link here: http://www.eot.state.ma.us/

Full PDF report on the project can be found here: http://www.eot.state.ma.us/downloads/SCR_plan040407.pdf
^The PDF has some interesting info on the future South Station expansion.

www.southcoastrail.com is supposed to be the location of all new information, but the PDF is nearly 1 year old and there's nothing at that address.
 
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Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

There is only one legitimate reason to support the spending of limited resources on a train to New Bedford and Fall River

That reason is that to stay viable the Greater Boston Area has to have affordable housing for the educated "knowledge workforce" of the future -- made by its remote location through the traditional approach of subsidizing the cost of access.

That means either building houses in open fields or forests in Plymouth or else taking advantage of existing and undervalued housing that can be renovated and upgraded in places like New Bedford and Fall River and Taunton, Fitchburg, Lowell, Leominster, Lawrence, Lynn

The rest is pure fantasy. Sure an occasional person will go to the Whaling Museum on the train -- but for every one that way -- a hundred will flow north to work.

New Bedford and Fall River will still benefit from being a bedroom as the neighborhoods and even downtown will get spruced-up with desirable local amenities and eventually a Worcester-ization may occur and some of the development might spread back the other way..

But -- first and foremost housing and high-enough speed trains to connect them to Boston / Cambridge and yes Waltham, Woburn and Burlington where the jobs are and will be.

Westy
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

whighlander said:
But -- first and foremost housing and high-enough speed trains to connect them to Boston / Cambridge and yes Waltham, Woburn and Burlington where the jobs are and will be.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Boston and Massachusetts need to get their heads out of their asses when it comes to regional planning. As it is right now each town only plans for itself; no body talks to one another. We need to look at this from a much broader perspective of how each city and town can work together. Every place has strengths and weaknesses. Thinking about how smaller cities like Waltham, Lynn, Lowell, Fall River, New Bedford, etc can help Boston and how Boston can help them is what needs to be done.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^ IMO this is one of the most difficult parts of the country for this to happen in; there is very little, if any, "regional consciousness" beyond the supra-category of "New England". There's even more of an esprit de corps in the tri-state area where there are three different legal jurisdictions! We need to desperately move beyond a region where people in towns as close as Waltham think of themselves as going "to Boston" and toward one where people as far out as Fall River think of themselves being part "of Boston" in order for shared concerns to predominate.

I'd like to say this is a generational thing that will be wiped away quickly, but judging from the townie kids I remember from high school, the mental barriers are going away no time soon.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I must have missed this part of the conversation. People on the SouthCoast Identify with Providence (20 minutes from New Bedford) more than they identify with Boston. Boston seems almost as distant as New York to many of them. It's a tall order to try and get everyone to think on a regional level, but it needs to happen soon. Outside of just Southern New England, Manchester NH, Portland ME (with faster service), and even Burlington VT need better connections and those connections will benefit everyone.

In any case, the real reason I'm here is:

heraldnews.com said:
Rail Meetings Make Final Stop in Freetown
Will Richmond

Freetown -

SouthCoast residents are looking forward to commuter rail, but they're saying they want it to deliver more than just quicker trips to to Boston.
With the list of potential rail options whittled down to 10 last week, South Coast Rail officials led by Project Manager Kristina Egan held a public hearing to get feedback on the pared-down list.
No Fall River residents spoke up at the meeting, but all three members of the Freetown Board of Selectmen voiced their support for the expansion of rail through their town.
They also offered suggestions on future station sites and how to maximize the system to ensure the town sees the most benefit.
Selectwoman Lisa Pacheco said it?s important the rail be promoted not only to serve passengers seeking to go from SouthCoast to Boston, but also from the Hub to here, especially as the Riverfront Business Park and Fall River Executive Park are developed.
She was backed by board colleague Lawrence Ashley, who suggested a station be built on the proposed Exit 8 1/2, which could then be connected to the two parks by bus.
?Let?s bring Boston and the technology and knowledge base down here where we can put our educated people to work with good jobs,? said Selectwoman Jean Fox.
No one in the audience expressed opposition to the broader rail plans, though one Attleboro resident said he did not favor a route connecting Boston to his town. He said he supported the Stoughton route.
Others voiced concerns about ensuring environmental protections, while others worried about how the plan would be funded.
The Freetown meeting was the last of three hearings held this across the region this week to gain input on the proposed alternatives.
As it stands now, the commuter rail system will connect Fall River and Boston by running through Attleboro, Stoughton or Middleborough. Options such as constructing a rail line along Route 24 were scrapped in the latest report, though the highway is being considered for commuter only lanes that would allow for enhanced bus service to Boston or an express bus to South Station.
Other options on the table are three uses of the already existing Attleboro route. That method would send passengers either to the Attleboro station, where they transfer to a new train, or create a bypass of the existing rail line.
A commuter rail through Stoughton would have to traverse the Hockomock Swamp, but would provide riders with the most direct option to Boston.
The Middleborough options would potentially cause the longest ride and already have been considered a negative option by the Army Corps of Engineers. They remains under consideration, however, at the request of the state. Rail officials also must decide whether to use existing commuter rail cars or electrified commuter rail cars.

E-mail Will Richmond at wrichmond@heraldnews.com.
Click to expand...

http://www.heraldnews.com/news/x691148159

*Edit* Jean Fox is my mother. Go easy on her. Also, the Fall River Herald is terrible.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Standard Times said:
Bond bill expands commitment to rail project

DAVID KIBBE
Standard-Times correspondent
March 26, 2008 6:00 AM

BOSTON ? The SouthCoast commuter rail project would be eligible for "no less" than $75 million in state bonding after getting a boost from the bonding committee chaired by Sen. Mark C.W. Montigny, D-New Bedford.

The money is included in a $2.9 billion, three-year bond bill that is expected to be approved by the state Legislature next week.

Gov. Deval Patrick had pledged $18.2 million for preliminary work on the $1.4 billion rail project when he first submitted the bond bill late last year.

Sen. Montigny, the Senate chairman of the Legislature's Bonding, Capital Expenditures and State Assets Committee, feared that rail work would be delayed if the $18.2 million was spent in the next year or two without additional bonding authorization.

He said the governor's commitment of $18.2 million was "enough to get us through the next few months of permitting."

"I don't want to wait and have to fight two years from now for the next phase," Sen. Montigny said. "I want that money sitting there."

His changes would direct that "no less" than $75 million be spent on the rail line for design, environmental reviews, permitting, vehicle procurement, construction of the line, construction of stations, right of way acquisition with CSX Corp., layover facilities, and economic development and land-use planning.

Ultimately, the governor decides what projects to fund and how much money to release. The state also has a $1.5 billion annual cap on new bonding.

"The good news here is we have a governor who is a partner," Sen. Montigny said.

Gov. Patrick has pledged to have trains rolling between Boston and Fall River and New Bedford by 2016, but he hasn't identified a new source of funding. He has said economic development along the rail line, which he expects to create 15,000 new jobs, will help pay for it.

Gov. Patrick has set a 2010 deadline to come up with a financing plan.

Last fall, the state began an environmental review of the rail project, beginning with a study of alternate routes to Fall River and New Bedford.

Klark Jessen, a spokesman for the Executive Office of Transportation, said the state "expresses our appreciation for the commitment of Sen. Montigny to the SouthCoast project. We look forward to working with him and the rest of the delegation as the bill moves through the House and Senate."

Mr. Jessen said the rail project was still at "stage one in the process."

"Obviously, the planning process that is critical to the governor is ongoing, and there is funding to support that piece of it for certainly the next year or so and that will proceed," he said. "Everyone is on the same page as far as it moving forward."

The Patrick administration is continuing to plan an overhaul of the state's transportation structure and financing. Gov. Patrick has met with Rep. Antonio F.D. Cabral, D-New Bedford, to discuss Rep. Cabral's proposal to raise new funds for rail projects across the state.

Rep. Cabral would charge "green fees" on vehicles, with higher charges for SUVs and heavy trucks. He would also redirect some of the fees that are no longer needed for the Big Dig toward rail.

Rep. Cabral called the increase in rail bonding a "positive move forward, but in the end we need to really come together" on new revenue sources.

"The state does not have the bonding capacity at this time to really do it the way we normally do it," Rep. Cabral said. "I think we need to find new revenue sources. We need to find a creative, innovative funding mechanism for the SouthCoast project and for commuter rail as a whole."

Sen. Montigny added a number of other local projects to the transportation bond bill. A partial list included $4 million for traffic and pedestrian improvements in downtown New Bedford and the waterfront, $2 million for a bike and pedestrian path along the hurricane barrier in New Bedford, $2 million for improvements on Acushnet Avenue from Braley Road to the Freetown town line, $3 million for Route 18 upgrades, and $50,000 to update street signs in Mattapoisett.
Click to expand...

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/NEWS/803260358
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Listen, if the bumps are getting annoying, let me know and I apologize; but I think this one is worth it.


Peter Pereira

Rail Officials Eye 5 Options Including Bus
By Joe Cohen
Standard-TImes staff wrtier
April 30, 2008 12:53 PM

FALL RIVER ? State and regional officials studying commuter rail service between SouthCoast and Boston are looking at five options ? including a bus service ? and will select a final route in a year.

That is the plan, officials said Wednesday at a ceremony marking the first anniversary of the Patrick administration?s commitment to bringing commuter rail service to this city and New Bedford.

About 100 people attended an hour-long ceremony marking the anniversary where officials announced they have narrowed route choices to four possible rail lines, a bus route along Route 24 and a ?no-build? alternative.

Some skeptics noted that planning for commuter rail from Boston to SouthCoast has been going on in one form or another since 1985, and there has been little to show for it. However, all officials speaking praised the Patrick administration for following through on its commitments to move the project along.

Kristina Egan, project manager for the South Coast Rail Project, said her team will study the four rail options to determine what environmental and other hurdles might need to be addressed. Ms. Egan said a year from now a single rail route will be chosen and progress will continue.

The Patrick administration has pledged to have commuter rail running by 2016. The project is estimated to cost $1.4 billion and no major financing method has been identified.

New Bedford Mayor Scott W. Lang used the ceremony to suggest another possibility ? moving immediately forward with construction of the commuter rail sections from New Bedford and Fall River to the point south of Taunton where they would join with any one of the four options.

Mayor Lang said those sections ?have to be built? regardless of which rail route is chosen, and given the ?extreme economic downturn? that exists on SouthCoast, it would serve as a workforce employment project akin to the WPA during the Great Depression.

Contact Joe Cohen at jcohen@s-t.com

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080430/NEWS/80430007
Click to expand...

I don't like the sound of the "bus" option, I'd need to hear more about it, but given that it needs to rely on Route 24, and it's a bus, I'm not convinced on how much of an efficient alternative it would be (not that the MBTA CR service is the golden standard of reliability).

**EDIT**
More detailed information on the 5 options in PDF form available at the link below. haven't read through them, but I will when I have time (finals are fast approaching).
http://www.southcoastrail.com/refmaterials.asp?area=refm
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

There already is a bus service between Boston and New Bedford. It is now called DATTCO and was formerly called American Eagle.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I know DATTCO is already in place, but I would assume that the Bus "alternative" would be an MBTA owned/operated service (or at least subsidized by the organization). While it's good to have the bus as an option, another bus is not a good alternative to the commuter rail.

Another thing that's bothering me in reading some of the PDFs is that a "concern" of the project is the rail line passing through densely settled areas of New Bedford and Fall River. Now, all of the rail that would be included in the CR is already in place in either of those cities, and little work needs to be done to make sure those tracks are up to date as both cities have been working to keep their sections of rail in working order for potential freight and CR expansions. But would densely populated urban areas be a problem? If anything, it should serve as more reason to extend the rail there. The more settled the area around the rails and stations are, the more likely you are to see higher ridership and less dependency on automotive traffic to access the stations (although there will be some). I'm worried that NIMBYs will ruin this.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Enough with the buses already. Between the Silver Line, Urban Ring, and the 183 other local routes around Boston, the last thing we need is another cheap and quick bus solution.

Let's see how many more people we can cram on Route 24. Maybe then will they consider to make it an interstate instead of a state road.

These lines NEED to run through densely populated areas, because these are the community centers the trains need to service. Put up an acoustical barrier/fence in some pesky areas and call it a day. This is what other cities and states do, why not us? Special treatmeant for the whiny New Englanders? I think not.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

MBTA commuter trains already pass through densely settled areas of Somerville, Cambridge, Belmont, Waltham, Medford, Winchester, Chelsea, Revere, Lynn, Salem, Gloucester, Malden, Melrose, Haverhill, Wellesley, Natick, Framingham, Roslindale, West Roxbury ... need we go on?
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

So in the Standard Times today, it was revealed that the Bus alternative would require the addition of specialized bus only lanes to routes 140 (from NB to Taunton at the 24 interchange) and route 24.

That's better than having them run freely along 24, but what about when they reach the most congested sections of the trip- routes 128 and 93? I'm pretty sure that the addition of bus only lanes isn't in the books for 128 and 93, and would probably require some much needed expansion to the S. Station bus terminal.

On top of not adding too much reliability, the bus-lane solution would probably be nearly as pricey as updating the rail (which has already been done in Fall River and NB) and not nearly as efficient. It's almost like the state's half-ass attempt at pleasing everyone... No rail for the poor souls in the dense neighborhoods and suburbs to have to hear, and the pro-CR people will have their "solution" so they'll shut up too. In reality they'll have a lot of blown money and no real solution to the commuter problem. I really can't imagine that a bus lane along 24 will really decrease commute time while increasing reliability all that much. It's such a copout idea.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Adding Bus-only lanes to highways into/out of the city, along with bus only lanes along Surface Road/RKG could become a very good and well-used system.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^Absolutely. But the plan (what I've seen so far, anyway) only mentions bus-only lanes on route 24. Nothing about 93, 90, 1, etc. I agree that bus lanes are a good idea, I just don't think it should be considered an ALTERNATIVE to the S.Coast rail project; especially if the bus-only lanes aren't included on the most congested sections of highway on the route.

Bus lanes would be a good move, but they need to be done all the way into the city. In fact, it would be a better proposal to have the bus-only lanes on 128 and 93 where congestion is thicker and not have them on 24. That way buses have their own artery in the most heavily trafficked area in the state and the lanes are available to buses from ALL points south, not just route 24.

It's a great idea, just not an alternative to the CR to Fall River/NB. Those are two large population areas in the state and they could benefit greatly from potential TOD that could only occur with rail development.
 
Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I would not want to ride such a long distance, at highway speed, on an MBTA bus. It's bad enough taking the 441 from Haymarket to Marblehead. Shake, rattle, and (hopefully) don't roll.

Dattco's buses are reasonably comfortable Greyhound-style coaches.
 
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