Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

[CSTH]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^ with you on this one Westie...

 

[Roxxma]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

I hope that the bone-headed Deval / Dukakis-ian idea of the New Bedford / Fall River Line is put on hold for the next few decades

While I'm certain Dukakis probably would have supported it, had it come up during his term, the planning began in earnest during his successor's term and further supported by Gov. Weld's successor, Governor Cellucci and then by his successor, Lt. Gov. Swift, and then by her successor, Gov. Romney, and then on to Gov. Patrick.

 

[whighlander]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

While I'm certain Dukakis probably would have supported it, had it come up during his term, the planning began in earnest during his successor's term and further supported by Gov. Weld's successor, Governor Cellucci and then by his successor, Lt. Gov. Swift, and then by her successor, Gov. Romney, and then on to Gov. Patrick.

Roxxma -- the reference to M. Stanley D was of course a gratuitous excess

However -- it doesn't really matter whether the MDuk was involved or not -- the idea of building a multi $B train to carry about 2 bus loads of people per day -- was and remains Pure Duk in terms of its egregious abuse of the public treasure

Analogous to his support as the Amtrak Tzar-wanna-be to have the public pay for the huge losses incurred by the trains carrying the itinerant troubadours and Jack Kerouac pretenders across the empty western stretches

 

[whighlander]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

^ with you on this one Westie...

CSTH -- Thanks for the support -- we need to make sure that reality intrudes into these discussions from time to time

 

[ant8904]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

CSTH -- Thanks for the support -- we need to make sure that reality intrudes into these discussions from time to time

Are you just dense or deliberately playing the "I'm not touching you" game. Of all the threads, you post that line here that you are the voice of reason. The thread that multiple posters have chimed how much as waste of money and how much we would celebrate to see SCR die, you chime in this thread - that basically you and and everyone here are in agreement - but you imply the opposite.

The condescension annoys, but when you're condescending in the one thread you might not run into a ton of opposition, it's infuriating.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Are you just dense or deliberately playing the "I'm not touching you" game. Of all the threads, you post that line here that you are the voice of reason. The thread that multiple posters have chimed how much as waste of money and how much we would celebrate to see SCR die, you chime in this thread - that basically you and and everyone here are in agreement - but you imply the opposite.

The condescension annoys, but when you're condescending in the one thread you might not run into a ton of opposition, it's infuriating.

This X infinity

 

[GP40MC]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Now back to the slobbering love affair with all thing's EMU/DMU, GLXcess and
Urbane Rings

D

 

[underground]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Now back to the slobbering love affair with all thing's EMU/DMU, GLXcess

Yeah, what's up with everyone being so into the most cost effective upgrades we could make to the T? What a bunch of idiots!

 

[belmont square]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Yeah, what's up with everyone being so into the most cost effective upgrades we could make to the T? What a bunch of idiots!

Supplementing moderately-patronized bus routes with a $2b light rail line?

 

[deh74]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Supplementing moderately-patronized bus routes with a $2b light rail line?

Providing rapid transit access to the most densely populated town in the state?

 

[belmont square]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Providing rapid transit access to the most densely populated town in the state?

We all know that's a bogus a stat. Somerville neighborhoods rarely approach the density of everett or chelsea neighborhoods. It's Somerville's lack of commercial or industrial neighborhoods within the municipality that gave birth to that oft-repeated line.

If my building lot seceded from boston and became an independent municipality I'd be living in the most densely populated city in new England. Would I get a green line extension then or would I still have to walk 4 blocks to maverick?

Also I think the mbta brought rapid transit service to Somerville in the 1980s w davis station and most of the population within walking distance of Sullivan is Somerville too.

 

[bigeman312]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

So how 'bout that Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail?

Anybody witness the grade-crossing and bridge work going on this summer?

(by the way: take the GLX debate to the GLX thread)

 

[CantabAmager]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

(by the way: take the GLX debate to the GLX thread)

Uhhh damn and I had stats I want to share. (mods?)

Just saying, the US census tries to assign census tracts to encompass 4000 people at the most - that's a standard to measure from. Belmont's (also bogus) claim is that somehow Somervile isn't dense enough to support a light-rail system - which is a specious argument. Of the two towns, the census tract covering Bellingham Square in Chelsea is the most populated at 9000. The next six tracts in order of population are all in Somerville (5000-7000), which is well above average for an American city and well within the average density required to support light rail. The argument isn't that Somerville isn't dense enough, it's that other areas are so dense that deserve/need to be wired in to the rapid transit with better facilities.

Anyways, FR/NB....what's the impact of MBTA-CR service on the new port infra down on the coast? Are they sharing trackage?

 

[Arlington]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Anyways, FR/NB....what's the impact of MBTA-CR service on the new port infra down on the coast? Are they sharing trackage?

From Taunton-Southward, yes.

And the cost problem with FR/NB rail is the silly insistance that the Stoughton-Taunton shortcut-through-wetland segment be reactivated and electrified and be single-track none of which make sense, and they get worse when you put them together.

Adding capacity via Middleboro (double tracking) or via Attleboro (passing sidings or Fairmont electrification & tie-in) and then sharing the CSX freight system southward would be much more cost effective (and get you weekend Cape Flyer-style service from BOS to both FR & NB, and also let you sponsor new Amtrak weekend New York to FR/NB/Hyannis serivice--THAT is a real system for

- Park and Ride at Attleboro, Taunton, & Middleboro with usable frequencies
- Weekend Summer Service that actually delivers tourists from Boston, RI, Connecticut and NYC.
- Good freight service for everything else.

 

[CantabAmager]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

From Taunton-Southward, yes.

Adding capacity via Middleboro (double tracking) or via Attleboro (passing sidings or Fairmont electrification & tie-in) and then sharing the CSX freight system southward would be much more cost effective (and get you weekend Cape Flyer-style service from BOS to both FR & NB, and also let you sponsor new Amtrak weekend New York to FR/NB/Hyannis service

Haven't they already programmed funds for the Middleborough Secondary work in the current CIP? Could that an precede an attempt to salvage some sort of Cape Flyer and/or Cape Codder restoration service pattern - or just standard maintenance?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

The single track bottlenecks on the South Station to Braintree route need to be addressed even if you don't expect to ever have the Old Colony Lines serve station stops they aren't already serving, so it probably makes a lot of sense to just plan on double tracking South Station to Braintree commuter rail with the costs of doing that not charged to South Coast Rail, and then run South Coast Rail via Braintree and Quincy.

(And part of this probably ought to involve acknowledging that having 4 Red Line tracks and only one commuter rail track at Savin Hill makes zero sense. It made some sense when it was one freight track with no commuter rail. A new flyover south of Savin Hill might provide the most straightforward service pattern, with all future Braintree trains stopping at Savin Hill, but another option would be to keep the southbound Red Line trains on their current tracks at Savin Hill, and use the northbound platform track at Savin Hill for both Braintree and Ashmont trains; the simplest way to do that might involve left hand running on the Braintree branch.)

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

new Amtrak weekend New York to FR/NB/Hyannis

I suspect Amtrak is going to claim that on Friday evenings, wasting a Connecticut River bridge slot on a train going to Hyannis instead of South Station doesn't make sense. However, having a Providence to Hyannis train meeting Amtrak service for a cross platform transfer at Providence might work. Or maybe extending Shore Line East train 1636 (arrives New London at 5:42 PM) to Hyannis would work.

 

[CantabAmager]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

The single track bottlenecks on the South Station to Braintree route need to be addressed even if you don't expect to ever have the Old Colony Lines serve station stops they aren't already serving, so it probably makes a lot of sense to just plan on double tracking South Station to Braintree commuter rail with the costs of doing that not charged to South Coast Rail, and then run South Coast Rail via Braintree and Quincy.

(And part of this probably ought to involve acknowledging that having 4 Red Line tracks and only one commuter rail track at Savin Hill makes zero sense. It made some sense when it was one freight track with no commuter rail. A new flyover south of Savin Hill might provide the most straightforward service pattern, with all future Braintree trains stopping at Savin Hill, but another option would be to keep the southbound Red Line trains on their current tracks at Savin Hill, and use the northbound platform track at Savin Hill for both Braintree and Ashmont trains; the simplest way to do that might involve left hand running on the Braintree branch.)

No one's touching the OC pinch through Dorchester until the State is willing to engage with Southeast Expressway again (if they ever want to go down that HOV lanes will solve everything path). MPO mapped out a conceptual plan for the eliminating the flyover and burying + double tracking OC from Southampton St to the Neponset Embankment as part of a 93 widening/HOV lane project. Also finally settling the "which track will the inbound come to" at JFK. That's not going to be any cheaper than SCR though, I'd say it'd carry some real benefits (especially if they tacked another infill station on the Braintree branch), but OC only happens with 93.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

No one's touching the OC pinch through Dorchester until the State is willing to engage with Southeast Expressway again (if they ever want to go down that HOV lanes will solve everything path). MPO mapped out a conceptual plan for the eliminating the flyover and burying + double tracking OC from Southampton St to the Neponset Embankment as part of a 93 widening/HOV lane project. Also finally settling the "which track will the inbound come to" at JFK. That's not going to be any cheaper than SCR though, I'd say it'd carry some real benefits (especially if they tacked another infill station on the Braintree branch), but OC only happens with 93.

Why would one be confident that everyone is committed to the do nothing option if the gold plated option is too expensive? The key to addressing the Old Colony bottlenecks is to look at how to value engineer a solution so that something can actually get built, and the best bang for the buck with respect to capacity is reallocate one of the Red Line tracks at Savin Hill to become the second commuter rail track. (If it improves commuter rail service enough that some passengers switch from Red Line to commuter rail, Red Line dwell times south of the Neponset might even improve enough to offset any increased travel time on the Red Line that might come from making the extra station stop at Savin Hill.)

The sections in Quincy where there's a roadway right next to the tracks filling the right of way will probably be the bigger challenge to Old Colony double tracking.

(Yes, eliminating the fourth Red Line track at Savin Hill cuts off the crazy transit pitches that want to extend the Cabot yard leads into a new tunnel for revenue service somewhere. But I don't think any of the crazy transit pitches have successfully argued that their plans make more sense than addressing the Old Colony bottlenecks, and there'd be nothing stopping us from going back several decades later to add the express bypass tracks at Savin Hill in the expensive tunnel as part of a bigger Cabot Yard lead tunnel project.)

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail

Well, well, look what MassDOT just tweeted:

Mass. Transportation @MassDOT
#Taunton: new Dean Street #RR crossing, part of #SouthCoastRail early action work. #Freetown #NewBedford

https://twitter.com/MassDOT/status/715962228172800001