Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

[617]

I thought this coincided with improvements to the old colony line ? I guess not ?

 

[Java King]

I thought this coincided with improvements to the old colony line ? I guess not ?

Nope! Not yet. The mainline between Braintree and South Station has some serious limitations with single-track on a large portion of it. It might have been the MAPC or maybe MassDot, but there was a recent survey asking about "the next big transit project" that Mass should be planning for. I wrote in the survey the Old Colony main line should be double-tracked from Braintree to South Station to allow for reasonable service to Fall River/New Bedford. I think there have been various studies along with some reconstruction ideas of I-93, but nothing serious that I've seen other than a few "planning" ideas. It's crazy to me. Kingston, Greenbush, Fall River, and New Bedford are all branches that merge on a single track on much of way from Braintree to South Station. Throw in a Plymouth branch, and you have FIVE branches merging into a single track. No other rail lines in the MBTA Commuter Rail system have that bottleneck.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Nope! Not yet. The mainline between Braintree and South Station has some serious limitations with single-track on a large portion of it. It might have been the MAPC or maybe MassDot, but there was a recent survey asking about "the next big transit project" that Mass should be planning for. I wrote in the survey the Old Colony main line should be double-tracked from Braintree to South Station to allow for reasonable service to Fall River/New Bedford. I think there have been various studies along with some reconstruction ideas of I-93, but nothing serious that I've seen other than a few "planning" ideas. It's crazy to me. Kingston, Greenbush, Fall River, and New Bedford are all branches that merge on a single track on much of way from Braintree to South Station. Throw in a Plymouth branch, and you have FIVE branches merging into a single track. No other rail lines in the MBTA Commuter Rail system have that bottleneck.

Isn't there also another "throat" issue with space allocation for the double tracking versus I-93 lanes that has MassDOT tied up in knots?

 

[KCasiglio]

The Wollaston station reconstruction also did not provision for double tracking iirc

 

[RandomWalk]

Any time a proposal for double tracking surfaces, the highway folks want to tie it up with more lanes for 93.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Isn't there also another "throat" issue with space allocation for the double tracking versus I-93 lanes that has MassDOT tied up in knots?

In general the alignment is quite narrow, and finding space for an extra track in many sections would be... difficult.

Nope! Not yet. The mainline between Braintree and South Station has some serious limitations with single-track on a large portion of it. It might have been the MAPC or maybe MassDot, but there was a recent survey asking about "the next big transit project" that Mass should be planning for. I wrote in the survey the Old Colony main line should be double-tracked from Braintree to South Station to allow for reasonable service to Fall River/New Bedford. I think there have been various studies along with some reconstruction ideas of I-93, but nothing serious that I've seen other than a few "planning" ideas. It's crazy to me. Kingston, Greenbush, Fall River, and New Bedford are all branches that merge on a single track on much of way from Braintree to South Station. Throw in a Plymouth branch, and you have FIVE branches merging into a single track. No other rail lines in the MBTA Commuter Rail system have that bottleneck.

My preferred solution would probably be:

1. Plymouth or Kingston, pick 1. (I vote for service into downtown Plymouth, or at least closer to it. A ~2mi extension to Lothrop St would be very easy.)
2. SCR Phase 2 for faster service to New Bedford/Fall River.
3. Consolidate the RL at JFK/UMass to allow for 2 CR platforms. As part of this the split point would be moved to Savin Hill, freeing up room for full double track along the Dorchester segment.
4. Double track between Braintree and Quincy Adams, there's room for it already. This leaves a 3 mile stretch single tracked.
5. Close Quincy Center CR to increase average speed along the single-track section
6. Add a passing loop at Quincy Center by cutting into Freedom 'Park'

That leaves 3 branches, Greenbush, Plymouth, and Middleborough/Lakeville. (Although with SCR maybe the line should be cut back to Bridgewater? That's a different question for another time.) The lack of recovery from the pandemic and the generally low ridership probably don't warrant <30min headways on Greenbush, but an extension to Plymouth would likely boost ridership on that branch, and MB/L ridership has actually exceed pre-pandemic ridership. We'll allow 15 minute headways on both of these lines. It seems like this is just barely possible with the previously mentioned measures and these headways.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

In general the alignment is quite narrow, and finding space for an extra track in many sections would be... difficult.

My preferred solution would probably be:
Plymouth or Kingston, pick 1. (I vote for service into downtown Plymouth, or at least closer to it. A ~2mi extension to Lothrop St would be very easy.)

Kingston has been a great big TOD failure with the carpocalyptic big-box proliferation surrounding it, the intentional access disconnection from the adjacent country club residential, and Kingston Collection being a textbook dying suburban mall. Cordage Park, itself a TOD failure for years because of stalled development, is at least starting to get its act together on mixed-use density, and Downtown Plymouth is very walkable. I think the T needs to have an exit strategy in mind for the Kingston sand pit in the next 20 years, because the dev winds are blowing away from it and towards Plymouth. They can keep the Kingston Branch for the layover yard, but a new mainline station (closer to Downtown Kingston anyway) with all schedules running to Downtown Plymouth should be the goal.

Consolidate the RL at JFK/UMass to allow for 2 CR platforms. As part of this the split point would be moved to Savin Hill, freeing up room for full double track along the Dorchester segment.

I diagrammed out how to do it in this post. Includes treating the area between Southampton Yard and Columbia Jct., and compacting Columbia Jct. YMMV on whether a 2-track Red mainline through Savin Hill with a split down on the Clayton St. approach is doable. Just beware that no traffic modeling has been done for that, so it might unduly fuck with overall RL resiliency. My MS Paint drawings preserve the Columbia split and 4-track JFK station (there's plenty of room to turn the CR platform into an island by reshaping the inner busway and freeing up the Old Colony Ave. pavement in a reconfig of Columbia rotary).

Double track between Braintree and Quincy Adams, there's room for it already. This leaves a 3 mile stretch single tracked.

There's room from East Braintree wye to Braintree Station if the Route 3 overpass were widened. Then the stub track of the freight yard can become the second main.

It's much tougher north of there. You'd have to nuke/rebuild the 1980 track underpass of the Red Line and associated incline because that most definitely is only single-track width. Probably also straighten the alignment so it's not such a speed restriction (it's laid out the way it is because of the switch to the now-defunct West Quincy Industrial Track freight spur). Quincy Adams Station itself also is going to be an incredibly tight squeeze. If it's true DT width (and I don't know if it is), it's got zero safety buffer from the foundations. It's noteworthy that TransitMatters left south-tip-of-Quincy Center to East Braintree Jct. as single track, given the difficulty involved. They said that :30 Regional Rail on all 3 branches would be safely doable with that stretch left single-track, and since they didn't try any crazy-high speed limit games on the mainline like they did on the branches that probably ends up holding up to scrutiny. Finishing Quincy Center-East Braintree Jct. may be something you defer till later when :15 Urban Rail service to Brockton is desired. Plain old :30 Regional Rail probably doesn't need it.

Close Quincy Center CR to increase average speed along the single-track section
Add a passing loop at Quincy Center by cutting into Freedom 'Park'

Bad idea. You want Regional Rail stopping at major bus hubs. It's multimodal Viagra. QC itself can be double-tracked without undue expense by digging out the gravel embankment the current platform abuts, re-capping the Burgin Parkway kiss-and-ride, and punching regularly-spaced holes in the retaining wall from the current platform to reach the other side of the doubled-up island. Freedom Park and Wollaston were likewise left alone by TransitMatters (again...absent the speed-limit insanity on the main vs. the branches, so their traffic modeling is more likely to hold up to scrutiny), with the QC platforms acting as the timing mechanism for treating that 1.4 mi. of single-track to the north. You might need some DT here for :15 Urban Rail to Brockton, but :30-:30-:30 on the branches can probably live without.

That leaves 3 branches, Greenbush, Plymouth, and Middleborough/Lakeville. (Although with SCR maybe the line should be cut back to Bridgewater? That's a different question for another time.) The lack of recovery from the pandemic and the generally low ridership probably don't warrant <30min headways on Greenbush, but an extension to Plymouth would likely boost ridership on that branch, and MB/L ridership has actually exceed pre-pandemic ridership. We'll allow 15 minute headways on both of these lines. It seems like this is just barely possible with the previously mentioned measures and these headways.

Greenbush would do a lot better on ridership if it had the frequencies, and Regional Rail is supposed to be a region-wide transformative service tier so it shouldn't be a game of playing favorites with who gets the spoils. It's one thing if immovable infrastructure constraints force something like Needham looking from the sidelines on :30 frequencies; it's quite another if the killshot double-tracking for unlocking :30 frequencies on all the OC branches leads one to put finger on the scale for somebody's branch while punishing somebody else's branch.

If there's anywhere past-128 meriting :15 frequencies it's Brockton. Gateway city of 90K, large RTA bus system centered on the CR station, adjacent third-track siding for a layover yard, island-platformed downtown stop enabling easy turnbacks. Plymouth Line doesn't have a node of that kind of heft, nor the density of bus connections at any of its stops. So only one of the branches really checks off the utilization boxes for bringing Urban Rail :15 frequencies past Braintree. Do whatever additional Quincy double-tracking segments enable that, cull half the runs at Brockton, leave :30 service continuing to Campello, Bridgewater, Middleboro, Wareham, and Buzzards Bay.

 

[Java King]

Cordage Park, itself a TOD failure for years because of stalled development, is at least starting to get its act together on mixed-use density, and Downtown Plymouth is very walkable.

As you know, Transit Matters proposed extending to Plymouth Center. Cordage Park is getting some nice development as you mentioned. Untold Brewery of Scituate just opened a new large taproom there. https://www.untoldbrewing.com/plymouth

Bad idea. You want Regional Rail stopping at major bus hubs.

I think Quincy Center is quite popular among Old Colony train branches. The MBTA publishes a South Station - Braintree Shuttle schedule that shows how many trains stop at QC throughout the day. It's fairly impressive.

Greenbush would do a lot better on ridership if it had the frequencies, and Regional Rail is supposed to be a region-wide transformative service tier so it shouldn't be a game of playing favorites with who gets the spoils. It's one thing if immovable infrastructure constraints force something like Needham looking from the sidelines on :30 frequencies; it's quite another if the killshot double-tracking for unlocking :30 frequencies on all the OC branches leads one to put finger on the scale for somebody's branch while punishing somebody else's branch.

I would settle for 1-hour headways. There are many larger gaps over an hour in the current schedule.

 

[stick n move]

End of the line for South Coast Rail: MBTA to talk project's final stages at meeting​

​

“FALL RIVER — It's nearly boarding time.
The South Coast Rail team has invited the public to a community meeting to discuss the project, which is wrapping up construction. The meeting will be held on Wednesday, April 10, at 6 p.m. at Morton Middle School.

Here’s what to expect and how to take part:

Who will be at the South Coast Rail meeting?​

Representatives from the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority will be on hand to deliver information about Fall River’s new commuter rail line to Boston.

What will the MBTA be talking about?​

• Construction: The entire South Coast Rail project should be substantially complete by the end of this month, so the MBTA will be marking that milestone.
• Testing: The project is now in the midst of a monthslong testing phase where the MBTA simulates service.
• Safety: The MBTA has been heavily promoting the need for caution along the rights of way and discouraging illegal dumping.

When will the first South Coast Rail train finally roll out of the station? How much will a ticket cost? What's the South Coast Rail train schedule? Will it run on weekends?​

The MBTA has not yet answered any of these questions publicly — more information may be available at the April 10 meeting, or ask them yourself during the question-and-answer period.

How do I take part in the meeting?​

The meeting, in Morton’s auditorium at 1135 N. Main St., is free and open to the public.”

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/sto...7BYuJrdUBWnrpvLMtvBswADl4#lunv1gsc1o4l5qgfiuf

 

[TheRatmeister]

End of the line for South Coast Rail: MBTA to talk project's final stages at meeting​

​

“FALL RIVER — It's nearly boarding time.
The South Coast Rail team has invited the public to a community meeting to discuss the project, which is wrapping up construction. The meeting will be held on Wednesday, April 10, at 6 p.m. at Morton Middle School.

Here’s what to expect and how to take part:

Who will be at the South Coast Rail meeting?​

Representatives from the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority will be on hand to deliver information about Fall River’s new commuter rail line to Boston.

What will the MBTA be talking about?​

• Construction: The entire South Coast Rail project should be substantially complete by the end of this month, so the MBTA will be marking that milestone.
• Testing: The project is now in the midst of a monthslong testing phase where the MBTA simulates service.
• Safety: The MBTA has been heavily promoting the need for caution along the rights of way and discouraging illegal dumping.

When will the first South Coast Rail train finally roll out of the station? How much will a ticket cost? What's the South Coast Rail train schedule? Will it run on weekends?​

The MBTA has not yet answered any of these questions publicly — more information may be available at the April 10 meeting, or ask them yourself during the question-and-answer period.

How do I take part in the meeting?​

The meeting, in Morton’s auditorium at 1135 N. Main St., is free and open to the public.”

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/sto...7BYuJrdUBWnrpvLMtvBswADl4#lunv1gsc1o4l5qgfiuf

Does anyone have information about what was said during the meeting?

 

[themissinglink]

Does anyone have information about what was said during the meeting?

The meeting is ongoing but it's only in person and not on Zoom so I assume we won't hear anything until after the meeting concludes.

 

[TheRatmeister]

The meeting is ongoing but it's only in person and not on Zoom so I assume we won't hear anything until after the meeting concludes.

You're right I goofed on the time zone conversion, my bad.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

The SCR Project Manager just yesterday weaseled out of projecting a start date, so I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering to come out of this meeting.

Now, safety testing can occur once construction is completed. When asked about a start date, Project Manager for South Coast Rail Jean Fox said “I don’t have it at this time because the testing and commissioning is so robust. We’re going to keep targeting and pushing and pushing. It’s going to take a while. That’s what it’s all about, safety.”

 

[TheRatmeister]

The SCR Project Manager just yesterday weaseled out of projecting a start date, so I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering to come out of this meeting.

The bit I'm selfishly interested in is the fare zones, but any other project updates would be nice. I would hope those have been decided by now.

 

[OldColony]

The SCR Project Manager just yesterday weaseled out of projecting a start date, so I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering to come out of this meeting.

Project Manager Jean Fox presented an update on status during the Cape Cod Chapter, NRHS banquet last June. I noted her presentation then did not include a planned opening date, so I asked during the Q&A. She said it was hoped to be late "this year" (2023), but it was dependent on PTC testing. Any defects found could lead to a delay of months, so early 2024 was more likely she said last June. Slip sliding away...

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Project Manager Jean Fox presented an update on status during the Cape Cod Chapter, NRHS banquet last June. I noted her presentation then did not include a planned opening date, so I asked during the Q&A. She said it was hoped to be late "this year" (2023), but it was dependent on PTC testing. Any defects found could lead to a delay of months, so early 2024 was more likely she said last June. Slip sliding away...

According to RR.net spotters the signal heads on the New Bedford Branch weren't even turned facing the ROW until a month ago, which means the signal system wasn't operational until at most a month ago. So they definitely weren't doing live PTC testing at any point during calendar year 2023.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Summer start to South Coast Rail looks 'unlikely' — but there's one bright spot for riders

People who had questions about the consumer-level details of South Coast Rail service left with few answers — and a sense that more delays are coming.

eu.heraldnews.com

Have the fares really not been determined or is it just embarrassing that a monthly pass will cost more than $400 and they're looking to bury that under the more positive start of service headlines?

 

[jklo]

Have the fares really not been determined or is it just embarrassing that a monthly pass will cost more than $400 and they're looking to bury that under the more positive start of service headlines?

Probably, and Zone 9 seems appropriate ($406)

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Probably, and Zone 9 seems appropriate ($406)

I somewhat doubt they'll lump East Taunton in with Middleboro's Zone 8 such that the branches are all-9. If they're going by distance the difference between M'Boro and E. Taunton is enough for a zone jump. So this might indeed be a prelude to the sticker shock of Zone 10 from the cities being Friday-afternoon-news-dumped sometime this summer.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Probably, and Zone 9 seems appropriate ($406)

Yeah but that's still crazy expensive, even by American standards. Here's what a monthly pass for a similar or greater distance costs on various other rail systems in the US:

System	Cost
LIRR	$378 (Port Jefferson to NY Penn or GC)
Metro North	$366.25 (Fairfield to Grand Central, Could it really not be a round number guys?)
SEPTA Regional Rail	$204 (Newark DE to Philly, A little bit shorter than Boston-Fall River but only by <10mi)
NJ Transit	$310 (Atlantic City to Philly), $451 (Princeton Jct to NY Penn), $351 (Trenton to Newark) Oh and a special shoutout to NJT for making their monthly pass fares impossible to find, good job.
METRA	$135 (!!!) (Harvard to Oglevie TC)
Caltrain	$238.80 (San Jose Diridion to San Francisco)

Or if I wanted to buy a pass that lets me travel anywhere in the Netherlands, on any train, at any time, for an entire month, that would cost me about $385.50. No CR pass should cost more than that. (For a size comparison, that's about MA-RI-CT all put together.)