Fan Pier Developments | Seaport

Look, whether or not you woule like to admit it, there is SOME good that comes out of football stadiums in major locations. I'm not saying by any means that stadiums are the sole saviors of an area. But just like Lowe's or any other anchor store in a shopping complex, there is some economic value that comes out of NFL teams in major cities. In fact, sometimes these franchises can help draw the major drug profitors into major markets.
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I absolutely agree. Does that mean we need to build a venue that rarely helps jumpstart (and usually retards) surrounding urban development on some of the city's primest real estate? Which brings me to...

I don't know if you're a sports fan (and quite frankly I don't really care either way), but nevertheless, when the Pats (at their height of championship fame) had their rallies in BOSTON. Despite playing 40 minutes south of the city, and there were restaurants packed with red, white and blue shirts and #12 jerseys. Same with the Sox and C's.
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This goes pretty far to show that it doesn't matter where the stadium is located; many of the benefits you want accrue to the city anyway.

Imagine if Mumbles were to tell the Bruins, Celtics and Sox to take a hike. You would see the economic collapse in the short and long term.
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This might be the most absurd thing you've said so far. Sports teams follow economically successful metro areas, not vice versa. A full deck of pro sports teams aren't saving Detroit. For that matter, plenty of US metro areas are thriving despite their lack of teams.

But Gillette doesn't just hold football games; revs, summer concerts, hs football

Also (plus playoffs most years)

The "once every sunday" argument is weak. A sellout stadium crowd that hold nearly 60,000 a week, will be as much a benefit as fenway which isn't even 40,000 capacity.
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You're talking about really marginal benefits, considering that, in comparison, you could have tens of thousands more people living and working in this area every day, 24 hours a day.
 
According to a history of Kraft's efforts to build a stadium in Boston, Weld wanted it in Roxbury, and Kraft and Menino wanted it in Southie. The residents of Southie and Roxbury didn't want it at all, so the proposal withered away in the face of community opposition. Weld then tried a second time to put it in South Boston, with Kraft secretly designing plans, and Menino being kept in the dark. The plans leaked, the residents of Southie erupted in protest, and Menino, having been shut out by Weld, chirped in. Menino can count votes as well as anybody.

See p. 192:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oS...epage&q=Patriots stadium roxbury weld&f=false

IIRC, Steve Lynch was a leader of those in Southie who opposed the Patriots building a stadium there.
 
IMO, Kraft managed the whole affair poorly from start to finish, alienating just about everyone in any room he presented his plans in. Neighborhood non-profits were promised benefits which they knew they would never see if the stadium was not built... a transparent ploy that ran contrary to the altruism on which their respective missions were based.

But as I recall, it was largely due to a move by former Congressman Joe Moakley that killed the stadium. At the 11th hour, Moakley put the kabosh on any possible taking of the federally owned building at the corner of D and Summer Street, a key parcel in the Stadium plans.

As a side note, having wisely shown Kraft the door, Southie widely supported the BCEC contingent on a number of promises enacted into the funding legislation. Among the restrictions were #1: no gate shows and #2: no hotels south of Summer Street. With time passing, the BCEC legislation is proposed to be amended, allowing gate shows and hotels south of Summer St.
 
Not that there was any good reason to ban hotels south of Summer Street. The Westin Waterfront hotel, on the south side of Summer Street, has no negative impact on residential South Boston.
 
I don't remember the rationale for the hotel ban and won't disagree with your point about impacts.

It's worth noting, however, that BCEC expansion plans propose hotel and ancillary convention center projects on key parcels slated for residential development in the 100 Acre Plan.
 
czsz said:
I absolutely agree. Does that mean we need to build a venue that rarely helps jumpstart (and usually retards) surrounding urban development on some of the city's primest real estate? Which brings me to...

A full deck of pro sports teams aren't saving Detroit. For that matter, plenty of US metro areas are thriving despite their lack of teams.


You're talking about really marginal benefits, considering that, in comparison, you could have tens of thousands more people living and working in this area every day, 24 hours a day.
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I didn't say that stadiums are the sole saving grace. And nothing can save Detroit. Stadiums or no stadiums. But in a city like Boston that is rich in tradition (including sports), wouldn't you admit that the four pro Mass teams helps to draw in revenue?


Stellarfun, I knew that Tommy wanted the stadium originally, and him and Weld were in limbo with residents, but what pissed me off about those two was that they caved to the residents. I DIDN'T know about Rep. Steven Lynch opposing it. Sicilian, did the late Joe Moakley oppose it as well?

And I'll be fair to Tom, I think that he had some vison for Boston early on, but from them on, he has caved to the NIMBY's and that has been his legacy (besides raising the terror alert to red thanks to the Mooninites: Ignokt and Err). A good mayor would do what's best for his/her city, and then move. He cares more about votes and legacy (which is a pretty mortifying one).

Go to Denver. Go to D.C. Go to Philly (okay Philly BAD example), but the other two have all four stadiums in their cities, and while they aren't the magic fix, they also are the pieces of the puzzle.
 
There's not a football stadium in DC.

And none of this has anything to do with Fan Pier, which by the way has three rigs drilling for samples, now immediately adjacent to Louis Boston drilling. They've made their way west to east over the last week or so. It will be interesting to see how soon work starts in earnest.
 
Do the individual buildings require approval, or are they good to go as the whole plan was approved?

I'm sure they would start construction as soon as the ink on the actual lease agreement is dry.
 
Mayor Menino's Crohn's said:
I DIDN'T know about Rep. Steven Lynch opposing it. Sicilian, did the late Joe Moakley oppose it as well?
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All South Boston elected leaders at the time, including City Councilor Kelly, Rep. Hart., Sen. Lynch, and Congressman Moakley, opposed the stadium. A surprisingly large majority of South Boston residents opposed the stadium. Union members were torn. A number of Southie residents had already been engaged through the mid-1990's in a planning effort of their own for development of Waterfront, with representatives sitting on what was called "The South Boston Waterfront Committee." I attended some of those meetings and they were fairly progressive and forward-thinking with respect to a dense development of the Waterfront. It's worth noting that this Waterfront planning committee was independent from the controversial committee that formed to assess "Linkage" benefits flowing from waterfront projects back to the community, later exposed in the Boston Globe.

Once the stadium was gone, the BRA stepped up the planning effort and the South Boston Waterfront Committee was absorbed along with many other groups that worked on the drafting of the Seaport Public Realm Plan, published in final form around year 2000.
 
Sicilian said:
All South Boston elected leaders at the time, including City Councilor Kelly, Rep. Hart., Sen. Lynch, and Congressman Moakley, opposed the stadium. A surprisingly large majority of South Boston residents opposed the stadium. Union members were torn. A number of Southie residents had already been engaged through the mid-1990's in a planning effort of their own for development of Waterfront, with representatives sitting on what was called "The South Boston Waterfront Committee." I attended some of those meetings and they were fairly progressive and forward-thinking with respect to a dense development of the Waterfront. It's worth noting that this Waterfront planning committee was independent from the controversial committee that formed to assess "Linkage" benefits flowing from waterfront projects back to the community, later exposed in the Boston Globe.

Once the stadium was gone, the BRA stepped up the planning effort and the South Boston Waterfront Committee was absorbed along with many other groups that worked on the drafting of the Seaport Public Realm Plan, published in final form around year 2000.
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Yeah, I suppose that I could see Hart, Lynch and even Flaherty (nee Mikey Flatts) opposing anything like that. I'm still just astonished at the NIMBYism in this city. But while you mentioned those facts, I forgot that I was reading some comments on the Fan Pier on Boston.com two years ago, and someone brought up the Stadium (and no it wasn't me, for the record), and one commenter (who was either a Southie Pol, or just a neighborhood activist) mentioned that at the time, the residents didn't see the need for the stadium, but then he added that when the Patriots won thre three Super Bowls in the 00's, he admitted that it was a missed opportunity and that commenters should cut the city leaders some slack for dropping the ball. Basically this commenter was like "Okay, we made a mistake. We didn't think that the stadium would bring value to the area. Now we see what it's doing in Foxboro."
 
albertmw said:
There's not a football stadium in DC.
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RFK, the former home of the redkins and nationals is still very active. Besides DC United, it hosts college and high school football games, and random concerts and rodeos and such.
 
http://bostonredevelopmentauthority.../heartland-robotics-expands-and-moves-to.html

Probably in the wrong thread...but this news is actually welcome.


But...


Suppose the robots take over the human jobs...Then the robots will be building the robots...This is a Frankenstein moment...Paging Mel Brooks!

Heartland Robotics, Inc. announced that it is relocating its corporate headquarters and product development efforts to the Fort Point Channel in Boston's Innovation District. The company recently announced that it raised $20 million in Series B financing and is now moving into an expansion phase which requires more office space.

Heartland is developing a new generation of robots to improve productivity in manufacturing environments. The robots will be intuitive to use, intelligent and highly flexible. They?ll be easy to buy, train, and deploy and will be unbelievably inexpensive.

Scott Eckert, the Company?s President and Chief Executive Officer said, ?We are moving forward aggressively in developing our products and expanding our team. In order to attract the world-class talent that we need, we wanted a terrific office space, in a vibrant part of the city, and easily accessible by public transportation.?

?The Innovation District is quickly becoming a model for the country for how to rebuild the economy around new and growing industries,? said Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino. ?Heartland Robotics is the type of groundbreaking company that will add to the vitality of the district and demonstrate how innovators and entrepreneurs in Boston are changing the world.?

Heartland?s new headquarters is the building known as Tower Point @ A Street, located at 27-43 Wormwood Street, Boston, MA 02210, a renovated late 19th century brick-and-beam building that is historically significant as one of the largest electrified manufacturing facilities in Boston when it was built. Heartland is moving 30 employees to the Innovation District and expects to expand to 50 employees by year end.
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^MMCrohns

Is it NIMBY to oppose the stadium in favor of something else? The NIMBY card gets played a lot here. Southie took a bad rap for Linkage, but the facts on the ground also are that the South Boston community rarely if ever opposed development on the Seaport in planning meetings. Southie residents were supportive of the BCEC and the planning of a densely zoned Waterfront district offering nearly 30 million square feet of commercial, residential development among other things.

Whether or not the property owners have yet to put a shovel in the ground has little to do with whether the stadium was a wise move. We're not talking about farmland in Kansas, we're talking about one of the few remaining waterfronts in the USA that is primed for some significant projects in the evolution of a new neighborhood. I'm not happy with where we've been but the Seaport largely remains a blank slate.

All said, I respect the opinion of those that wanted a stadium and understand the benefits, which I agree exist.
 
Personally, and there is things about Menino's planing I'm not crazy about (ie RKG), I'm starting to think Menino is comming off as pretty smart w/ the innovation district. He's been bringing in a few bright promising 21st century companies to a dead area. If even one of these companies really takes off, he'll be viewed as a genious for this one.
 
Heartland Robotics is being poached from Cambridge also (485 Mass Ave).
 
JohnAKeith said:
This thread is now a re-thread (retred). zzzzzzz.
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Forget the thread wait till you see the actual development for the entire Fan Pier project. boring, boring, boring (nothing cutting edge for archectiture and in the end....zzzzzzzzzzz....zzzzzzz... and why would we ever visit this area?
 
GW2500 said:
Personally, and there is things about Menino's planing I'm not crazy about (ie RKG), I'm starting to think Menino is comming off as pretty smart w/ the innovation district. He's been bringing in a few bright promising 21st century companies to a dead area. If even one of these companies really takes off, he'll be viewed as a genious for this one.
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"Innovation District" is nothing more than name and a PR campaign concocted by the Mayor's office. "Innovation District" is not conceived in any detail more than repetition of words like "communal office space" or "shared common area," nor does it facilitate the development of anything other than projects that would ordinarily develop under current market conditions if the BRA stepped out of the way. Proximity to downtown dictates that office space is the predominate use. Current market conditions favor rental housing over condo, and therefore rental housing is now recast as "Innovation District" housing, with "common areas" as a buzzword.

If the BRA had not placed a moratorium on new development in 1998 in order to begin the "Seaport Public Realm" planning process (which is now retired with the Innovation District), we would have seen progress on EXACTLY the same types of office/commercial projects that are moving forward today -- maybe at a faster pace. Office/commercial was favored at the time, but halted once the Seaport IPOD halted all development.

palindrome said:
Do the individual buildings require approval, or are they good to go as the whole plan was approved?
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Yes. Each building on Fan Pier must go through some level of approvals to ensure land use requirements are being met (for example groundfloor uses are regulated). Architecture goes through the Boston Civic Design Commission. From what I can tell much of these approvals are rubber-stamp - BCDC rarely does anything to ensure top notch architecture. Very rarely.
 
RFK stadium in DC was not a catalyst for anything. The same cannot be said for the Verizon Center in downtown DC, which has spearheaded the redevelopment of an entire neighborhood. But Verizon Center is akin to the Garden, not Gillette.

Gillette has space for nearly 17,000 cars. Where would one find similar space for that many cars in South Boston, and to be filled at most 12 times a year for football? (The low frequency use would make a garage a big money-loser.) The parking cap on spaces for all of South Boston is about 30,000, so I don't know how the cap and the need for thousands of new, additional spaces for a football stadium could be married together.
 
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