Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

[odurandina]

IMG_5768 by David Z, on Flickr

too bad they didn't sweep away the squat brutalist monstrosity (next to 1 Dalton)

to go with the original site prep.

 

[KentXie]

Man its beautiful to know no nimby can stop this now. Its coming and theres nothing anyone can do about it. Every floor is a growing middle finger to the opposition. Also just watching them pour this in place is a good watch knowing whats to come. We waited with this hole in the ground with what felt like forever and now its already shooting out of the ground. Bout time.

I don't know what you're talking about because there were barely any NIMBY opposition for this project. If you're going to lay blame, lay it in the correct spot.

 

[Rover]

I don't know what you're talking about because there were barely any NIMBY opposition for this project. If you're going to lay blame, lay it in the correct spot.

There was no NIMBY opposition because they had no plausible way to stop the project. As I said before, the site was NIIMBY proof. Shadows fall on church property, so if they don't have a problem with it that doesn't work. Plus it looks bad to try to extort a church for public amenities. Not to mention politicians who are usually at the beck and call of NIMBY groups are more reluctant to play hardball with a religion. Given all that, press hungry citizen groups slinked away even though they oppose everything taller than a tree.

 

[JeffDowntown]

too bad they didn't sweep away the squat brutalist monstrosity (next to 1 Dalton)

to go with the original site prep.

I have to really disagree with that sentiment. The Christian Science Plaza, and the three brutalist structures framing it, are one of the best examples of quality brutalist execution in the country. They create some amazing framing for the original Christian Science Mother Church. That is actually one of my favorite spaces in the city.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Man its beautiful to know no nimby can stop this now. Its coming and theres nothing anyone can do about it. Every floor is a growing middle finger to the opposition. Also just watching them pour this in place is a good watch knowing whats to come. We waited with this hole in the ground with what felt like forever and now its already shooting out of the ground. Bout time.

Were you having some of Grandad's medicine before you wrote this last night?

 

[odurandina]

As I said before, the site was NIIMBY proof. Shadows fall on church property, so if they don't have a problem with it that doesn't work. Plus it looks bad to try to extort a church for public amenities. Not to mention politicians who are usually at the beck and call of NIMBY groups are more reluctant to play hardball with a religion.

To attempt plausible deniability about shadow impacts by naming the Church of Christ Scientist as it's own self-deposed shadow martyr wouldn't that at least preclude the tower being located more toward the southern flank of the property, as opposed to it's actual location on the extreme north side?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...:0xbfe42acc732a964c!8m2!3d42.345!4d-71.084314

Given all that, press hungry citizen groups slinked away even though they oppose everything taller than a tree.

Ha!

 

[odurandina]

Man its beautiful to know no nimby can stop this now. Its coming and theres nothing anyone can do about it. Every floor is a growing middle finger to the opposition. Also just watching them pour this in place is a good watch knowing whats to come. We waited with this hole in the ground with what felt like forever and now its already shooting out of the ground. Bout time.

No, friend, we're not out of danger yet. This is Boston. And despite what anyone will have you believe about San Francisco, or LA, or anyplace; Boston is far and away, the craziest nimby hellhole in the world. There is an edict of silence coming straight from the top of the Boston.gov concerning any mention whatsoever about the building rising above its official height (wink) of 691'.....

We have some truly crazy, jackboot thug nimby's in this town, especially in maybe a one, one and a half mile radius of 1 Dalton. i wouldn't put it past anyone to file a lawsuit to stop construction.... It would seem Marty and the Building Dept also are keenly aware of this, and aren't taking any chances.

I have to really disagree with that sentiment. The Christian Science Plaza, and the three brutalist structures framing it, are one of the best examples of quality brutalist execution in the country. They create some amazing framing for the original Christian Science Mother Church. That is actually one of my favorite spaces in the city.

As everyone knows, developable land in these parts is scarce. Then, you know me. Not only do i have 0.000 compassion for brutalist architecture – i would bulldoze the entire site in a minute. Don't look back. i would be open to saving the fugly church thingy though. Like LBJ used to say after the intervention that ended the life of JFK, "You know; sometimes to get-along, you have to go-along."

 

[Kinopio]

If I was part of a neighborhood group or something I wouldn't go easier on a religious group in regards to affordable housing or similar things. They don't pay property taxes. They get things like police and fire department on the backs of taxpayers.

 

[dshoost88]

I attended at least two public meetings and the BRA Board Hearing for this project (IIRC, I think JohnAKeith was at the hearing also). At the first public meeting, the only group raising flags about the project was a union group for hotel workers (I think Boston's Local 26 union). A lot of them work at the Sheraton and Hilton Back Bay and were concerned about whether the incoming hotel would hire union. By the time of the BRA Board Hearing, some sort of agreement was struck between the parties... I think the union even spoke in favor of the CSC Master Plan at the hearing.

It's worth noting that Four Seasons was not on board as a partner at the time of approval (at least not publicly).

 

[KentXie]

There was no NIMBY opposition because they had no plausible way to stop the project. As I said before, the site was NIIMBY proof. Shadows fall on church property, so if they don't have a problem with it that doesn't work. Plus it looks bad to try to extort a church for public amenities. Not to mention politicians who are usually at the beck and call of NIMBY groups are more reluctant to play hardball with a religion. Given all that, press hungry citizen groups slinked away even though they oppose everything taller than a tree.

So you're telling me that NIMBYs are basically normal people who will only oppose if they have reasonable beef (for the most part in regards to this project) with the development.

Why even bring up NIMBYs if they didn't oppose this project then? Jesus Christ you guys are obsessed. Do you guys also blame NIMBYs when your car keys go missing?

 

[stick n move]

I was basing it more towards the fact that people dont know this is coming and theyre going to shit their pants when they see this pass the pru. My dad works on almost every new project in boston and he didnt know what the crane is for here. People are going to be shocked. I hardly ever talk about nimbys but people are in for a surprise when this thing keeps going.

 

[Hubman]

I was basing it more towards the fact that people dont know this is coming and theyre going to shit their pants when they see this pass the pru. My dad works on almost every new project in boston and he didnt know what the crane is for here. People are going to be shocked. I hardly ever talk about nimbys but people are in for a surprise when this thing keeps going.

Hooboy that is going to be sweet. I wonder if no one knows about it because the globe has been turning it's skyscraper press toward shadows at Winthrop Square, but not a lot about other projects.

 

[DZH22]

Its coming and theres nothing anyone can do about it.

Clearly you have never heard of the Waterview Tower in Chicago. This was a supertall that was put on hold after about 30 stories were poured, and then was eventually finished at about 60% of its original height, with a different design to boot.

If the economy falls off a cliff tomorrow and investors start pulling out, then we don't have this tower. I'm not ready to exhale just yet. You should know by now not to be overconfident when it comes to big towers in Boston. It's not a sure thing until it's DONE.

 

[Rover]

So you're telling me that NIMBYs are basically normal people who will only oppose if they have reasonable beef (for the most part in regards to this project) with the development.

Why even bring up NIMBYs if they didn't oppose this project then? Jesus Christ you guys are obsessed. Do you guys also blame NIMBYs when your car keys go missing?

No, I'm saying generally NIMBY's are scummy morons who sue projects to make up for a lack of companionship in their lives to get their names in the paper. This is aided of course by the lazy and talentless reporters of the Globe, who will frame every story as brave citizens standing up against blah blah blah.

However, NIMBY's have been playing the game for years and they know how it works.

So, the "faceless developers angle". Doesn't work against the Christian Scientists. Also that church is part of the fabric of the city as its their headquarters. Its not like suing the Moonies.

Getting free and favorable press from the Globe? Not going to happen in this case for the same reasons. Grandstanding politicians? Far easier villains to grandstand against.

So, faced with all this, what did NIMBY's do? Why, they kept quiet of course, instead of standing on their alleged principles. I'm sure this thing going up is killing squirrely Shirley K and the rest of the trolls, but they know how to pick and choose their battles. Its kinda like how they rarely went to the mat against a project Menino really wanted, or ignored the blatant violation that is the IMAX theatre even though by right that project should STILL be litigation.

NIMBY's are not normal people. They have no principles. But, they realize when opposition to a project will deny them the one thing they crave the most - positive press. Hence, why this project has sailed through despite being the tallest building constructed since the early 70's.

 

[odurandina]

No, I'm saying generally NIMBY's are scummy morons who sue projects to make up for a lack of companionship in their lives to get their names in the paper. This is aided of course by the lazy and talentless reporters of the Globe, who will frame every story as brave citizens standing up against blah blah blah.

However, NIMBY's have been playing the game for years and they know how it works.

So, the "faceless developers angle". Doesn't work against the Christian Scientists. Also that church is part of the fabric of the city as its their headquarters. Its not like suing the Moonies.

Getting free and favorable press from the Globe? Not going to happen in this case for the same reasons. Grandstanding politicians? Far easier villains to grandstand against.

So, faced with all this, what did NIMBY's do? Why, they kept quiet of course, instead of standing on their alleged principles. I'm sure this thing going up is killing squirrely Shirley K and the rest of the trolls, but they know how to pick and choose their battles. Its kinda like how they rarely went to the mat against a project Menino really wanted, or ignored the blatant violation that is the IMAX theatre even though by right that project should STILL be litigation.

NIMBY's are not normal people. They have no principles. But, they realize when opposition to a project will deny them the one thing they crave the most - positive press. Hence, why this project has sailed through despite being the tallest building constructed since the early 70's.

fantastic post. thank you.

Clearly you have never heard of the Waterview Tower in Chicago. This was a supertall that was put on hold after about 30 stories were poured, and then was eventually finished at about 60% of its original height, with a different design to boot.

wow!

If the economy falls off a cliff tomorrow and investors start pulling out, then we don't have this tower. I'm not ready to exhale just yet. You should know by now not to be overconfident when it comes to big towers in Boston. It's not a sure thing until it's DONE.

^^or topped anyway.

Why even bring up NIMBYs if they didn't oppose this project then? Jesus Christ you guys are obsessed.

Copley Square Tower, Columbus Center, Fenway Center and the Garden Garage, and possibly, TD Garden Residential tower would be either up or under-construction.

Were it not for the nimby's. There is also a huge fight coming over Winthrop Square, Parcel 15, Harbor Garage, 1 Bromfield, 150 Seaport, 45 Worthington, The Huntiontond, Bunker Hill and Allston Yards housing projects and possibly, even 2 Charlesgate West and Back Bay Station.

We lost 150' off TD Garden. 120 feet off 1 Congress, 60 feet off the Garden Garage, 90' off two towers at Tremont Crossing, and so on, and so on.

Yes, the boogieman is real.

 

[stefal]

To be clear, NIMBYs aren't only anti-height. We need some moderate resistance to get better designs and public investment from developers, otherwise we'd have a lifeless, cold, boring Boston. 1 Bromfield was a mess at ground level in the original design.

A little back on track with 1 Dalton: can't wait to see this shoot up. Such a simple but elegant design...perfect for Boston

 

[Hubman]

Clearly you have never heard of the Waterview Tower in Chicago. This was a supertall that was put on hold after about 30 stories were poured, and then was eventually finished at about 60% of its original height, with a different design to boot.

Sears/Willis Tower In Chicago, (once tallest in the world), was halted at 67 stories because of a lawsuit about TV transmission problems, but Sears won the lawsuit and continued to build it to a full 108 floors.

 

[Rover]

To be clear, NIMBYs aren't only anti-height. We need some moderate resistance to get better designs and public investment from developers, otherwise we'd have a lifeless, cold, boring Boston. 1 Bromfield was a mess at ground level in the original design.

A little back on track with 1 Dalton: can't wait to see this shoot up. Such a simple but elegant design...perfect for Boston

A few of them probably have the public's best interests at heart. Unfortunately for the vast majority its all about power and has nothing to do with what's good for the city. The problem is any time a project is needlessly delayed 10 years in order to chop 5 stories off of the original proposal, the city is pissing away all that potential tax revenue. Now add that up amongst a dozen projects and how much money is lost? Hundreds of millions? Maybe more? That opportunity cost analysis is what tends to get lost in all of this - money that could be used on anything from parks to police to schools to transportation.

 

[Hubman]

A few of them probably have the public's best interests at heart. Unfortunately for the vast majority its all about power and has nothing to do with what's good for the city. The problem is any time a project is needlessly delayed 10 years in order to chop 5 stories off of the original proposal, the city is pissing away all that potential tax revenue. Now add that up amongst a dozen projects and how much money is lost? Hundreds of millions? Maybe more? That opportunity cost analysis is what tends to get lost in all of this - money that could be used on anything from parks to police to schools to transportation.

Very good point. Why don't you attend some of the BRA meetings and voice those opinions?

 

[Hubman]

People over-villafy NIMBYs. Not all of them are bad people. Some are just misguided or scared. And it's not OK to make sweeping generalazations that all of them are assholes who should go to hell.