Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

in other news, they are really way behind in updating 1daltonconstruction.com
 
statler said:
What are basing this on?
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NIMBY's exist to 1) block or delay projects, 2) get their names in the paper for doing so, 3) extorting developers often for their own pet projects. They went 0for 3 on this one, with the added problem of it being the tallest building constructed in decades, and the petty trolls that make up the average NIMBY organization dislike this building. This article is a good example of that as well as the positive remarks you see from the usual idiots in the comments section.
 
You did not answer his question about an underlying cause/basis. You just spouted out some stereotypical behaviors. That's like saying that someone is an asshole because they are an asshole.

NIMBYs usually act out of self-interest with regard to their property value, and/or quality of life or amenities associated with their property that they think a particular development is going to take away from them. For instance, the "friends of the public garden" are perhaps better defined as the "friends of the thing that makes my brownstone worth more, both to me and to the market."

Whose property value or quality of life was 1 Dalton actually affecting? No one's, basically. Hence the no NIMBY resistance.
 
It's a weird affection that I see in other fandoms as well. "I like X more than most so I will defend X against all enemies, real or imagined!"
 
bigpicture7 said:
You did not answer his question about an underlying cause/basis. You just spouted out some stereotypical behaviors. That's like saying that someone is an asshole because they are an asshole.

NIMBYs usually act out of self-interest with regard to their property value, and/or quality of life or amenities associated with their property that they think a particular development is going to take away from them. For instance, the "friends of the public garden" are perhaps better defined as the "friends of the thing that makes my brownstone worth more, both to me and to the market."

Whose property value or quality of life was 1 Dalton actually affecting? No one's, basically. Hence the no NIMBY resistance.
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You're making a major mistake here, which is assuming that NIMBY's base their opposition on logic even if that logic is self-interest. This, from my observations, is incorrect for the professional NIMBY class in Boston. Do you really think Shirley Kressel is out opposing every project out of some real self interest? Or is she doing it because she's a loon with nothing else going on in her life? Harbor Towers people - sure, but they're only complaining about a project next door to them, not suing developers all over the city.

So back to your point. NIMBY's are assholes. That's how they express their assholeness. Maybe they believe their own bullshit and maybe they don't but the proof of them opposing this project is the very article in the largest newspaper in New England opposing it even though the guy's logic is absurd and there's no self-interest in it for him except for getting his name in the paper.
 
Rover said:
You're making a major mistake here, which is assuming that NIMBY's base their opposition on logic even if that logic is self-interest. This, from my observations, is incorrect for the professional NIMBY class in Boston. Do you really think Shirley Kressel is out opposing every project out of some real self interest? Or is she doing it because she's a loon with nothing else going on in her life? Harbor Towers people - sure, but they're only complaining about a project next door to them, not suing developers all over the city.

So back to your point. NIMBY's are assholes. That's how they express their assholeness. Maybe they believe their own bullshit and maybe they don't but the proof of them opposing this project is the very article in the largest newspaper in New England opposing it even though the guy's logic is absurd and there's no self-interest in it for him except for getting his name in the paper.
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Did Kressel launch a campaign against 1 Dalton?
 
statler said:
It's a weird affection that I see in other fandoms as well. "I like X more than most so I will defend X against all enemies, real or imagined!"
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Most liberals are statists. The worship of the State, and its purpose to define life for all.

All community activists are statists. They revel in being worshiped as watchers and saviors of the community.

All statists are authoritarians. The power of a few to rule over all.

Show me a statist and i'll show you a nice authoritarian hiding in his closet.

Some statists are nimby's.

All nimby's are statist assholes.
 
Rover said:
So back to your point. NIMBY's are assholes.
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i think you're painting with a way over-wise brush here.

i mean, hell -- some bostonians are racists (maybe more than i'd like to admit), but are ALL? are as many as the national perception? i don't think so.

some NIMBY's are certainly loons and assholes and act in the manners you've outlined, but some just have a legitimately different POV from you, me, probably most (although i doubt ALL) folks on here, depending on the project.

i know a very nice woman based in brighton who is not in any way like shirley, doesn't oppose everything just for the sake of opposing it, or even for some desire to maintain her own property's value (in fact, some of the local developments she's been wary of have no doubt increased the value of her condo).

by the same token, some of the friends of the friends of the public garden may be out-of-touch, self-centered "assholes," but some are just like the groups in NYC who are beginning to be concerned about shadows on central park. the public garden is a valuable asset to the city and they're (in their mind, anyway -- some of them) being good and conscientious citizens of boston to make sure it's protected.

it's a shame there were no powerful "friends of the west end" way back when.

don't get me wrong -- i'm, generally speaking, pretty pro-development and even pro-height, but the generalizations you're using to describe EVERY single NIMBY is no more just or reasonable than some of the dubmityass generalizations some of them make about people and groups trying to build in boston.
 
Rover said:
Don't know, but Chuck Collins sure is against it.
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Did you read the article? Sure, he makes all kinds of erroneous arguments...but his rants aren't against 1 Dalton's geometry any more than they are against some landscraper's geometry. He specifically wants to tax its condo owners more. That has nothing to do with shadows on the common or otherwise.
 
And to chrisbrat's point, I did also mention quality of life along with property value. People make guesses about what affects QoL, which in and of itself is a subjective, varying thing, no doubt.
 
odurandina said:
All nimby's are statist assholes.
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Really? So a conservative condo owner is never going to be a NIMBY if some project going up next door is going to reduce his property value?

A good indication of someone being wrong is when they speak in absolutes..."all ___ are ____"
 
just tryin to keep the conversation lively.

When talkin' about nimby's i tend to get lippy.

btw i'm posting from Grand Canyon Station on Rt 66 in Williams AZ at 6,766 ft above the sea. :)

bigpicture7 said:
if some project going up next door is going to reduce his property value at 1 Dalton?
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emphasis mine

There is room for a big highrise on the Sheraton property on the Pru side of the parcel [after you take a scalpel to part of the east wing of the North Tower], and yet another very tall high a/r tower on the southeast corner of the Hynes site.

Get ready for war.
 
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bigpicture7 said:
Did you read the article? Sure, he makes all kinds of erroneous arguments...but his rants aren't against 1 Dalton's geometry any more than they are against some landscraper's geometry. He specifically wants to tax its condo owners more. That has nothing to do with shadows on the common or otherwise.
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Word for word. He's stretching to find a reason to oppose it. If his big problem was empty dwellings of the rich, he'd include all those beach houses on the Cape and Islands in his little rant.

chris, I'm more talking about professional NIMBY's of which the city has far too many. I may disagree with some of the Friends of Public Garden for example but I don't see them protesting buildings that don't affect the Public Garden. I also may think the Harbor Towers people are self serving in their opposition to the garage development, but again to my knowledge they're confining their opposition this one project. If your friend in Brighton is concerned about her neighborhood I get it. Usually these aren't the people running to court all over the city.
 
Rover said:
He's stretching to find a reason to oppose it. If his big problem was empty dwellings of the rich, he'd include all those beach houses on the Cape and Islands in his little rant.
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You're the long lost cousin who went away to study and brought home some nimby Kryptonite.
 
odurandina said:
Get ready for war.
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So is any developer actually interested in doing this? Do you have real intel on this? Otherwise, come on man...

(btw, you didn't just change the emphasis in my quote, you actually changed the contents of my quote. *sigh*)

Not to mention, this is the point in the afternoon where I walk away from aB hating myself for contributing to a complete trainwreck of a thread derailment. To the community: I am sorry.
 
not bad when you consider we were badly overdue for a good thread derail.

imagine if Ned were still around.
 
My point was simply that NIMBY's who are vocally opposed to this project consist of:

A) Cranks in the Globe comment section who are also opposed to the color blue, the number 7 and Tuesdays.

B) Figments of Rover's and Oduradina's fertile imaginations.
 
It's false that all NIMBY complaints are crazy. Some of them are legit concerns.

My guess, maybe St. Germain and Clearway have a high percentage of renters. The majority of renters don't care about new developments and wealthy landlords are often too busy to fight it. That's really the only two streets where I would expect NIMBY opposition. The rest of the surrounding area is hotels, commercial buildings, etc.

But it's not blocking anyone's view. Blocked views are where NIMBYS fight hard, everything else you only get limited opposition for the most part (as long as it's a good project). Look at the Harbor Garage, residents are fighting that hard because they don't want to lose their easy parking and their views. People are self centered.

I mean for this project it would be a legit concern that the previously quiet streets of St. Germain and Clearway will now get busier. Surprised there was zero opposition. Also owners might theorize that a shiny tower for the 1% will actually increase property values for surrounding property.
 
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