Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

Blackbird said:
This would be Boston Plateau Part 3: Back Bay.

Hey, it wouldn't be awful if Boston had a "high spine" filled with 750ft skyscrapers! ;)
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Add in the Back Bay Station Tower and you might actually get your wish!
 
Rick said:
They look to be a similar height in this render from the
Carpenter & Co. website.

Ee89XNI.jpg
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It does looks close, although I think the last few feet are just from the angle of the shot. Sort of a less obvious effect of the Pru looking taller than the Hancock in that same picture.

I'm sure there will be a newer set of renders eventually that puts it into a clearer perspective. My current guess would be 735'-740'. Substantial. It's going to look pretty weird from a distance, having "twin" Pru's!
 
jpdibenedetto said:
I love this render. I think my favorite thing is a 700' tower and a few hundred feet down the road Berkley Dorm tower which was chopped to 200" because of Nimbys. LOL. I wonder where the EXACT height cut off is...
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Only in Boston can you have a 700' down the street casting shadows on your neighbors home, but if it is on your home, OHH NO...not happening. Lol.
 
pel_north said:
Only in Boston can you have a 700' down the street casting shadows on your neighbors home, but if it is on your home, OHH NO...not happening. Lol.
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Im sure this isn't only in Boston. we cater to them more but NIMBYs exist everywhere.
 
I thought Berkley scaled back the size of their dorm project due to $/economy and not neighborhood opposition.....
 
BosDevelop said:
I thought Berkley scaled back the size of their dorm project due to $/economy and not neighborhood opposition.....
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Perhaps the poster was thinking of the Grandmarc. Of course, if we were going to get the same horrible quality, just twice as tall, then we probably dodged a bullet on that one.
 
The Church Realty Trust, which administers property for the First Church of Christ Scientist, dictated in a deed conveying a parcel at 30 Dalton St. to developers that the land was subject to long-term use restrictions that reflect Christian Science teaching around alcohol sales, pornography and, to a limited extent, medical practices.
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The restrictions govern lower-floor activities and any hotel built there. Residents of apartments in a luxury tower set to be built at the site will be able to act without restriction. Nonetheless, the restrictions could make things complicated.

For example, should a hotel be erected there, pornography is okay on in-room televisions only as long as it's "of the type normally offered in five star (or comparable rating) luxury hotels in Boston, Massachusetts or New York City, New York," the deed states. But don't expect to find adult entertainment, a liquor store or a bar at ground level; those uses are expressly ruled out.
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http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/real_estate/2014/10/christian-science-parcel-sells-with-strings.html?page=all
 
Seems to imply there'd be no bar only if it's not, "of the type normally offered in five star (or comparable rating) luxury hotels in Boston, Massachusetts or New York City, New York." So basically, yes, there will be a bar.
 
don't expect to find adult entertainment, a liquor store or a bar at ground level; those uses are expressly ruled out.
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"It would look really odd to suddenly have a bar opening right on our property,"
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These were the parts that I keyed on. It seems clear, but also nutty. Maybe there can be a bar that is not on the ground floor and only accessible from inside the lobby?
 
underground said:
Seems to imply there'd be no bar only if it's not, "of the type normally offered in five star (or comparable rating) luxury hotels in Boston, Massachusetts or New York City, New York." So basically, yes, there will be a bar.
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But if there is separate retail space, no bar allowed.
 
They could probably also just have the bar and restaurant integrated together more closely than most hotels. It seems like the CS just doesn't want a club opening in the middle of their little oasis there, which seems appropriate.

This made me laugh:
Lawrence DiCara said:
"It's not common, but it does occur," he said. "The Catholic church, when it sells church property, places significant restrictions on the sale. You can not, for example, have Planned Parenthood in what was a Catholic school."
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True story about some Christian Scientist relatives of mine:
My aunt and uncle came in from out of town to see the mother church. They stayed at the Colonnade and had the whole family over for dinner. After desert, my aunt proceeds to fall out of her chair. Waitress comes over saying, "oh shoot. She's a Christian Scientist, isn't she? There's booze in the desert. This happens all the time." So evidently Christian Scientists accidentally get drunk at the Colonnade on a fairly regular basis.
 
Procrastinating on other work so I decided to pull the deed. On alcohol/bar, here are the specific restrictions:

1. The following uses (referred to in this Deed as Prohibited Uses) shall be prohibited:

(i) the sale, display, manufacture or distribution of alcohol, except that alcohol may be displayed, sold or served as part of the operation of a restaurant or incidental to the operation of a hotel (specifically including room service, so-called in-room mini-bars, and events in hotel ballrooms or meeting rooms), provided that

(x) during any hours of operation in which alcohol is served, prepared hot and cold food (i.e., food from a menu not limited to "off-the-shelf' snacks) is also available in the same general location where the alcohol is served,

(y) the sale or service of alcohol shall be for onsite consumption only (for the avoidance of doubt, it being agreed that under no circumstances shall a store selling pre-packaged or unopened containers of alcohol be permitted), and

(z) if the sale or service of alcohol occurs on the ground level of any building up to an elevation of fifteen (15) feet, it shall be limited to the interior of such building;

TLDR version: Restaurant can serve booze, does not look like it will have a patio.
 
NSW, thanks for providing the actual language. Somewhat different than the synopsis by the biz journal reporter.
 
Next Stop Wonderland said:
Procrastinating on other work so I decided to pull the deed. On alcohol/bar, here are the specific restrictions:

1. The following uses (referred to in this Deed as Prohibited Uses) shall be prohibited:

(i) the sale, display, manufacture or distribution of alcohol, except that alcohol may be displayed, sold or served as part of the operation of a restaurant or incidental to the operation of a hotel (specifically including room service, so-called in-room mini-bars, and events in hotel ballrooms or meeting rooms), provided that

(x) during any hours of operation in which alcohol is served, prepared hot and cold food (i.e., food from a menu not limited to "off-the-shelf' snacks) is also available in the same general location where the alcohol is served,

(y) the sale or service of alcohol shall be for onsite consumption only (for the avoidance of doubt, it being agreed that under no circumstances shall a store selling pre-packaged or unopened containers of alcohol be permitted), and

(z) if the sale or service of alcohol occurs on the ground level of any building up to an elevation of fifteen (15) feet, it shall be limited to the interior of such building;

TLDR version: Restaurant can serve booze, does not look like it will have a patio.
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Second-floor patio? Shouldn't be hard to come up with something 15ft off the ground.
 
FenwayResident said:
Second-floor patio? Shouldn't be hard to come up with something 15ft off the ground.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Just no ground floor patio serving liquor. Many hotels have bars/restaurants that are not on the ground level.
 
Yeah doesn't seem unreasonable given the area and the actual deed language. I think that they just want to avoid "BOSTON'S HOTTEST NIGHTCLUB IS ONE DALTON..."
 
I don't think there is room for am outdoor patio at the Four Seasons. Given the postage-stamp site, would be economically ridiculous if there were.
 
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