Franklin Park - White Stadium Renovation

#bancars said:
Emerald Necklace Conservatory Conservancy has filed a lawsuit to pause this project:

www.bostonglobe.com

Local environmental nonprofit, residents sue to halt White Stadium development plan - The Boston Globe

It’s the first lawsuit the Emerald Necklace Conservancy has filed in its about 25-year history — an action its leadership took reluctantly, but very seriously, they said.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
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This throws me off a little: why is the Conservancy cool with people paying admission to use the William J. Devine Golf Course & Zoo at Franklin Park 365 days a year, but litigating over a women's soccer team renovating White Stadium at Franklin Park and leasing the space 20 days a year?
 
dshoost88 said:
This throws me off a little: why is the Conservancy cool with people paying admission to use the William J. Devine Golf Course & Zoo at Franklin Park 365 days a year, but litigating over a women's soccer team renovating White Stadium at Franklin Park and leasing the space 20 days a year?
Click to expand...
They would also have it reserved for practice sessions, which will be a much more significant amount of total time than the games, but I agree this issue seems to be getting massively overblown because high school football specifically is the one clear "loser" in this arrangement. As a former track athlete it's been really annoying to see high school athletes used as the "think about the children"! prop here while high school soccer and track athletes stand to be massive winners from the deal. I think the media has done a terrible job of making this clear, choosing instead to focus on the plight of football athletes. As the article states, the amount of hours BPS student athletes and the public will be able to use the facility triples.
 
dshoost88 said:
This throws me off a little: why is the Conservancy cool with people paying admission to use the William J. Devine Golf Course & Zoo at Franklin Park 365 days a year, but litigating over a women's soccer team renovating White Stadium at Franklin Park and leasing the space 20 days a year?
Click to expand...
I'm not siding with the Conservancy here, but there are a few differences:
  • This deal will give exclusive space in the park to a private, for-profit sports team. That would be some team facilities in the rebuilt stadium, plus offices and broadcasting space, I think. That's different from the zoo and golf course. The zoo is run by a non-profit for the benefit of the public. The golf course is a public golf course run by the city.
  • I don't actually know if the Conservancy is cool with the zoo or golf course, but either way, they can't do much about those. A difference here is they can (maybe) block further encroachment on a public park.
  • The White Stadium is also legally different because it came out of George Robert White Fund, which sets limits on how the site can be used. George White's will specifically says that projects built out of his trust must be maintained by the city, and can't be combined with other sources of money. (That's according to the Conservancy. I couldn't say if they're reading the will correctly.) The Globe article is fuzzy on that, but the lawsuit is clear.
    1708621533594.png
Again, I'm not siding the Conservancy. Those are the differences, though.
 
dshoost88 said:
This throws me off a little: why is the Conservancy cool with people paying admission to use the William J. Devine Golf Course & Zoo at Franklin Park 365 days a year, but litigating over a women's soccer team renovating White Stadium at Franklin Park and leasing the space 20 days a year?
Click to expand...

Answer: The golf course isn't blocking Boston high school players during their season from using it. And the NWSL team would be blocking HS football usage from March through October. No problem if it were a hockey rink though.

Look, there is only one reason why Linda Pizutti (John Henry's wife) is deciding this stupid idea of throwing money into White Stadium in the middle of Franklin Park - - instead of merely sharing the world-class, river waterfront, entertainment district stadium that Kraft is about to build next to the Encore (which would bring in far larger crowds and revenue for the new NWSL team than in a hard to reach corner of Franklin Park)- - - - the Red Sox owner's rivalry vs Kraft/Patriots.

It's wasteful and bad for Massachusetts.

The clear COMMON GOOD here is for Pizutti to put down her ego and work with Kraft to create a world class district on the Mystic Waterfront and for Wu to spend 1/3 less (~$17 million instead of the proposed $50 million from the city) to adequately renovate White Stadium into a great high school level stadium.

But that would make too much sense.

.
 
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dshoost88 said:
This throws me off a little: why is the Conservancy cool with people paying admission to use the William J. Devine Golf Course & Zoo at Franklin Park 365 days a year, but litigating over a women's soccer team renovating White Stadium at Franklin Park and leasing the space 20 days a year?
Click to expand...
I think the concern is 1) hosting major events and the influx of people into an area with zero infrastructure to get them there or park and 2) the lack of transparent process or community / stakeholder involvement for something that is a pretty major decision. Both of these points were summed up nicely in Adrian Walker’s editorial in the Globe recently: he notes how while Wu has railed against centralized decisions that shut out community process, this process has been completely rushed and has not involved the voices of anyone in the neighborhood who will be impacted. He’s not wrong. And I don’t think pointing to existing enterprises in the park that are less than ideal in the way they operate (like the zoo which charges money, or the golf course) is a great justification for replicating something else that is also imperfect.

To me, the plan smacks of carpetbaggery, to be perfectly honest: as Walker notes, Franklin Park is the Boston Common for people who live nowhere near the common. And it’s been subjected to decades of disinvestment at least partly due to being situated and surrounded largely by poor, minority-majority neighborhoods. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who actually live here to demand that any significant new plans or proposals ought to have a lot of input from the local stakeholders. Does the National Women’s Soccer League have a major footprint in Roxbury, Mattapan, or JP? Or is this just a convenient opportunity for outsiders, well-intentioned tho they may be, to swoop in and utilize something that’s up for grabs? The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, necessarily, but stakeholders should be involved before giving away a contract of this nature.

Here’s Walker’s article:
www.bostonglobe.com

Plans to turn White Stadium into a soccer palace has sparked a huge controversy â and a lawsuit - The Boston Globe

The Emerald Necklace Conservancy is hopping mad — and raising valid concerns — about the city’s plans to transform White Stadium, in Franklin Park, into the new home of Boston’s expansion women’s professional soccer team.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
 
dshoost88 said:
This throws me off a little: why is the Conservancy cool with people paying admission to use the William J. Devine Golf Course & Zoo at Franklin Park 365 days a year, but litigating over a women's soccer team renovating White Stadium at Franklin Park and leasing the space 20 days a year?
Click to expand...
Good points. Sidebar: I feel bad for Wu here and I never thought that I’d be on her side. However, she got out-NIMBY’ed here. Which is sad. Because this stadium proposal is in absolute good faith and if anyone wants to ask what I think about the Emerald Necklace Conservancy, feel free to send me a PM.
 
FK4 said:
I think the concern is 1) hosting major events and the influx of people into an area with zero infrastructure to get them there or park
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I saw this in the editorial, too, but that's not correct. They have a transportation plan laid out in the latest proposal document. This is near the Orange Line and a whole bunch of busses. Some people will do that and walk. They'll have no new car parking at the stadium, but there will be satellite parking sites. And they'll have a fleet of game-day shuttles to take people to/from parking, Orange Line, and commuter rail. I'm a layman for this, but the plan looks reasonable, I think.
 
ritchiew said:
I saw this in the editorial, too, but that's not correct. They have a transportation plan laid out in the latest proposal document. This is near the Orange Line and a whole bunch of busses. Some people will do that and walk. They'll have no new car parking at the stadium, but there will be satellite parking sites. And they'll have a fleet of game-day shuttles to take people to/from parking, Orange Line, and commuter rail. I'm a layman for this, but the plan looks reasonable, I think.
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But, might not be reasonable to people who live there. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be alarmed at the prospect of dozens of buses clogging Walnut Ave.
 
ritchiew said:
I'm not siding with the Conservancy here, but there are a few differences:
  • This deal will give exclusive space in the park to a private, for-profit sports team. That would be some team facilities in the rebuilt stadium, plus offices and broadcasting space, I think. That's different from the zoo and golf course. The zoo is run by a non-profit for the benefit of the public. The golf course is a public golf course run by the city.
  • I don't actually know if the Conservancy is cool with the zoo or golf course, but either way, they can't do much about those. A difference here is they can (maybe) block further encroachment on a public park.
  • The White Stadium is also legally different because it came out of George Robert White Fund, which sets limits on how the site can be used. George White's will specifically says that projects built out of his trust must be maintained by the city, and can't be combined with other sources of money. (That's according to the Conservancy. I couldn't say if they're reading the will correctly.) The Globe article is fuzzy on that, but the lawsuit is clear.View attachment 47853
Again, I'm not siding the Conservancy. Those are the differences, though.
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I looked at the membership of the Conservancy Board. The chair is the former publisher of the Globe. Ted Landsmark is the Vice Chair. He is former President of Boston Architectural College, and now at Northeastern. The treasurer is a prominent Boston lawyer associated with a very prominent law firm. Plus a former governor, and even a member of the Red Sox organization.

Not a board to be trifled with.
 
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KCasiglio said:
They would also have it reserved for practice sessions, which will be a much more significant amount of total time than the games, but I agree this issue seems to be getting massively overblown because high school football specifically is the one clear "loser" in this arrangement. As a former track athlete it's been really annoying to see high school athletes used as the "think about the children"! prop here while high school soccer and track athletes stand to be massive winners from the deal. I think the media has done a terrible job of making this clear, choosing instead to focus on the plight of football athletes. As the article states, the amount of hours BPS student athletes and the public will be able to use the facility triples.
Click to expand...
And as somebody who played football in highschool, I completely agree with you that it unreasonably overshadows the other student athletes who are far more numerous. I think there are about 350 highschool football players in BPS programs. There are thousands of other athletes who will benefit from this investment. I say build it, there are other fields that can be used for the football programs.
shmessy said:
Look, there is only one reason why Linda Pizutti (John Henry's wife) is deciding this stupid idea of throwing money into White Stadium in the middle of Franklin Park - - instead of merely sharing the world-class, river waterfront, entertainment district stadium that Kraft is about to build next to the Encore (which would bring in far larger crowds and revenue for the new NWSL team than in a hard to reach corner of Franklin Park)- - - - the Red Sox owner's rivalry vs Kraft/Patriots.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure the Mystic River suggestion works, for one definite reason, and one likely reason:
  1. It won't be ready in time for the NWSL team, which will need a viable venue in just two years from now.
  2. I'd like to think this isn't true, but realistically, they are not going to draw the kind of crowds MLS teams do. A stadium that is the right size for the Revolution is much too large for a women's team.
[Edit to add]
I strongly favor this project in part because it will give the NWSL team its own identity, not in the shadow of the Revolution, and in part because I think it will attract a whole new group of people to Franklin Park who maybe have never been there, and have no idea what a great place it is. Maybe then, we can finally push for better funding and upgrades of the public serving features.
 
FK4 said:
I think the concern is 1) hosting major events and the influx of people into an area with zero infrastructure to get them there or park and 2) the lack of transparent process or community / stakeholder involvement for something that is a pretty major decision. Both of these points were summed up nicely in Adrian Walker’s editorial in the Globe recently: he notes how while Wu has railed against centralized decisions that shut out community process, this process has been completely rushed and has not involved the voices of anyone in the neighborhood who will be impacted. He’s not wrong. And I don’t think pointing to existing enterprises in the park that are less than ideal in the way they operate (like the zoo which charges money, or the golf course) is a great justification for replicating something else that is also imperfect.

To me, the plan smacks of carpetbaggery, to be perfectly honest: as Walker notes, Franklin Park is the Boston Common for people who live nowhere near the common. And it’s been subjected to decades of disinvestment at least partly due to being situated and surrounded largely by poor, minority-majority neighborhoods. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who actually live here to demand that any significant new plans or proposals ought to have a lot of input from the local stakeholders. Does the National Women’s Soccer League have a major footprint in Roxbury, Mattapan, or JP? Or is this just a convenient opportunity for outsiders, well-intentioned tho they may be, to swoop in and utilize something that’s up for grabs? The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, necessarily, but stakeholders should be involved before giving away a contract of this nature.

Here’s Walker’s article:
www.bostonglobe.com

Plans to turn White Stadium into a soccer palace has sparked a huge controversy â and a lawsuit - The Boston Globe

The Emerald Necklace Conservancy is hopping mad — and raising valid concerns — about the city’s plans to transform White Stadium, in Franklin Park, into the new home of Boston’s expansion women’s professional soccer team.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
Click to expand...
I agree with your assessment. I'm not surprised that Wu is just like every other mayor in the history of mayors--she was got to.

I'm very opposed to public funds subsidizing professional sports teams. If this was a project to renovate the stadium for the BPS I'd be in support of it. But it is pushing city money to a private, for profit business. It also doesn't make sense from a planning POV--there is very little transportation here and as much a shuttle buses are a great idea, it's hard to see how this proposal doesn't have a huge negative impact on the neighborhood.

In a dream world, we would have a stadium on Columbia Point. The red line would have to work (ha) but it is an area in Boston with lots of space near transportation.
 
FK4 said:
But, might not be reasonable to people who live there. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be alarmed at the prospect of dozens of buses clogging Walnut Ave.
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In meetings and interviews, residents' concern was they didn't want thousands of cars coming into the neighborhood. They didn't want drivers taking up neighborhood parking spots or parking where they're not supposed to. And they didn't want the all-day traffic jam that number of cars would likely cause. The solution was to swap thousands of cars for dozens of busses. That was the compromise, and I haven't heard anyone taking issue with that.

If people do take issue with that, I wouldn't consider that reasonable. I mean, sure, work with residents if there's any easy things to do to make it nicer. But dozens of busses passing by (right in their "backyard," so to speak) is not a big deal. If that level of inconvenience can be enough to derail a project like this, then we, as a region, are sunk.

And regardless, the original claim was there is no transportation infrastructure or plan to get people to and from the stadium. There is. It's walking distance from the Orange Line and a bunch of busses. That can be improved with game-day shuttles. The stadium has been there over 70 years. Since the 1940s it's been possible to bring in ~11,000 people for game days.
 
There is in fact BRT infrastructure that numerous busses use between Blue Hill Ave + Seaver and Jackson Sq, to be extended to Ruggles. Runs right be the Franklin Park entrances. Arguably great mass transit here.
 
curcuas said:
There is in fact BRT infrastructure that numerous busses use between Blue Hill Ave + Seaver and Jackson Sq, to be extended to Ruggles. Runs right be the Franklin Park entrances. Arguably great mass transit here.
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Well clearly the city should demonstrate that they’re listening to the concerns of the residents by extending center running bus lane down Seaver St
 
KCasiglio said:
Well clearly the city should demonstrate that they’re listening to the concerns of the residents by extending center running bus lane down Seaver St
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I believe that is part of the bus lanes on BHA plan that is inching towards construction.
 
ritchiew said:
In meetings and interviews, residents' concern was they didn't want thousands of cars coming into the neighborhood. They didn't want drivers taking up neighborhood parking spots or parking where they're not supposed to. And they didn't want the all-day traffic jam that number of cars would likely cause. The solution was to swap thousands of cars for dozens of busses. That was the compromise, and I haven't heard anyone taking issue with that.

If people do take issue with that, I wouldn't consider that reasonable. I mean, sure, work with residents if there's any easy things to do to make it nicer. But dozens of busses passing by (right in their "backyard," so to speak) is not a big deal. If that level of inconvenience can be enough to derail a project like this, then we, as a region, are sunk.

And regardless, the original claim was there is no transportation infrastructure or plan to get people to and from the stadium. There is. It's walking distance from the Orange Line and a bunch of busses. That can be improved with game-day shuttles. The stadium has been there over 70 years. Since the 1940s it's been possible to bring in ~11,000 people for game days.
Click to expand...

I live near Franklin Park. I go there often. I was there this weekend, for instance. I don't buy that suburbanites are going to park near Mass and Cass to get on a shuttle to get to Franklin Park. I think a lot of them are going to drive to the stadium because they live in a suburban world where they always drive everywhere. They will be bringing tons of noise and pollution with them while they circle the neighborhood looking for parking. And then they will be bringing noise to the park. I and others go to the park for peace and quiet, not to hear "We Will Rock You" blasting from stadium speakers. Then there is the issue of the team taking over space outside of the stadium and cutting down trees.
 
KCasiglio said:
Well clearly the city should demonstrate that they’re listening to the concerns of the residents by extending center running bus lane down Seaver St
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only most of the residents that speak at these meetings do not like the BRT lanes.
 
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