General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Is there a reason besides money why we cant install glass doors at station platforms to keep heat or a/c within the stations like other subways do? I notice we dont do this in America, but overseas this is done to keep from pumping heat or air down the tunnels. Seems like it would save a lot of money over time. I know part of it has to do with aligning to the doors the right way but that cant be hard. I know the MBTA is broke but maybe if its seen as a cost saver we could be the first? Why isnt it done anywhere in America besides like airport monorails and stuff like that? I know its a longshot but it could save money and make stations MUCH more comfortable in the summer.
 
stick n move said:
Is there a reason besides money why we cant install glass doors at station platforms to keep heat or a/c within the stations like other subways do? I notice we dont do this in America, but overseas this is done to keep from pumping heat or air down the tunnels. Seems like it would save a lot of money over time. I know part of it has to do with aligning to the doors the right way but that cant be hard. I know the MBTA is broke but maybe if its seen as a cost saver we could be the first? Why isnt it done anywhere in America besides like airport monorails and stuff like that? I know its a longshot but it could save money and make stations MUCH more comfortable in the summer.
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I believe you need automated self driving trains for these types of doors, and while you do mention this would save costs in lost heat, it will be extremely expensive to get proper duct work down to the platforms for cool and warm air.

The MBTA is conducting a study on them. It seems like fluff to me, and if I remember correctly, they are focused more on safety and efficiently moving people in and out of the trains, so with that wording, you may not see a full enclosure that would accommodate for proper A/C and ventilation.
 
It's twenty-eleventeenth on the meaningful improvements bucket list, and would have a very steep up-front cost (though it scales decently well the more installations you have).


The reason it's not seen stateside is that state-of-repair funding is so across-board horrible that transit systems have too many more urgent tasks to fund to be able to save up money for platform doors. If rapid transit got French funding levels on this continent we'd probably have them too.
 
I don't get why they don't just invest in the power for the line and move some modern light rail cars over.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
I don't get why they don't just invest in the power for the line and move some modern light rail cars over.
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Because (A) they don't have enough vehicles for that, (B) the neighborhood really likes the PCCs aesthetically, and (C) if you're going that far, you might as well just extend the Red Line proper.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
I don't get why they don't just invest in the power for the line and move some modern light rail cars over.
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  • Power isn't a problem. The Red Line modernization program in advance of the new cars is boosting the power draw throughout the Ashmont Branch. Upgrades to the RL substation that feeds the High Speed Line are to be sufficient enough to be able to power modern LRV's. The only lineside upgrades required for that are re-stringing the wire with pantograph clips.

  • The main maintenance problem is that the track and ties are in such abysmal shape after decades of deferred maintenance that right now nothing more sophisticated than a 74-year-old PCC can stay on the tracks. And they're pushing their luck even there. The Gallivan Blvd. overpass--containing maybe 300 ties on 2 tracks--got flagged as a safety hazard for having too many rotted ties. Even if you assume that every third tie is rotted (which is an extremely high number), that's like $25K materials & labor. Chintzy, chintzy stuff. Same goes for the spaghetti rail they've let malinger all up and down the line. They need to have the shameful track conditions thrown in their face.

  • Report goes into a lot of alarmist detail about "bridges!", but for Gallivan Blvd. that was about the ties on the Mattapan berths not the structure (which carries the Red Line yard leads) as a whole. Medway St. is a Town of Milton road overpass that's not the T's responsibility to begin with; if that's raining chunks down on the trackbed it's Milton's problem to fix. Most of the MBTA bridges were rehabbed during the long Ashmont reconstruction shutdown, including at least 1 of the 2 Neponset River crossings that needed weight upgrades for future LRV's. Something doesn't smell right with the way they're pushing "bridge = $$$expensive$$$" optics in this report, when the fixes are neither expensive nor relevant to a T budget.

  • The maint shed is a disgrace. However, all work equipment is brought in from the Red Line or flatbed and all major work on the trolleys is done at Riverside or Everett. So there's not as much maintenance done there as there was even 12-15 years ago. The decision on what to do with it has to get wrapped in what the decision is on replacing the PCC's, because they're not going to build a new building with track layout and lifts for servicing single-ended PCC's then renovate it 5 years later for double-ended LRV's. Hell, if it's LRV's they're probably better off building the new maint building in Codman Yard at the other end of the line where there's existing staff & security and just demolishing Mattapan shed for more bus parking. I take a little issue with slagging on this one before there's any clarity with future plans.

  • ADA. All stations except Valley Rd. (exempt because of hilly egress) have front-door mini-high ramps with bridge plates for full legal compliance. That is literally the best you can do with a high-floor trolley. I don't know what they're saying calling that "bare minimal" when the HSL has better compliance than the Green Line...subway and branches. You'd have to make the decision to go with low-floor trolleys in order to make it better, so this is another cart-before-horse criticism.


I'm worried that what they're choosing to hit hardest here paves the way to poisoning the well against any service improvements by playing funny math with "upgrades" vs. "pull out of 'yer maintenance hole" with too many of the latter's years-deferred charges lumped into the former to tank its appeal. The FCMB's playbook has been pretty well-established in that regard.
 
$10 weekend commuter rail pilot is returning starting this coming weekend. Still technically a pilot program, but there's mention of making it permanent.
 
Looks like today's going to be a rough day for the MBTA. I noticed earlier that the Worcester Line had to cancel a train because of "mechanical issues" and there was a"medical emergency" on the Fitchburg Line, and apparently the Needham Line too. Now the Red Line is busted.

Good day to stay home.
 
It's very slow to go through the tunnel. They have one set of stairs and an escalator. The escalator was going up, while the morning commute rush was going down. Seems like a lot of oversight in the design to me.
 
I know it is a very tired cliché to compare the T to European cities' transit...

But, in seriousness, we can't lose sight of what right looks like.

I have been to many of the major European cities, but I just got back from my first ever trip to Berlin. Holy shit. Now that is how you do transit.

From the ICE (Inter-City Express), regional rail (S-Bahn), subway (U-Bahn), tram, and busses, it is the most comprehensive and well-integrated system I have ever seen. The headways are miniscule, the connections effortless. No joke: transit performs better than Uber, so no one takes Uber.

The reason I thought of it here is that we have been hoping/praying for this dinky tunnel under Causeway....there, every frickin station has tunnels to all four sides of every intersection.

Let's never stop aspiring for better, folks.
 
stefalarchitect said:
It's very slow to go through the tunnel. They have one set of stairs and an escalator. The escalator was going up, while the morning commute rush was going down. Seems like a lot of oversight in the design to me.
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That escalator had better be reversible- tunnel worked quite well for Fitchburg Express, but the stair is too damn narrow. The Celtics game at 7:30 today will be an interesting stress test.
 
TallIsGood said:
Uber isn’t in Berlin. Uber just calls a taxi there.
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Sure, but that doesn't change my point. When you're out on Saturday night, it becomes clear that the quickest way to get wherever is to take transit. There's little desire for taxicabs or ride-hails when the transit is good, even among people who can easily afford a car service.
 
Any word on what the vehicle on the tracks in Wickford was? Not to be confused with the apparently separate incident in Providence...
 
bigpicture7 said:
I know it is a very tired cliché to compare the T to European cities' transit...

But, in seriousness, we can't lose sight of what right looks like.

I have been to many of the major European cities, but I just got back from my first ever trip to Berlin. Holy shit. Now that is how you do transit.

From the ICE (Inter-City Express), regional rail (S-Bahn), subway (U-Bahn), tram, and busses, it is the most comprehensive and well-integrated system I have ever seen. The headways are miniscule, the connections effortless. No joke: transit performs better than Uber, so no one takes Uber.

The reason I thought of it here is that we have been hoping/praying for this dinky tunnel under Causeway....there, every frickin station has tunnels to all four sides of every intersection.

Let's never stop aspiring for better, folks.
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The transit structure you are describing is pretty typical of major German cities. But let's not forget the timing of much of the construction -- post WWII reconstruction when all the cities were bombed out shells. It is much easier to build mega stations under major city squares, connecting to all sides, when all you are removing is rubble to do it.
 
FitchburgLine said:
That escalator had better be reversible- tunnel worked quite well for Fitchburg Express, but the stair is too damn narrow. The Celtics game at 7:30 today will be an interesting stress test.
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I did Green Line Lechmere-North Station arrived at 5pm on the dot and got to tracks quickly. I am wondering if I lucked out.
 
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