General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[whighlander]

Like Central and many other stations...nothing except the old BERy white tile and maybe a couple old fresco signs (which I'm guessing were too destroyed at Kendall to preserve, otherwise they would've been uncovered in the '88 renovation like Central's frescos). The platforms really can't be widened because of the structural invasiveness. But, they probably have some TBD options on the egresses, because egress flow backs up onto the platforms. The extremely narrow secondary exit stairs need a widening in addition to headhouse-area improvements.

F-Line -- what about the newly extended Platform segments [most obvious due to the Ceiling structure at Park] to accomodate more cars in the train

I'm assuming that there must have been some relocating of utility lines, etc. to make way for the digging that went on at the stations in the old Cambridge-Dorchester Tunnel

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

F-Line -- what about the newly extended Platform segments [most obvious due to the Ceiling structure at Park] to accomodate more cars in the train

I'm assuming that there must have been some relocating of utility lines, etc. to make way for the digging that went on at the stations in the old Cambridge-Dorchester Tunnel

That was part of the 1987-88 renovations for 6-car trains at all stops Central-Andrew + the Ashmont Branch. But you'll notice that at majority of those subway stations the platform extensions are much narrower. That traces out the structural limits of the station.


Utility relocation was probably only a minor thing for those renos because they were direct-attached to the existing stations with all their utility conduits. The construction profile wasn't big enough to engage much else.

 

[whighlander]

That was part of the 1987-88 renovations for 6-car trains at all stops Central-Andrew + the Ashmont Branch. But you'll notice that at majority of those subway stations the platform extensions are much narrower. That traces out the structural limits of the station.


Utility relocation was probably only a minor thing for those renos because they were direct-attached to the existing stations with all their utility conduits. The construction profile wasn't big enough to engage much else.

F-line good observation

However, I was vaguely remembering that the Kendall / MIT entrance/ exit complex Inbound on Main St where all the MIT Kendall construction is occurring [and soon to be rebuilt at least at the surface level] was part of the platform lengthening process

 

[sneijder]

F-line good observation

However, I was vaguely remembering that the Kendall / MIT entrance/ exit complex Inbound on Main St where all the MIT Kendall construction is occurring [and soon to be rebuilt at least at the surface level] was part of the platform lengthening process

Same thing at Central too.. the Pearl St egresses (both inbound/outbound) fill up with people outside the fare gates as a line forms underneath the stairs. Sometimes there are still people backed up onto the platform by the time the next train arrives. Some digging will be necessary especially if 3-min planned headways are on their way.

 

[sm89]

The city is having developers take a look at a few things at both Central and Kendall:

1) Reopening old entrances/exits (Central)
2) Constructing new entrances/exits (Kendall)
3) Making the ground floor of an abutting development have an entrance/exit incorporated into it (think State St) - (Central & Kendall)

I think the depth of the platforms won't be easy to address, but by increasing train frequencies and allowing people to enter/exit the stations from more points, the loads should be more evenly distributed.

 

[whighlander]

The city is having developers take a look at a few things at both Central and Kendall:

1) Reopening old entrances/exits (Central)
2) Constructing new entrances/exits (Kendall)
3) Making the ground floor of an abutting development have an entrance/exit incorporated into it (think State St) - (Central & Kendall)

I think the depth of the platforms won't be easy to address, but by increasing train frequencies and allowing people to enter/exit the stations from more points, the loads should be more evenly distributed.

Someone should --- Talk to Google / Boston Properties about the latter idea [#3]
The new entrance complex being built above ground should have an underground connection to the new Google & the Hotel

Same should be the case with MIT's stuff on the other side of Main St. although construction is much further along

an underground lobby should be considered on both sides of Main -- essentially like an airport holding room before you enter the Jetway [Subway Platform]

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

F-line good observation

However, I was vaguely remembering that the Kendall / MIT entrance/ exit complex Inbound on Main St where all the MIT Kendall construction is occurring [and soon to be rebuilt at least at the surface level] was part of the platform lengthening process

Yes, because they made the station fully accessible as part of the overall '87-88 renovation. The main entrance and headhouse were rebuilt for the elevator installation. Central, Broadway, and Andrew all got the same accessibility treatment as Kendall in the same time frame (DTX might've been done earlier by '85-86 in prep for the Orange Line SW Corridor opening, and JFK was made accessible by '82 when they added the Braintree platform).

 

[Equilibria]

Same thing at Central too.. the Pearl St egresses (both inbound/outbound) fill up with people outside the fare gates as a line forms underneath the stairs. Sometimes there are still people backed up onto the platform by the time the next train arrives. Some digging will be necessary especially if 3-min planned headways are on their way.

Technically, wouldn't more shorter headways result in less waiting on the platform, absent induced demand?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Technically, wouldn't more shorter headways result in less waiting on the platform, absent induced demand?

Kendall's crowding conditions get pretty severe at certain peakmost times of day even when service is running flawlessly, so I'm not sure about that. Ped flow seems to be perpetually constipated there.

Central sort of runs on a razor's edge...fine when service is fine, but the slightest delay utterly overwhelms the station with pressed flesh. Since both Central and Kendall have very similar designs including those claustrophobic secondary exits, it is probably not a coincidence that they both shit the bed in nearly the same way under heavy load. The scary thing is that Central gridlocks so often during even extremely mild delays that it probably hasn't got much more slack for growth left in it before it becomes unmanageable all the time during peak-most load.

3-min. headways might kick the can a little bit at Central, but delays still happen so the need for improvement is still acute. For Kendall 3-min. headways might actually do outright harm because in normal service people aren't getting on/off the platform in enough time to stay out of the way of people jockeying for door position on the next train. Better secondary entrances are a must...this dank hole designed for 19th century mole-people doesn't cut it for new-millennium humans or all the crap they're carrying on their person as they go about town.

 

[stefal]

Sort of on the topic of the Red Line, anybody using it in their daily commute? I don't, but yesterday I tried to use it on a trip to Cambridge. Keyword: tried. DTX platform was packed heading to Alewife at 3:00. Waited about 10 minutes and the message board still said the next two trains were 5 and 6 stops away. Gave up then and there.

There's no way the T can keep this up until at least Labor Day, and I feel for those that use it/used it every day.

 

[FK4]

Sort of on the topic of the Red Line, anybody using it in their daily commute? I don't, but yesterday I tried to use it on a trip to Cambridge. Keyword: tried. DTX platform was packed heading to Alewife at 3:00. Waited about 10 minutes and the message board still said the next two trains were 5 and 6 stops away. Gave up then and there.

There's no way the T can keep this up until at least Labor Day, and I feel for those that use it/used it every day.

I made the switch from drive to train (commuter to red line) only a couple weeks before the derailment. It’s been disgusting, try getting home during rush hour - it’s absolutely insane. I’ve been trying to do orange to back bay instead when I can... but the OL sucks so bad with headways its not even funny. Especially outside of rush hour - if you work a little late, it’s frustrating waiting for 10+ minutes at DTX or elsewhere and getting on a packed train.

 

[sneijder]

Sort of on the topic of the Red Line, anybody using it in their daily commute? I don't, but yesterday I tried to use it on a trip to Cambridge. Keyword: tried. DTX platform was packed heading to Alewife at 3:00. Waited about 10 minutes and the message board still said the next two trains were 5 and 6 stops away. Gave up then and there.

There's no way the T can keep this up until at least Labor Day, and I feel for those that use it/used it every day.

Although they may have 10tph on the line during rush hour, the effective capacity is less because the manual signaling thru Columbia Junction makes headways fairly volatile. It might average 6m a train, but I've waited twice that for a train at SS northbound. Big gaps like that is when the platforms get dangerously crowded, and although you might be able to squeeze on at SS, no one is able to board the train from Park >> Harvard.

 

[RandomWalk]

It’s too bad they can’t enlarge and reopen the old Kendall entrance built into the Kendall building.

 

[KentXie]

Honestly, if I lived on the Red Line, I'd invest in a car and drive to work. Better yet, ask if you can remote and work from home.

 

[cadetcarl]

Honestly, if I lived on the Red Line, I'd invest in a car and drive to work. Better yet, ask if you can remote and work from home.

With all due respect, that's ridiculous and defeatist. I ride the Red Line every day and know about its travails but despite them there is no sense in which a car commute from the ends of the Red Line downtown is improved with a car. Every couple of weeks there are pretty bad delays, and it is a totally unacceptable level of service. But let's not be hyperbolic, it's still reliable and superior to driving and parking.

 

[bakgwailo]

With all due respect, that's ridiculous and defeatist. I ride the Red Line every day and know about its travails but despite them there is no sense in which a car commute from the ends of the Red Line downtown is improved with a car. Every couple of weeks there are pretty bad delays, and it is a totally unacceptable level of service. But let's not be hyperbolic, it's still reliable and superior to driving and parking.

At least for my case, it really isn't at this point. Average about an hour on a good day, with the signalling issues on the red its now about an hour and a half to go from Dot to East Cambridge (~6.5 miles as the crow flies). Its pretty ridiculous given that driving is 20 minutes no traffic (lol), or about 40 minutes with bad traffic. So, yeah - depending on peoples work and parking situations, I don't think its hyperbolic at all at this point to switch.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

At least for my case, it really isn't at this point. Average about an hour on a good day, with the signalling issues on the red its now about an hour and a half to go from Dot to East Cambridge (~6.5 miles as the crow flies). Its pretty ridiculous given that driving is 20 minutes no traffic (lol), or about 40 minutes with bad traffic. So, yeah - depending on peoples work and parking situations, I don't think its hyperbolic at all at this point to switch.

On the other hand, now that I know Shirley Leung did it I feel oddly compelled to ride the Red Line...like...harder than ever before.

 

[FK4]

On the other hand, now that I know Shirley Leung did it I feel oddly compelled to ride the Red Line...like...harder than ever before.

Nice one. She’s a twit.

 

[ceo]

I commute from Somerville to the Seaport. Inbound it's generally fine, but outbound has been a big ol' charlie foxtrot more often than not. On days I don't bike to work, I've taken to getting on the 6:00 Seaport ferry to North Station and catching the 6:25 Fitchburg train to Porter and walking from there. The ferry is free for Seaport workers and has much nicer views than the Silver Line.

Of course, that did me no good at all last week when an earlier train hit someone at Brandeis; after we sat in the station for a bit I decided I had other options, looked at the Transit app and headed up to Sullivan to catch an 89. Of course, because of the Broadway bridge closure, it doesn't go almost right by my house anymore; I had to stay on until it got to Highland Ave and walk back. Still the right call; friend of mine who was on the train that hit someone didn't get home until late that night.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Classic Red Line performance yesterday. Boarded a Braintree train at Davis. Last car was "dead" but the lights were on and there was no announcement, so minor mayhem as people scrambled to relocate. We got as far as Kendall, then the train was taken out of service, so everyone was kicked out onto the platform. While waiting for another train (more than 10 minutes) an Alewife train arrived at the other platform, also with a dead first car, again no announcement, lights on.

Gotta love the MBTA.