General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[Equilibria]

Keeping the live-posting in one place, the FMCB just approved design advancement for three one-platform Newton CR stations. Aiello asked about maybe putting a second platform on one of them to start, and I think that might have been added to the pot (looking at it, not building it). Second platforms could still come later to all three stations.

 

[Coyote137]

e.g., the whole operation is a cluster___ and needs to be taken substantially more seriously from both an infrastructure maintenance and enforcement standpoint.

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, there IS NO bus-only lane, except in very limited places. I can paint something off in front of my house that says "Coyote137 ONLY in this space," but it doesn't mean shit.

 

[ant8904]

We at TM are trying to get the T to market it this way. Marketing it as "track work" is useless, but marketing it as "your trip will be 20 seconds faster" is something riders care about and can feel.

The fact that TM needs to lobby the T to be smart about marketing shows how inept the MBTA is at public relations.

Most likely, MBTA will do what WMATA did, where "rip off the bandaid" became "business as usual".

After a decade of "getting serious about maintenance," WMATA customers continue to enjoy weekend closures, month long closures, early night closures, etc etc

PATH did something similar. They did weekend closure on the 33rd street line for an entire year (12 whole months).

Check their twitter. Every single day there are delays due to "signal malfunctions"

A whole year of weekend closures to fix the dam signals and 6 months later the signals fail every rush hour. Every day!

That’s kind of what happens when state of repair gets as bad as it’s gotten on many systems. You think they’re purposefully sabotaging it? Do you think it’s corrupt? Or is it actually just that fucking bad?

These 4 are particularly inter-related to me. Is this the start of a big push to fix things. To kill off a huge backlog so we return to actually decent service. Or the start of a new, even worse normal.


Transit Matters apparently trying to persuade the MBTA to sell the weekend shutdowns as a push to bring more service. Somehow the MBTA only to wants to announce the amount of feet of track. Is it because of ineptitude or knowledge that will somehow bring no additional upgrade in service?

Or worse... end up like WMATA where months of closures seems to do see no change to any disfunction on the days it does work? Could it be possible we'll somehow just see the exact same slow zones and electrical outages? If that what happens (and it could, I mean look at the Orange line's Signal Upgrades - how are they still upgrading? Hell, what did they upgrade when they are also bidding out a major upgrade to the signal system). If that what happens, is it just the sheer amount of backlog? Or something... well at this point... I would all sinister, tbh.


Transit Matters have to make them promise a result. Not just transparency of something like amount of track, wiring, or lights fixed up. But a direct service changes. Not just as a PR strategy. But it might be one of the few ways to prevent what Jass describes of WMATA.

 

[George_Apley]

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, there IS NO bus-only lane, except in very limited places. I can paint something off in front of my house that says "Coyote137 ONLY in this space," but it doesn't mean shit.

BTD is hiring dedicated bus lane enforcement officers for the first time. So hopefully that will help. They can also repaint more often. Not sure what else can be done beyond better enforcement.

 

[George_Apley]

These 4 are particularly inter-related to me. Is this the start of a big push to fix things. To kill off a huge backlog so we return to actually decent service. Or the start of a new, even worse normal.


Transit Matters apparently trying to persuade the MBTA to sell the weekend shutdowns as a push to bring more service. Somehow the MBTA only to wants to announce the amount of feet of track. Is it because of ineptitude or knowledge that will somehow bring no additional upgrade in service?

Or worse... end up like WMATA where months of closures seems to do see no change to any disfunction on the days it does work? Could it be possible we'll somehow just see the exact same slow zones and electrical outages? If that what happens (and it could, I mean look at the Orange line's Signal Upgrades - how are they still upgrading? Hell, what did they upgrade when they are also bidding out a major upgrade to the signal system). If that what happens, is it just the sheer amount of backlog? Or something... well at this point... I would all sinister, tbh.


Transit Matters have to make them promise a result. Not just transparency of something like amount of track, wiring, or lights fixed up. But a direct service changes. Not just as a PR strategy. But it might be one of the few ways to prevent what Jass describes of WMATA.

Part of it is that connected infrastructure systems are all in various amounts of disrepair (i.e. fix the tracks, but electrical infrastructure shits the bed), which requires ever deeper probes into legacy infrastructure that involves more and more agencies and contractors and bloats time and cost.

Part of it is about transparency. Why are the signal upgrades taking so long? Does anyone know? It's a problem that it's not easily evident to most transit users.

 

[Coyote137]

BTD is hiring dedicated bus lane enforcement officers for the first time. So hopefully that will help. They can also repaint more often. Not sure what else can be done beyond better enforcement.

Glad to hear it, and that is a great step. Again, there needs to be the political will. Quadruple the fines, and people will stay the hell out of the lane. Dismiss infractions because nobody really cares, and people will keep cruising down the "bus lane." There are bus/train lanes in downtown Portland, and guess what? People generally stay out of them because enforcement is highly consistent, and fines are significant.

 

[George_Apley]

Glad to hear it, and that is a great step. Again, there needs to be the political will. Quadruple the fines, and people will stay the hell out of the lane. Dismiss infractions because nobody really cares, and people will keep cruising down the "bus lane." There are bus/train lanes in downtown Portland, and guess what? People generally stay out of them because enforcement is highly consistent, and fines are significant.

In my experience, there aren't lots of people actually traveling in the bus lanes. It's the right-turns (which are legal), delivery vans, ubers, and stopped cars that cause the disruptions.

 

[Equilibria]

The fact that TM needs to lobby the T to be smart about marketing shows how inept the MBTA is at public relations.

FWIW, Pollack explicitly discussed the need to communicate benefits better to customers at the FMCB today.

Instead, we get this kind of project done in 2-3 years.

I don't see how the MBTA, or really any US transit system, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, we in the US are perfectly capable of weekend bridge replacements and overnight repairs. We do it all the time, including on the T.

When you get 2-3 year projects is when you don't do closures.

 

[WormtownNative]

Keeping the live-posting in one place, the FMCB just approved design advancement for three one-platform Newton CR stations. Aiello asked about maybe putting a second platform on one of them to start, and I think that might have been added to the pot (looking at it, not building it). Second platforms could still come later to all three stations.

Just to clarify....same setup as it is currently, 1 side platform? Second to come later?

 

[Coyote137]

In my experience, there aren't lots of people actually traveling in the bus lanes. It's the right-turns (which are legal), delivery vans, ubers, and stopped cars that cause the disruptions.

Leave a $500 ticket on their window, and boot them when they don't pay.

This is also why right turns are not allowed in the bus/train lanes in downtown Portland. Granted, it's easier when you're dealing with a grid, and people can easily take a few lefts to get back around.

 

[Coyote137]

FWIW, Pollack explicitly discussed the need to communicate benefits better to customers at the FMCB today.

Communication is great, but there needs to be sufficient replacement service. Telling people that they're up shit creek on the weekend until 2020 is unacceptable - even if it's communicated very well that we're up shit creek. We need great communication, and a paddle.

 

[Equilibria]

Just to clarify....same setup as it is currently, 1 side platform? Second to come later?

One platform, not the same setup. Platform is on the Washington St. side of the tracks, which eliminates the rickety metal stairs and replaces them with better looking and safer stairs, ramps, and an elevator at one station.

The second platform requires track crossings (pedestrian bridges with lots more elevators) and modification to overpasses. That's why the second platform is twice as expensive as the first.

The platform will also be full-height, with much better shelters, seating, signage, etc. It will be night-and-day to the current crapfests. Would be great to have bitten the bullet on the second platforms, though.

 

[DominusNovus]

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, there IS NO bus-only lane, except in very limited places. I can paint something off in front of my house that says "Coyote137 ONLY in this space," but it doesn't mean shit.

In all fairness, thats because you don't have the authority to enforce it. The government does, they just don't bother to.

 

[datadyne007]

These 4 are particularly inter-related to me. Is this the start of a big push to fix things. To kill off a huge backlog so we return to actually decent service. Or the start of a new, even worse normal.


Transit Matters apparently trying to persuade the MBTA to sell the weekend shutdowns as a push to bring more service. Somehow the MBTA only to wants to announce the amount of feet of track. Is it because of ineptitude or knowledge that will somehow bring no additional upgrade in service?

Or worse... end up like WMATA where months of closures seems to do see no change to any disfunction on the days it does work? Could it be possible we'll somehow just see the exact same slow zones and electrical outages? If that what happens (and it could, I mean look at the Orange line's Signal Upgrades - how are they still upgrading? Hell, what did they upgrade when they are also bidding out a major upgrade to the signal system). If that what happens, is it just the sheer amount of backlog? Or something... well at this point... I would all sinister, tbh.


Transit Matters have to make them promise a result. Not just transparency of something like amount of track, wiring, or lights fixed up. But a direct service changes. Not just as a PR strategy. But it might be one of the few ways to prevent what Jass describes of WMATA.

Happy to report the T was already planning to market it for the time savings and few delays:

https://twitter.com/MBTA/status/1160960469248696321

MBTA @MBTA
These improvements aim to lessen travel time, reduce unplanned service interruptions, & enhance access for riders of all abilities across the system. We hope to regain your trust while developing a safer, more reliable, convenient transit experience. (3/3) (link: http://mbta.com/BuildingABetterT)

1:05 PM · Aug 12, 2019

 

[Coyote137]

In all fairness, thats because you don't have the authority to enforce it. The government does, they just don't bother to.

Sure, and the outcome is exactly the same.

 

[ant8904]

Happy to report the T was already planning to market it for the time savings and few delays:

https://twitter.com/MBTA/status/1160960469248696321

MBTA @MBTA
These improvements aim to lessen travel time, reduce unplanned service interruptions, & enhance access for riders of all abilities across the system. We hope to regain your trust while developing a safer, more reliable, convenient transit experience. (3/3) (link: http://mbta.com/BuildingABetterT)

1:05 PM · Aug 12, 2019

That is good, but I would like more specifics. At least they are saying the completion of the project will see palpable results. But if they can say something like "decrease travel time by 2 minutes", "increase speed limit in this section from 30 mph to 40 mph", "decommission the slow zone into a normal speed section", "fixes performed like this should mean no additional Weekend shutdown level maintenance work in this area for X years". That would be more much meaningful.

I do admit some other stuff like "likelihood of power outage" or "decreased derailments" is much harder to notice. That is one of those things only noticeable in statistics with enough samples and easily falls into things only noticeable when it doesn't work. But hopefully the work that needs to be done includes like that can yield immediate and palpable results. And TM should make sure they explicitly says such things to help increase the odds of what some posters are fearing.

 

[jass]

So you’re in the “we’re hopelessly corrupt and will continue to be” mindset? Assuming you’re right, what should happen to change course? Or is it all doom and gloom?

Is there anything in the current MBTA management and MA governance that makes you think it's a brand new day in moving projects forward?

Usually, getting out of doom and gloom requires major structural changes.

Transit Matters apparently trying to persuade the MBTA to sell the weekend shutdowns as a push to bring more service. Somehow the MBTA only to wants to announce the amount of feet of track. Is it because of ineptitude or knowledge that will somehow bring no additional upgrade in service?

Reminds me of how Amtrak spent 3-4 years upgrading the NEC in NJ to support 160mph speeds.

They too only spoke about "miles of new cable" and what not. Sure enough, as the project drew to a close, there were zero improvements in service. Acelas still go 150 instead of 160, and NJT trains are still held so the 4 hour late Amtrak train from Florida can stop in Metropark.

Now the current claim is that the new Avelia trains will be "capable of 160mph." Youll note Amtrak never actually says thats what theyll do.


Edit: and on cue, MBTA releases the Newton station plans with this nugget:

Alternative 3 –Center-Island Platform
Total program duration of approximately 12 years
Total construction duration of 9 years

I'm sorry, this is the agency I am supposed to trust?

12 f-ing years to rebuild 3 commuter rail stops?

 

[HelloBostonHi]

That is good, but I would like more specifics. At least they are saying the completion of the project will see palpable results. But if they can say something like "decrease travel time by 2 minutes", "increase speed limit in this section from 30 mph to 40 mph", "decommission the slow zone into a normal speed section", "fixes performed like this should mean no additional Weekend shutdown level maintenance work in this area for X years". That would be more much meaningful.

I do admit some other stuff like "likelihood of power outage" or "decreased derailments" is much harder to notice. That is one of those things only noticeable in statistics with enough samples and easily falls into things only noticeable when it doesn't work. But hopefully the work that needs to be done includes like that can yield immediate and palpable results. And TM should make sure they explicitly says such things to help increase the odds of what some posters are fearing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ted4P/status/1160955043807240192

"For C branch improvements, giving exact targeted speedups down to seconds!"

 

[JeffDowntown]

In my experience, there aren't lots of people actually traveling in the bus lanes. It's the right-turns (which are legal), delivery vans, ubers, and stopped cars that cause the disruptions.

On Essex Street, people travel in the bus lane all the time. Almost more populated with cars and trucks than the other lanes.

 

[odurandina]

The frustrating part is that no one will note the benefits of the work - they'll just find something else to complain about.

will the work be carried out 3 shifts/24hrs/day on the weekends?