General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[kingofsheeba]

Oh my gosh,

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Massachusetts is actually this bad to have such a venue look like this in the middle of nothing?

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My summer gig involves working load in/load out for Live Nation (IATSE #11). The venue itself is so depressing and so many missed opportunities for a Commuter Rail station and TOD. The people that I work with are fine. The concerts are a blast. The venue is just…bleh. Definitely missed opportunities. Maybe some more hotels in and around the 140/495 interchange. Beyond that, TOD around that part of Mansfield will be met with NIMBY blowback.

 

[millerm277]

Oh my gosh,

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Massachusetts is actually this bad to have such a venue look like this in the middle of nothing?

Large outdoor amphitheaters tend to be built in the middle of nothing and not near transit - often not even great road infrastructure. Noise complaints are I think a big factor. You really don't want to have much of anything in the direction of the speakers for a mile or so. Pretty sure it's sited there in part because there's a mile of woods to the next property in the direction the speakers face.

They also tend to be basically unused for 6-8 months a year in our region, so I feel like the draw of being near the venue for other development is somewhat low.

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I actually can't think of many large ones that *are* accessible by transit in the Northeast.

Pretty much all the big names are a no. Xfinity Theater (Hartford), Jones Beach, PNC Arts Center (NJ), Meadowbrook (NH), Saratoga, etc - no.

I think Philadelphia-area is the only place that pulls this off in the region - Mann Center + the Pavilion across the river in Camden are both entirely viable to get to by transit.

 

[sneijder]

I guess I'm sort of confused how the Gillette area would blossom with TOD if only they had trains every 30 minutes...it's still 23 miles to Boston and, more importantly, they'd still need a ton of parking because people go there from all over New England to get to games, not just along the Franklin Line. And structured parking is obviously significantly more expensive than surface lots.

Many of these people are wealthy and drive in from low-density areas, including New Hampshire and Maine; they're not going to go into Boston / PVD / rte 128 and then take a train out. Kind of the same reason Logan only has a ~13% transit access modeshare, with the majority of that on express buses and not the BL / SL -- people are coming from far out and they skew wealthy.

Maybe there would be some residential by the train station with good service, like there is at Mansfield or Canton but I strongly doubt we'd ever get real urbanity there -- it's going to have a sea of parking forever.

That is true but relieving traffic congestion is non linear such that even if we get 10-25% to take the train, the traffic situation will ease up. And of course if the CR were a connected regional rail network with NSRL that gives a lot more suburb-to-suburb 2-seat rides with travel times that would still be faster than driving.

That airport stat is a bit depressing for an airport that is so close to the downtown core (and effectively in an urban environment). I got to think if the transit options didn't suck so much (i.e. have a people mover to the blue line, or silver line doing 3 laps of the seaport before actually reaching SS where everyone is trying to go) it would be greater utilized. You're probably right that the users here might skew wealthy, but I'd imagine majority are still within the Boston metro area (i.e. within reach of the MBTA heavy rail & bus). Of course, many of those on the outskirts (Newton, Quincy, Sommerville, Revere) are opting to drive because having to make 1-2 transfers makes the trip woefully uncompetitive with driving. But if the transit options were better they might be willing to switch modes.

 

[ritchiew]

I actually can't think of many large ones that *are* accessible by transit in the Northeast.

It's outside the Northeast, but Ravinia (around Chicago) is a great example of what could be. It has its own seasonal Metra station right outside the gates. Even off season, the regular year-round station is a short walk.

They also tend to be basically unused for 6-8 months a year

Mostly true, but there can be more going on in the winter than you might expect. Again, I know a bit about Ravina. Through the winter they can have (much) smaller indoor concerts, music education for nearby schools, and artists-in-residence living there. That becomes a lot more possible when it is a quick, convenient train ride to/from the Loop.

 

[Mother Brook]

That airport stat is a bit depressing for an airport that is so close to the downtown core (and effectively in an urban environment). I got to think if the transit options didn't suck so much (i.e. have a people mover to the blue line, or silver line doing 3 laps of the seaport before actually reaching SS where everyone is trying to go) it would be greater utilized. You're probably right that the users here might skew wealthy, but I'd imagine majority are still within the Boston metro area (i.e. within reach of the MBTA heavy rail & bus).

I disagree, if you are spending $400 on a plane ticket it's not much more to pay $40 for a cab ride direct to your destination and you don't have to lug your junk (you're going to have to transfer again downtown in most cases anyway even if there was a people mover to the BL). And a lot of travelers are on business (~40%) and comped anyway. Maybe if the airport was in the center of the hub and spoke but that's obviously impossible.

Half of passengers are coming from outside 128, as well. The Logan ground access survey is illuminating:

https://www.massport.com/media/3403/2019-air-passenger-survey-final-report-082319.pdf

 

[HenryAlan]

I think focusing on passengers kind of misses the point. Is the 13% passenger capture rate, or does it represent all people who travel to Logan? Transit to Logan is valuable for some airline passengers, but by far, the most important reasons for airports to have good transit is that they are massive employment centers. I suspect most who arrive by Blue or Silver are employees.

 

[Delvin4519]

MBTA isn't even capable of double checking that the data they enter into the DB is validated. Someone decided to upload 10MPH for the entire OL southbound (invalid data).

Most likely incorrect. (EDIT: fixed this afternoon already)

OL southbound looks normal today, so it must be bad data.

Blue Line is now clear Maverick west. Now just need to get the Blue Line out quickly to clear the rest out.

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2. Also, is "Summer 2023 Bus servicce strategy" referring to BNRD bus network redesign? This is in the MBTA board agenda.

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[Arlington]

Why does the BL AIrport station vending machines sell Charlie Tickets, but none of the faregates apparently take them? (Including the only one that doesn't have a "Charlie Cards Only" sign on it). Or were the ones that take Charlie Tickets hidden on the other side of the unstaffed information booth? Seems to me, it's a terrible way to introduce people to the system.

 

[millerm277]

That airport stat is a bit depressing for an airport that is so close to the downtown core (and effectively in an urban environment). I got to think if the transit options didn't suck so much (i.e. have a people mover to the blue line, or silver line doing 3 laps of the seaport before actually reaching SS where everyone is trying to go) it would be greater utilized.

Or if the transit actually ran early/late enough to be usable. As someone usually going West not South, most of the time I fly out of Logan, I've either got a 5-7AM departure or a >11PM return. (or both).

There were ~76 flights this morning that left before 7:15AM. (ignoring UPS/Fedex/charter). It's basically not possible to get to Logan via transit for any of these with appropriate extra time unless you live on the Blue Line directly. That's at least 15% or so of Logan's departures (from a rough filtering + ignoring Cape Air) right there that have about 0% "real" potential transit share in the MBTA service zone.

Returns aren't *as* bad in quantity, but there's ~48 flights scheduled to get in at 11PM or later tonight. (and the real-world number is likely a little higher with delays). Doesn't take much of a delay at any point - flight, baggage carousel, waiting for a shuttle bus/SL to push you out past the time you can actually get home rather than stuck somewhere slightly closer to home by transit.

And the on-airport shuttle bus frequency is awful at those hours as well - the buses absolutely do not run "every 5-6 minutes" at those hours. I've contemplated just walking down the road to the economy garage at times of waiting >20 minutes for a shuttle bus, it'd be nearly as fast.

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Logan Express for the suburbs is (mostly) better for getting there, but for getting back the 1:15AM last trip is still an issue. There's inbound flights that flat-out can't make reliably that, even if they're exactly on schedule. And once delays/variability is in the picture....there's a lot of those >11PM flights where you can't guarantee you're going to be out on the curb with your bags by 1:15AM every time. And if you're not, then what? Uber yourself 20 miles? Spend the night in the airport until the first outbound trip or the morning?

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In summary, I'll suggest that at least 15-20% of Logan's passengers currently *can't* use transit for at least one end of their trip, even if they do live within an area we usually consider well served by transit.

 

[nbcoram]

Why does the BL AIrport station vending machines sell Charlie Tickets, but none of the faregates apparently take them? (Including the only one that doesn't have a "Charlie Cards Only" sign on it). Or were the ones that take Charlie Tickets hidden on the other side of the unstaffed information booth? Seems to me, it's a terrible way to introduce people to the system.

The CharlieTickets are now tapped like a CharlieCard and can no longer be inserted.

 

[Arlington]

The CharlieTickets are now tapped like a CharlieCard and can no longer be inserted.

That was either not possible or not obvious to several travelers I saw attempt to get though the gate with a ticket. One was my son (I had my card, he had a ticket) and I think it was only that I broke the beam on the exit side and the gate opened and let him in.

 

[Delvin4519]

This is how bad the bus operator shortage has been at the MBTA, board meeting slides:

 

[nbcoram]

That was either not possible or not obvious to several travelers I saw attempt to get though the gate with a ticket. One was my son (I had my card, he had a ticket) and I think it was only that I broke the beam on the exit side and the gate opened and let him in.

The signage should *really* be beefed up at Logan Airport in particular. Not a great look for people using the system for the first time.

 

[737900er]

If this operator shortage looks like a long-term problem, and I think it does, why are they still ordering 40 foot buses they don't have anyone to drive? Shouldn't 60-footers be an increasing share of the fleet? Yes, in a perfect world, shorter headways with 40-footers are better, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Given the operator shortage, it's a little surprising they're retiring the dual-modes rather than running them as diesel-only to increase capacity on the trips that are operating, although I know those buses are well past their prime.

 

[Koopzilla24]

In theory, Gillette could have a great rail connection. Under a full RUR schedule, with the required track improvements, electrification, and platform upgrades, there would be a reasonably fast and frequent connection between Gillette and downtown. I have to think that under such a scenario, the Krafts, being the smart businessmen that they are, would build out the parking lots for TOD housing and commerce. You'd get a sort of football themed urban amusements and lifestyle satellite to Boston proper.

If the Foxboro Line was active at the time of Patriot Place being developed it would’ve been a big money move to have the shopping center directly integrated with the rail station. Possibly even making it a partially indoor mall and having a multi-track station receiving regular trains from Providence and Boston. It is a popular destination when events aren’t in session at Gillette and with more shops or being a premier shopping mall it’d have the potential to make big money for Kraft from retailers. Even people who would drive in could have the option to hangout at the mall and then take a train into Boston or Providence then return. Think if the Natick Mall or Emerald Sq had a train station integrated with them. They could’ve even just rotated Patriot Place over to the east side of the stadium and made a great train destination.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

If this operator shortage looks like a long-term problem, and I think it does, why are they still ordering 40 foot buses they don't have anyone to drive? Shouldn't 60-footers be an increasing share of the fleet? Yes, in a perfect world, shorter headways with 40-footers are better, but that doesn't seem to be happening.

Given the operator shortage, it's a little surprising they're retiring the dual-modes rather than running them as diesel-only to increase capacity on the trips that are operating, although I know those buses are well past their prime.

They only have 1 garage, Southampton, that's equipped for 60-footers. And that relatively small garage's capacity is almost entirely taken up by the Silver Line, 28, and 39. So they can't expand the range of 60-footers on the system without opening up another garage capable of servicing them. The proposals for a bus garage at Wellington would add exactly that: a second 60-footer garage, and one specifically that can equip any of the Charlestown routes with them.

Meanwhile, the oldest 40-footers in-service are 15 years old and lack any hybrid drive (they're the last straight-diesel buses in the fleet). They need to be retired on-schedule, which is what the current order of 40-footer hybrids and its option order is for.

 

[stefal]

This is how bad the bus operator shortage has been at the MBTA, board meeting slides:

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It should be noted the second table here is smartER planning by the MBTA, not perfect or good by any means, but smarter, i.e. optimizing with what they have. Instead of developing schedules that meet the T's obscure desired levels, they are releasing schedules for the summer based on expected staff availability. It should result in less dropped trips across the system overall, and not mostly just on select high-frequency routes. With these published schedules, you can better rely on a 1 bus showing up every 10-15 minutes, as opposed to 8-12, but sometimes 16-36 minutes. Consistency means less delays and better experience overall across the system. They are also moving forward with some Bus Network Redesign Initiatives, but anything that requires additional staff (pretty much higher frequencies) is on hold.

Also to note: they have finally negotiated immediate full-time onboarding for bus drivers with 589. They are also trying to set up a set of drivers that consistently work ~20 hours/week around the same shift time if possible, but sounds like logistics with 589 still have to be straightened out there. I can imagine long-timers aren't going to be too happy with these changes. Conversations are still ongoing regarding pay grades.


Other notes:

• Lots of numbers on headcount being thrown around too, with no clear/central answer. The slide notes 200 operators have been hired since January. However, at several points, various officials cited "net positive ~200+ headcount so far," but "we've lost ~700," so "we've actually hired 900." These numbers are different from numbers in other reports recently too.
• A new "head of stations" position is being established to address station appearance and performance. It's not really clear where/how they fit in, since these would probably be capital projects, which are funded from an annual 5-year capital investment plan that the board is voting to approve at the next meeting.
• June will see a good amount of work requiring shutdowns on Red and Green, and overnight work with minimal rider interruptions across the system. There was a new map being used indicating the severity of the speed restriction, relative to the standard line speed, on a simple Red=bad, yellow=not terrible, green=good scale. The Red Line is in pretty bad shape (this isn't news to anyone riding, but was pretty obvious with the map) with a few good swaths of red portions and a good number of yellow, green isn't terrible with a few yellow portions that seem like they're going to be addressed this month, and Orange has a good amount of yellow, but no plans for major shutdown work in June. They also note, these plans are subject to general logistics over labor, material, etc.

 

[Koopzilla24]

They only have 1 garage, Southampton, that's equipped for 60-footers. And that relatively small garage's capacity is almost entirely taken up by the Silver Line, 28, and 39. So they can't expand the range of 60-footers on the system without opening up another garage capable of servicing them. The proposals for a bus garage at Wellington would add exactly that: a second 60-footer garage, and one specifically that can equip any of the Charlestown routes with them.

Meanwhile, the oldest 40-footers in-service are 15 years old and lack any hybrid drive (they're the last straight-diesel buses in the fleet). They need to be retired on-schedule, which is what the current order of 40-footer hybrids and its option order is for.

Does anyone know what the small garage at Readville is used for? I see the yard and garage full of only 60’ buses so I’d imagine it’s maintenance only but it’s not listed on the inventory page.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Does anyone know what the small garage at Readville is used for? I see the yard and garage full of only 60’ buses so I’d imagine it’s maintenance only but it’s not listed on the inventory page.

There's no MBTA garage at Readville. Readville's a train-only facility. The only buses at Readville are school buses in the big city yard on Industrial Dr.

The retired Silver Line 60-footers are being stored at Wellington after decommissioning, and there are no 60-ft. buses in the work fleet. Southampton is the only place the active 60 ft. fleet is based out of.

 

[Delvin4519]

It should be noted the second table here is smartER planning by the MBTA, not perfect or good by any means, but smarter, i.e. optimizing with what they have. Instead of developing schedules that meet the T's obscure desired levels, they are releasing schedules for the summer based on expected staff availability. It should result in less dropped trips across the system overall, and not mostly just on select high-frequency routes. With these published schedules, you can better rely on a 1 bus showing up every 10-15 minutes, as opposed to 8-12, but sometimes 16-36 minutes. Consistency means less delays and better experience overall across the system. They are also moving forward with some Bus Network Redesign Initiatives, but anything that requires additional staff (pretty much higher frequencies) is on hold.

Also to note: they have finally negotiated immediate full-time onboarding for bus drivers with 589. They are also trying to set up a set of drivers that consistently work ~20 hours/week around the same shift time if possible, but sounds like logistics with 589 still have to be straightened out there. I can imagine long-timers aren't going to be too happy with these changes. Conversations are still ongoing regarding pay grades.


Other notes:

• Lots of numbers on headcount being thrown around too, with no clear/central answer. The slide notes 200 operators have been hired since January. However, at several points, various officials cited "net positive ~200+ headcount so far," but "we've lost ~700," so "we've actually hired 900." These numbers are different from numbers in other reports recently too..

Agreed. It looks worse on paper since it is easier to analyze paper GTFS schedules, than actual trips that occurred (the latter is much messier data to work with).

The decision to put most of BNRD on hold, I'm not sure what to think. I would think it would be a no brainer to change the terminal for the 450 to Wonderland, instead of Haymarket. That way the 450 can avoid the Sumner Tunnel closures, charge cheaper local bus fares instead of express, and Wonderland is literally right there in Revere, increasing frequency. What's the point of the 450 running all the way to Haymarket if the Blue Line's Wonderland station is literally just a left turn away? It adds so much waste of route milage, makes airport connections a lengthy detour, and decreases frequency in Lynn dramatically.

I hope the 450 does get it's permanent BNRD change, like it would be a waste not to. Have to wait for the public meeting for full details.