General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[Mother Brook]

On top of that, the Orange Line shutdown was conducted in 2022, and managed by the Baker/Poftak MBTA. This one was conducted in 2023, by the Healey/Eng MBTA (which also just fixed the GLX slow zones in two weeks). Kind of a big change there.

This is what they want you to think. It is most of the same people at the MBTA managing the actual work. I suspect they learned from their mistakes the first time around and as others have said, the shutdown was better planned and most importantly had fewer surprises once they got out there.

For the OL almost no one knew it was going to happen until like 3 weeks before it actually happened. That is a nuts schedule and it's amazing that they even got enough shuttles (this was very costly). The Ashmont branch was announced months ago.

 

[Equilibria]

September 16 - October 12 is 4 weeks, not two weeks. The slow zones were there for 4 weeks.

Two weeks from when they said they'd have them fixed in two weeks, which was the first week of October.

This is what they want you to think. It is most of the same people at the MBTA managing the actual work. I suspect they learned from their mistakes the first time around and as others have said, the shutdown was better planned and most importantly had fewer surprises once they got out there.

For the OL almost no one knew it was going to happen until like 3 weeks before it actually happened. That is a nuts schedule and it's amazing that they even got enough shuttles (this was very costly). The Ashmont branch was announced months ago.

Maybe, but their bosses are new (and more attentive), and that means more accountability.

 

[bigeman312]

Quick Red Line Data Update through 11/1/2023

• Median Ashmont Branch round trips improved by 37 seconds day-over-day to 17:07
  • Only 21 seconds slower than the fastest on record.
  • Faster than any day outside of lowest-low ridership COVID days:
    • Fastest since Labor Day, 2021, which likely had about 50% of the ridership of yesterday (11/1/2023) at most.

Safe to say we are at or near best speeds we've seen in years, if ever.

 

[Delvin4519]

Apparently they cancelled the subcommittee meetings, so we won't know the bus operator shortage updates until around Christmas. Last time checked 5-6 weeks ago they had only gained a net 11 bus operators with a shortage of around 350-360.

 

[ulrichomega]

Quick Red Line Data Update through 11/1/2023

• Median Ashmont Branch round trips improved by 37 seconds day-over-day to 17:07
  • Only 21 seconds slower than the fastest on record.
  • Faster than any day outside of lowest-low ridership COVID days:
    • Fastest since Labor Day, 2021, which likely had about 50% of the ridership of yesterday (11/1/2023) at most.

Safe to say we are at or near best speeds we've seen in years, if ever.

I retract all my previous kvetching. Huzzah! Shut down every line!

 

[jklo]

Maybe, but their bosses are new (and more attentive), and that means more accountability.

I was thinking/hoping that when the FTA got involved, that they would kick some butts into gear to actually make progress. Perhaps that's what happened.

 

[bigeman312]

I retract all my previous kvetching. Huzzah! Shut down every line!

If they can replicate the success of the Ashmont Branch closure, I fully support a well-timed, two-week suspension between JFK/UMass and Park St. Would 12/21 - 1/4 be possible? I would love the idea of people getting back from the holidays and the Red Line works better than it has in a year.

 

[nbcoram]

If they can replicate the success of the Ashmont Branch closure, I fully support a well-timed, two-week suspension between JFK/UMass and Park St. Would 12/21 - 1/4 be possible? I would love the idea of people getting back from the holidays and the Red Line works better than it has in a year.

Not an expert on when they prefer to schedule diversions, there is no good time for a diversion, but the few days prior to Christmas can be big travel days (not as much as Thanksgiving) and not running trains into South Station seems like a bad idea. That said, the week after Christmas would probably be fine as people I think tend to trickle back. Not sure if the trackworkers usually work on Christmas or not. December 21 is also a Thursday; December 23 would probably be the time to start such a surge if it's before Christmas.

Also, Alewife-Park would also need to be handled at some point. MIT's last day of fall finals is December 22 and spring classes start February 5. Harvard and Lesley (also on the Red Line) both end finals on December 20 and both have spring classes starting January 22. I don't know exactly how long they would need for a surge but I'd be okay with doing an Alewife-Park surge surge. I guess we will see what this weekend's closure from Alewife to Kendall is able to do, but it's clear that weekends and early access for the giant backlog on the Red Line have not been working due to the whack-a-mole nature that is derived from the track inspections.

I wonder if a big Alewife-JFK surge might be feasible centered around New Year's. Depends on shuttle bus availability, laborer availability, and how the work can be planned.

Finally, I do think a Braintree surge might happen at some point too, but there has definitely been progress of late (most notably a huge reduction of trip times this week from JFK to North Quincy) and perhaps they can slog away with night work there given the amount of weekends and nights the Braintree branch has been closed for in relation to the rest of the Red Line.

 

[bigeman312]

Not an expert on when they prefer to schedule diversions, there is no good time for a diversion, but the few days prior to Christmas can be big travel days (not as much as Thanksgiving) and not running trains into South Station seems like a bad idea.

I picked this stretch because it is historically the lowest ridership two week stretch on the Red Line every year. I examined the data before posting my comment. Would you like a source?

 

[JeffDowntown]

I picked this stretch because it is historically the lowest ridership two week stretch on the Red Line every year. I examined the data before posting my comment. Would you like a source?

I suspect the City of Boston would like trains running for First Night. Not a good night to encourage more driving.

 

[bigeman312]

I suspect the City of Boston would like trains running for First Night. Not a good night to encourage more driving.

That’s a really good point.

 

[Teban54]

NIMBYs in Marblehead are, unsurprisingly, raising concerns about the Commuter Rail rezoning:

At MBTA-zoning meeting, residents raise concerns over impacts to schools, traffic - Marblehead Current

***Thursday, Nov. 2, at 6:30 p.m.: The Planning Board holds its second public meeteing on the new zoning mandate. It will be held in-person at the Veterans School Performing Arts Center. More than 150 people Zoomed into a virtual public meeting Oct. 26 to discuss new state zoning requirements...

marbleheadcurrent.org

“This will affect the character of the town. This will affect traffic and will affect the schools,” Thomas Peach wrote in the chat. “It will not matter where it goes in town. Unlike larger towns we have no ‘disused’ areas suitable to this sort of development.”

“For many reasons, I recommend spreading several districts across the town; to minimize traffic, putting at least one zone near the Salam or Swampscott line,” wrote someone named Nancy.

Some argued the mandate should be opposed entirely, and one resident suggested the town join a lawsuit to stop the mandate’s implementation.

 

[bigeman312]

Red Line Data Update through 11/5/2023

• The last four days were the fastest four median Ashmont Branch round trip days since at least 2021:
  • 16:41 on Thursday (11/2/23)
    • Fastest day on record!
  • 16:48 on Friday (11/3/23)
    • Fifth fastest day on record.
  • 17:06 on Saturday (11/4/23)
  • 16:56 on Sunday (11/5/23)

We are now seeing travel times on the Ashmont Branch that are as fast or faster than even the lowest-low COVID ridership days.

Unfortunately, the rest of the Red Line needs a lot of work to achieve a similar status.

 

[bakgwailo]

I guess running 20 minute headways means the ashmont can run super fast, even if the rest of the line is dog slow. Really hope they can get the headways better sometime soon.

 

[bigeman312]

I guess running 20 minute headways means the ashmont can run super fast, even if the rest of the line is dog slow. Really hope they can get the headways better sometime soon.

In a perfect world, I’d love to see good headways and full speed. That being said, I hope they continue prioritizing slow zone rectification for now. Ridership on the Red Line is relatively abysmal and the slow zones have been a greater deterrent than the headways over the past 10 months, in my estimation.

The best order of operations should be:

Fix the slow zones -> watch the ridership increase -> improve the headways.

 

[notthemonthaugust]

In a perfect world, I’d love to see good headways and full speed. That being said, I hope they continue prioritizing slow zone rectification for now. Ridership on the Red Line is relatively abysmal and the slow zones have been a greater deterrent than the headways over the past 10 months, in my estimation.

The best order of operations should be:

Fix the slow zones -> watch the ridership increase -> improve the headways.

I'd actually say headways are at least as big of an issue as slow zones. I know multiple people who have changed jobs and/or moved away, specifically along the southern branches, who have explicitly cited train frequency and commute time as the main drivers. These complaints existed before all the slow zones really hit when we still had poor headways, I think the prolonged slow zones were the nail in the coffin. In one case someone commented to me "if the red line is going to have commuter rail frequencies and travel time, I might as well live outside Boston where at least I can have more space." I'm not sure I fully agree with that sentiment (maybe a little hyperbolic), but the point is there.

People will put up for abysmal service for only so long before they find alternate means. Unfortunately I think we're well passed that tipping point. Fixing slow zones only partially solves the problem - and if your goal is the grow the area but you plan your headways over current usage, you will never see the growth you're seeking. You have to plan for what you want to see, and only then will people come.

I guess I agree slow zones are "more important " than headways in as much as you can't have good headways without also fixing the slow zones. But beyond that, they are both critical issues to solve in my mind.

 

[bigeman312]

I'd actually say headways are at least as big of an issue as slow zones. I know multiple people who have changed jobs and/or moved away, specifically along the southern branches, who have explicitly cited train frequency and commute time as the main drivers. These complaints existed before all the slow zones really hit when we still had poor headways, I think the prolonged slow zones were the nail in the coffin. In one case someone commented to me "if the red line is going to have commuter rail frequencies and travel time, I might as well live outside Boston where at least I can have more space." I'm not sure I fully agree with that sentiment (maybe a little hyperbolic), but the point is there.

People will put up for abysmal service for only so long before they find alternate means. Unfortunately I think we're well passed that tipping point. Fixing slow zones only partially solves the problem - and if your goal is the grow the area but you plan your headways over current usage, you will never see the growth you're seeking. You have to plan for what you want to see, and only then will people come.

I guess I agree slow zones are "more important " than headways in as much as you can't have good headways without also fixing the slow zones. But beyond that, they are both critical issues to solve in my mind.

Good points. We can certainly agree that both are critical to fix. However. I’m of the opinion that if given the (awful) choice between fast, infrequent service or slow, frequent service, people will choose fast, infrequent service. I do agree that both slow speeds and long headways have contributed to people abandoning the Red Line and it will be a long road back, though.

At its best in recent years, the trip from Alewife to JFK/UMASS was 24 minutes with 4 minute headways. At its worst, in September, the trip from Alewife to JFK/UMass was 54 minutes with 15 minute headways.

What I’m saying is that it’s better for that trip to take 24 minutes with 15 minute headways (fixing the slow zones) than to take 54 minutes with 4 minute headways (fixing the headways).

Obviously we need both. But the more pressing issue right now is the slow zones. If we have to pick our poison, the slow zones have been abysmally bad to the point of being more prohibitive than the headways (which are also bad). Does that make sense?

 

[Jahvon09]

Downtown Service on the Green Line's C & D branches are finally fixed at Kenmore!!

MSN

 

[Teban54]

I’m of the opinion that if given the (awful) choice between fast, infrequent service or slow, frequent service, people will choose fast, infrequent service.

A somewhat extreme example: Boston Landing vs the 57 bus for Allston. The success of Boston Landing shows that people do prefer an 18-min ride to South Station despite its irregular and (somewhat) infrequent schedule.

However, I'm not sure if this applies to the topic at hand because:

• The time difference on the Red Line is probably not as drastic as commuter rail vs. bus.
• Commuter rail has fixed schedules, whereas schedules for the Red Line are not nearly as easily accessible beforehand. In addition, people expect rapid transit to be turn-up-and-go, unlike commuter rail.

On the other hand, I'm not sure if you can add more trains on the Red Line until more CRRCs arrive, given the deterioration of the old fleet. That may make the whole comparison moot.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

On the other hand, I'm not sure if you can add more trains on the Red Line until more CRRCs arrive, given the deterioration of the old fleet. That may make the whole comparison moot.

The fleet is duct-taped for sure, but keeping up. The second set of CRRC's going into service covers depletion in the 01500/01600/01700 ranks, and there's only 2 Bombardiers out-of-service.

It's mainly the slow zones and possibly a little bit the operator shortage that are hammering RL service levels at present.