Delvin4519
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Detailed presentation about the fiscal cliff posted by the MBTA today:
Detailed presentation about the fiscal cliff posted by the MBTA today:
FWIW, when I was there last weekend, the whole area between Blandford St and BU East was still cordoned off.And if its so simple to turn a train, why are the trains not terminating at for example, Blandford Street, since they don't seem to be working on that chunk of track every day anyway?
Very seldom-used switches often aren't automatic, especially on the Green Line surface where it's outside the realm of the signal system. Frequently-used turnbacks (Brigham Circle, Heath inner vs. outer loop) can auto-fire switches by powering through or coasting through the associated overhead wire, but there are failure modes attached to that so it's only deployed in the essential places. Blandford St. yard requires an inspector to manually switch out of this inspector's hut. All the other emergency- or service outage-only turnback crossovers on the B/C/E I believe are hand-throw.Took a B train that terminated at Packard's Corner and saw a track worker doing what appeared to be manually switching the track once the train passed by so it could cross to the right hand track. I know nothing about railroad ops, can someone educate me why this is the case? I thought switches were automatic?
And if its so simple to turn a train, why are the trains not terminating at for example, Blandford Street, since they don't seem to be working on that chunk of track every day anyway?
The Brigham Circle switch is hand throw and the Heath outer loop is rarely used, but also hand throw. We're not allowed to slap switches by coasting through them anymore. I believe Blandford, Reservoir, and East Somerville are the only switches that are outside of the subway but also not at/near a terminal station to be automated, but I'd have to double check.Very seldom-used switches often aren't automatic, especially on the Green Line surface where it's outside the realm of the signal system. Frequently-used turnbacks (Brigham Circle, Heath inner vs. outer loop) can auto-fire switches by powering through or coasting through the associated overhead wire, but there are failure modes attached to that so it's only deployed in the essential places. Blandford St. yard requires an inspector to manually switch out of this inspector's hut. All the other emergency- or service outage-only turnback crossovers on the B/C/E I believe are hand-throw.
Blandford siding is presently out of service due to a switch issue, which is why these diversions have had trains crossing back at Naples (the switch between Babcock and Packards) instead of the Blandford siding. (cc: @Longfellow )FWIW, when I was there last weekend, the whole area between Blandford St and BU East was still cordoned off.
Even during past service changes when they terminated trains at this vicinity, the last inbound stop was usually BU East. Sometimes they allow outbound boarding at Blandford, and sometimes they don't (IIRC).
I saw that too. I dont think the T said they'll remove all restrictions. Maybe these could possibly be handled during night work?Some serious problems have been left behind in the wake of the monthlong Green Line Central Subway Tunnel track repairs. https://www.mbta.com/performance-metrics/speed-restrictions
The MBTA left behind 2 speed restrictions at 5 MPH (8KMH), 1,300 ft (400m) long, between North Station and Government Center in the Southbound/Westbound direction.
The MBTA has NO future diversion planned between Government Center and Science Park. The only nearby diversion after the monthlong January 2024 closure; is a North Station - Lechmere shutdown after Election Day 2024, which has no overlap in the 2 slow zones between Government Center and North Station.
What is the MBTA's plan to lift these 2 speed restrictions between North Station and Government Center? The MBTA had a whole month in January to fix the slowzones between North Station and Gov't Ctr, yet they were not placed in the queue when they had a monthlong access during the January 2024 closure. Now that the closure has passed and 12 speed restrictions were lifted "as planned", the T has NO plan to repair the remaining 2 slow zones between North Station and Government Center. Every other speed restriction is slated on the MBTA's timetables for repairs by January 1st, 2025. It's not in the diversion calendar post-January 2024 with no future diversion in this area planned. These 2 speed restrictions were seemingly left behind.
The original daytime closure of the Lechmere Viaduct was cancelled back in December 2023, after the MBTA seemingly had problems turning back streetcars at Lechmere. I would assume that the North Station, Haymarket, and Gov't Ctr turnbacks would all need to be closed in order for slow zone track repairs to take place between North Station and Gov't Ctr. It just seems like the T compleely forgot that these 2 slowzones existed.
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You can do most stuff during night work, the question is how long it takes to do overnight vs with dedicated closures. But for Gov Center to North Station southbound, I have to imagine the time savings to be had are pretty minimal due to the very short station spacing and tight curves, and therefore this section was the first to get pushed back to night work when something came up in the central subway that needed more man-hours than expected.I saw that too. Could possibly be handled during night work?
1300 ft (400m) of slowzone at 5 mph (8 kmh) is 180 seconds (3 minutes) of travel time. If the design speed is 10 mph (16 kmh), there is a 1.5 minute time savings (1.5 min travel time). A 15 mph design speed (24 kmh) is a 2 minute time savings (1 min travel time). If a roundtrip on the E takes 95 - 105 minutes, and if there's 1.75 minutes of slowzone left over, that will still cost 2 - 3 roundtrips off the daily schedule (150 -> 147/119 -> 117 daily trips), lengthening headways between streetcars by 11 - 17 seconds. Not insignificant.You can do most stuff during night work, the question is how long it takes to do overnight vs with dedicated closures. But for Gov Center to North Station southbound, I have to imagine the time savings to be had are pretty minimal due to the very short station spacing and tight curves, and therefore this section was the first to get pushed back to night work when something came up in the central subway that needed more man-hours than expected.
But this is how transit agencies always work. Repairs can only get done in a few hours in the middle of the night. The T worked alright for decades doing this. Other transit agencies do it too. It's also possible to close the line early a night or two, depending what is needed.If the trains are still running at 2:08 a.m., how could the MBTA possibly get any overnight work in? The Green Line has to start service up again at 4:45 a.m.
Can I ask for a source on this, other than the fact that they're not on the current schedule? As others have stated, this could be work they can do during nightly shutdowns, or they're still trying to figure out a good place to fit another multiday shutdown in, or they're just planning to address it in 2025....the T has NO plan to repair the remaining 2 slow zones between North Station and Government Center.
Remember the time when you were saying the exact same thing about the Lechmere Viaduct, that there will certainly not be any actions taken until November 2024, just because the T wasn't scheduling any closures? That they will definitely become the longest-lasting slow zone in the system, or that the T forgot they existed?The MBTA has NO future diversion planned between Science Park and Park St.. The only nearby diversion after the monthlong January 2024 closure; is a North Station - Lechmere shutdown after Election Day 2024, which has no overlap in the 2 slow zones between Government Center and North Station.
What is the MBTA's plan to lift these 2 speed restrictions between North Station and Government Center? The MBTA had a whole month in January to fix the slowzones between North Station and Gov't Ctr, yet they were not placed in the queue when they had a monthlong access during the January 2024 closure. Now that the closure has passed and 12 speed restrictions were lifted "as planned", the T has NO plan to repair the remaining 2 slow zones between North Station and Government Center. Every other speed restriction is slated on the MBTA's timetables for repairs by January 1st, 2025. It's not in the diversion calendar post-January 2024 with no future diversion in this area planned. These 2 speed restrictions were seemingly left behind.
The primary issue is the fact that they aren't on the current schedule. Also note the MBTA has a fiscal cliff shortfall for FY25, so everything after this summer is in uncertainity.Can I ask for a source on this, other than the fact that they're not on the current schedule? As others have stated, this could be work they can do during nightly shutdowns, or they're still trying to figure out a good place to fit another multiday shutdown in, or they're just planning to address it in 2025.
Remember the time when you were saying the exact same thing about the Lechmere Viaduct, that there will certainly not be any actions taken until November 2024, just because the T wasn't scheduling any closures? That they will definitely become the longest-lasting slow zone in the system, or that the T forgot they existed?
Just 1-2 months later, there are no more slow zones on the Lechmere Viaduct, according to the MBTA speed restrictions dashboard.
The plan for closures and repairs is just that: a plan. They can be adjusted if needed. New full-time closures that were not planned in November 2023 can be scheduled, weekend and night closures can take place, and repairs can also be done during non-revenue hours (like they're planning on the Blue Line).
Also, note that tracks between North Station and Haymarket are needed to turn GLX trains at North Station efficiently. If that section needs to be closed, you can only rely on the North Station yard, which will then draw complaints about each GLX branch having 25-min headways.
The reason those slides don't show updated plans for the last couple slow zones is those slides are from Jan 25th. It says so in the bottom right of one of your screenshots. The GL was still closed on the 25th, and work was still being done. They didn't yet know for sure what would get finished during the closure.The MBTA does not have any "night order" designation for the 2 GL slow zones between North Station and Government Center in the slides, nor a full diversion anywhere planned announced publicly.
The slides mentioned that the track repairs would lift 12 slow zones between January 16 and January 29. 12 slow zones were lifted this morning. This seems to be something that was known long beforehand if the slides state that 12 slow zones would be addressed as part of this closure. They probably knew 2 slow zones would be left behind, yet were not placed on the calendar year 2024 schedule accordingly.The reason those slides don't show updated plans for the last couple slow zones is those slides are from Jan 25th. It says so in the bottom right of one of your screenshots. The GL was still closed on the 25th, and work was still being done. They didn't yet know for sure what would get finished during the closure.
The GL closure ended yesterday. More accurately, it ended about 4:30 this morning, so the track has only been open again for about 12 hours. It's fine and reasonable that they haven't devised and announced an new schedule in those 12 hours. I don't think they've forgotten about it. And I'm willing to give them at least a few business days to organize their next steps to fix the remaining couple of slow zones.
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