General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

[OldColony]

They just announced the massive 24 day closure of the Braintree branch in September:
Link
The really interesting thing in the announcement is a stated longer-term goal of raising red line MAS above 40mph which is very intriguing. Does anyone know when the last time the red line ran above 40 (if there ever was a time)?

Bradley H. Clark's 1972 book South Shore Quincy - Boston, celebrating the 1971 opening of the Quincy Red Line extension, does not explicitly list the track speed limits on the extension. The book does state, however, the "South Shore Cars" built by Pullman-Standard (015xx - 016xx series) were designed for a max speed of 70 m.p.h.

 

[TheRatmeister]

They just announced the massive 24 day closure of the Braintree branch in September:
Link
The really interesting thing in the announcement is a stated longer-term goal of raising red line MAS above 40mph which is very intriguing. Does anyone know when the last time the red line ran above 40 (if there ever was a time)?

Until relatively recently there were 50MPH sections on the Braintree branch.

 

[ulrichomega]

Is there any sort of map showing the maximum theoretical speeds (given track geometry, curves, etc.) achievable on the system? As in, if the cars supported it, maintenance weren't an issue, and signals/etc. were sufficient. What's the ceiling here, and what are we currently getting?

 

[Teban54]

They just announced the massive 24 day closure of the Braintree branch in September:
Link
The really interesting thing in the announcement is a stated longer-term goal of raising red line MAS above 40mph which is very intriguing. Does anyone know when the last time the red line ran above 40 (if there ever was a time)?

This also reminds me of how people were saying the Lechmere Viaduct was designed for 50 mph. If the increase in speed limit on the Red Line is successful, maybe it will pave way to similar treatments on other parts of the system like this?

 

[Stlin]

Is there any sort of map showing the maximum theoretical speeds (given track geometry, curves, etc.) achievable on the system? As in, if the cars supported it, maintenance weren't an issue, and signals/etc. were sufficient. What's the ceiling here, and what are we currently getting?

I have a copy of the Red Line Track chart from ~2016, but it's speed section is blank. But I do have an undated copy of a track profile that does include the ATO speeds, probably dating to the 70s when the extensions were built. I'll attach a PDF to this post (it'll be somewhat compressed so it'll fit). you want to look at the line at the bottom where it's labeled ATO speed commands - in short, there's quite a few 50mph segments.

I additionally will say that the new CRRC cars were specified for a Max operating speed of 70mph, with a max service speed of 63mph - there's extant encoding in the signal system for up to 60mph aspects, and the OL has segments of up to 55.

Edit: to upload the OL track profile as well.

 

[alewife]

The Technical Provisions (warning: 1,300+ page PDF) for the new Red and Orange Line cars include the route profile diagrams for both lines as an appendix, including speed information. The signaling specs in the document ("ATP & ASR") also include the speed codes used on each line, which top out at 55 mph on the Orange Line and 60 mph on the Red Line.

 

[Teban54]

The Technical Provisions (warning: 1,300+ page PDF) for the new Red and Orange Line cars include the route profile diagrams for both lines as an appendix, including speed information. The signaling specs in the document ("ATP & ASR") also include the speed codes used on each line, which top out at 55 mph on the Orange Line and 60 mph on the Red Line.

Thanks!!

While we're on this topic, does anyone know if similar specifications exist for the Green and Blue lines (and possibly the Silver Line Transitway tunnel), either about their cars or route profiles? I've been trying to find information such as minimum turning radius (particularly for BL) and maximum grade (for both lines), but hadn't had any luck yet.

 

[Stlin]

Thanks!!

While we're on this topic, does anyone know if similar specifications exist for the Green and Blue lines (and possibly the Silver Line Transitway tunnel), either about their cars or route profiles? I've been trying to find information such as minimum turning radius (particularly for BL) and maximum grade (for both lines), but hadn't had any luck yet.

If you dig deep into the new red and orange car spec, which is where I extracted the track profiles from, they include details on the blue line dynamic envelope as well as track geometry. I have the track charts for both Green and Blue - I'll upload them momentarily as an edit to this post - but I haven't seen anything for the SL.

Edit: Uploaded. For the sake of completeness I've included a copy of one for each line. I couldn't quite get the 2017 GL file small enough, so that one is in pieces - sorry!

 

[bakgwailo]

At least on the Braintree branch there is actual parallel rail service with the CR that can help alleviate a bit of the pain of a month long shutdown.

 

[as02143]

At least on the Braintree branch there is actual parallel rail service with the CR that can help alleviate a bit of the pain of a month long shutdown.

i don't think there's enough capacity there to provide true parallel service tho.

 

[bigeman312]

Any chance the MBTA could provide a Braintree - Quincy Center - JFK/UMass ( - and possibly South Station) shuttle train akin to the one that’s currently provided Porter - North Station?

 

[bakgwailo]

i don't think there's enough capacity there to provide true parallel service tho.

Fully agree - but still better than nothing but shuttle buses.

 

[Stlin]

In other news, the House and Senate finally agreed on the FY25 budget. Relevant to the T is that they've included $447M for the MBTA, and $204m for the RTAs to launch fare free services. Important to note that it's not all additional - the T's own FY25 budget planned for $314m in state assistance, which means there's really only $133m extra, if I've read the article correctly.

"The budget includes plans to dedicate $447 million to the MBTA beyond the share the cash-strapped agency already receives of state sales tax revenue. The funding is no panacea, however: The T approved a $3 billion budget for the current fiscal year that requires that the agency drain its entire rainy day fund just to cover day-to-day expenses. The plan also includes $204 million in funding for the state’s 15 regional transit agencies, including money to allow them to provide fare-free bus service. Currently, some systems, such as Merrimack Valley Transit and the Worcester Regional Transit Authority, offer free rides, but not all."

Free community college. Fare-free regional transit. Shelter funding. Hereâs whatâs in the $58 billion budget deal. - The Boston Globe

More than two weeks after the fiscal year began, Massachusetts lawmakers reached a deal on a $58 billion state budget plan.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[CheapLeak]

In other news, the House and Senate finally agreed on the FY25 budget. Relevant to the T is that they've included $447M for the MBTA, and $204m for the RTAs to launch fare free services. Important to note that it's not all additional - the T's own FY25 budget planned for $314m in state assistance, which means there's really only $133m extra, if I've read the article correctly.

Free community college. Fare-free regional transit. Shelter funding. Hereâs whatâs in the $58 billion budget deal. - The Boston Globe

More than two weeks after the fiscal year began, Massachusetts lawmakers reached a deal on a $58 billion state budget plan.

www.bostonglobe.com

Is the T’s planned FY25 budget similar to the planed service reduction in 2021 or will it maintain current service levels?

 

[Stlin]

Is the T’s planned FY25 budget similar to the planed service reduction in 2021 or will it maintain current service levels?

FYI FY25 already started. The state fiscal year runs July 1 - June 30. While the T intends to find 93m in savings, it intends to run full service as it exists today, and continue its hiring initiatives but it's relying on 307M in piggy banked federal COVID dollars to balance it's budget, completely using that up. For FY26 it's proforma shows it'll have a deficit of 696M, which everyone has been calling the fiscal cliff. (A large part of the increase in expenses is being driven by safety and service initiatives) Hopefully this new money allows the T to smooth it somewhat.

 

[KCasiglio]

Any chance the MBTA could provide a Braintree - Quincy Center - JFK/UMass ( - and possibly South Station) shuttle train akin to the one that’s currently provided Porter - North Station?

Not familiar enough with the ops to say for certain but I would imagine it would be impossible to run a meaningful number of shuttles on an already busy single track.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Not familiar enough with the ops to say for certain but I would imagine it would be impossible to run a meaningful number of shuttles on an already busy single track.

There's also already trains every half hour or better between Quincy Center and South Station which makes it less important, that was the goal the Porter shuttle was trying to achieve so I'm not sure why we should expect anything else here.

 

[nbcoram]

The Orange Line shutdown that was planned for August 2024 between Oak Grove and North Station is no longer the MBTA's plan anymore!

Instead the Red Line has a new shutdown for the same time slot.

August Service Changes: MBTA Continues Repair Work to Improve Reliability Across the System | News | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

This means instead of making the Orange Line faster than it was before the monthlong shutdown in summer 2022, the Orange Line will remain slower than it was prior to the summer 2022 monthlong shutdown for over 2 years!!! Until they reschedule the repairs to slow zones between NS and Oak Grove.

N. Station - Oak Grove is being tentatively rescheduled to mid-fall, directly after a Back Bay - Forest Hills surge.

Could they finally be fixing the Park/Charles slow zones? Those are so bad that I'd consider that a worthy tradeoff.

I hope so. Looking at the latest internal schedule there is a Harvard-Park surge tentatively planned before Thanksgiving though...... Hopefully the August surge can speed things up and then the fall one is just SOGR stuff.

 

[KCasiglio]

With the Transit app and other real time tracking information still being down, I wonder how much it impacts people's decision to take transit (particularly thinking about low frequency bus routes).

 

[Longfellow]

Am I crazy or is this (Nortth station northbound) sign new?