General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

Aprehensive_Words said:
Does anyone know if this study might be looking at adding a commuter rail stop at Newton Corner?


It's not obvious from the documents posted so far.
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There's new Newton Corner working group that met the first time this year, and someone at least mentioned looking into a Newton Corner station (page 8). And if you're interested, TransitMatters mentioned it as a good possibility in their report on upgrading the Worcester line.

But pretty broadly, no, it doesn't look like the working group is really looking into a new commuter rail stop. That can change, especially if the public brings it up. But now they're mostly looking at traffic flows and pedestrian safety.
 
On the one hand, hopefully any work they do can leave provisions for a station down the line (maybe even with room for an express track??), but on the other hand I'm not sure if there were any substantial changes from any of the other studies going back to 2006, so maybe it's good they're not studying a station.
 
Yeah. It seems like updates to the wheel-o-death that don't take pedestrian access to a future station into consideration could very well make one semi-unusable. Or at least turn into a good way of lighting money on fire.
 
ulrichomega said:
Curiosity? That's my question? How much is this actually costing (from both a capital and operational perspective) and how much would it cost to fix?
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They're studying it because the overhead infrastructure is nearing end-of-life and is due for a major top-down refurbishment in the next decade. So they'll be buying an a mostly all-new electrification contact system one way or another. The study aims to quantify whether a lateral trade to third rail is worth a slight cost premium for simplification purposes. Third rail does have a big advantage in durability...no downed or worn-out wire, no need to send the wire inspection train out several times a week.

This is all wadded up in the studies for Blue Line Transformation, which also aims to update the signal system to something state-of-the-art, shrink headways down to 3 minutes, expand the fleet, and undertake a bunch of climate resiliency projects.
 
The cars are approaching 20 years old, so I assume the replacements will go out for bid in 2-3 years.
 
As of 2021, the MBTA's plans are for the procurement process to start in 2027, contract awarded in 2029, and arrivals from 2032 to 2036. The new fleet would be 130 (versus 94 current), which should be able to handle frequency increases and RBX. I'm personally a bit surprised that there's not plans for a midlife overhaul given that they've been relatively decent so far.

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The EGE said:
As of 2021, the MBTA's plans are for the procurement process to start in 2027, contract awarded in 2029, and arrivals from 2032 to 2036. The new fleet would be 130 (versus 94 current), which should be able to handle frequency increases and RBX. I'm personally a bit surprised that there's not plans for a midlife overhaul given that they've been relatively decent so far.

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I think if Red-Blue happens in the next 5 years it sort of makes sense. Rebuilding 94 48.5' cars probably isn't that much less than buying 70 60' cars in a 1-for-1 replacement.

It does sort of seem like the mid-2030s is a prime time to build out to Lynn though.
 
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So 2028 is probably the drop dead date for choosing to renew the OCS or scrap it.
 
737900er said:
I think if Red-Blue happens in the next 5 years it sort of makes sense. Rebuilding 94 48.5' cars probably isn't that much less than buying 70 60' cars in a 1-for-1 replacement.

It does sort of seem like the mid-2030s is a prime time to build out to Lynn though.
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Would 60’ cars even be possible even with the loop closed? I feel like we should model them after Paris. Make them slightly longer and add another set of doors.
 
CheapLeak said:
Would 60’ cars even be possible even with the loop closed? I feel like we should model them after Paris. Make them slightly longer and add another set of doors.
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IIRC, @F-Line to Dudley said before that the bottleneck after Bowdoin is gone would be the State St curve, but he also said it was modifiable.
 
Teban54 said:
IIRC, @F-Line to Dudley said before that the bottleneck after Bowdoin is gone would be the State St curve, but he also said it was modifiable.
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State curve is what you'd have to treat to get exact Orange Line 65' train lengths. The majority of the difference between 48'6" and that is Bowdoin, however. So even without modding State you should be able to get most of the way there.
 
TheRatmeister said:
Or make the trains walk-through and slightly more bendy and then you're basically all the way there.
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Orange-length cars would represent a 25% seating increase over current Blue consists, which combined with BLT's 3-minute headway target is a couple generations worth of growth-and-expansion swallower. Honestly, the loading isn't anywhere near severe enough for the premium of open gangway cars to make sense for this next procurement. Maybe the procurement after that if Lynn/Salem are on the board and we're mulling Kenmore.
 
ant8904 said:
I don't know if they so silo-ed but I think it's reasonable to speculate there different gears going on. Frank retired from the MBTA years ago now, so it's not like people would remember just by seeing him in the office. Someone has to deliberately remember and contact him to bring him in. But the MBTA is a big organization along with being retired for years. Probably many at this point are not aware or don't care he's the voice. I can easily imagine someone who still remembers would take the effort to bring him in, but another just stipulate to read things out with a computer.
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The MBTA isn't all that big once you get up to the upper brass. Everyone knows everybody the closer you get to the top. Everybody at 45 High Street knew Mr. O and its not unusual when brand new to be shown around the office to be known amongst the "gang". I've handed him his inter office mail on occasion when I was shown around.
a lot of T brass also keep in touch with other current and or former T people. It's a necessity because the ideas around the MBTA are usually recycled. And it's not long before you'll want to reach out and say something like... "hay long time. Remember that winter when the system had x-y--z problem? Do you remember why we didn't go with option a-b-c? It's being brought up again but I remember you had a boat load of problems and I want to avoid doing this again if I can and I know you had it figured out." LoL and before long they'll usually tell you the 3 or 4 years it was tried sometime inthe past if they are a long timer and why it won't work still.
 
Aprehensive_Words said:
Does anyone know if this study might be looking at adding a commuter rail stop at Newton Corner?


It's not obvious from the documents posted so far.
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First thought is- if you Commuter Rail-ize Newtown corner you'll cannibalize the 502 and 504 express buses of ridership if they're still around? It might make the 57 shaker too in terms of ridership? And if it falls off to much it'll probably be on the chopping block to cut that bus route.
 
The EGE said:
As of 2021, the MBTA's plans are for the procurement process to start in 2027, contract awarded in 2029, and arrivals from 2032 to 2036. The new fleet would be 130 (versus 94 current), which should be able to handle frequency increases and RBX. I'm personally a bit surprised that there's not plans for a midlife overhaul given that they've been relatively decent so far.

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Seems soo quick. *I would say (I am only speaking for myself) overhaul them. I mean how long were these trains parked up in Medford at the orange line station for testing before being pressed into service? They didn't immediately reach only for them to a get pressed into service when the Mbta got them. They spent a large amount of time in Wellington Station.
 
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