Graffiti Images, Art, or Nuisance

Suffolk 83

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Re: Pike Pictures (Not Pretty)

From Boston...











I'd argue there are many commuters that are white collar proffesionals that enjoy staring into works of art while their train is at a standstill or their car in dead in traffic..
 

vanshnookenraggen

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Re: Pike Pictures (Not Pretty)

I've moved this thread cause it really stopped being about the Pike and instead about graffiti.
 

yigal

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I don't think anyone's arguing that graffiti cannot be art. Nothing makes a paintbrush on canvas superior to spraypaint on a wall. The disagreement is about the legitimacy of unsolicited graffiti, that's all.
 

Suffolk 83

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No one asked for the grafitti shown, you arguments have been elitist at best. I can't really find a good reason to be so against such a thing... Ignore it. Otherwise your arguments are saying much more about you than what your arguing.
 

czsz

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Yigal, I think ablarc was pretty blatant in his attempt to distinguish graffiti from art (by using the worst and best examples of the common associations we make with both).

To answer your earlier question, I would adopt what legal scholars call a new default rule. The current presumption is that we should not allow unsolicited art on public property without prior approval. Effectively, this forces "experts" to judge whatever art is proposed for a given surface or area, and delegitimates the (extraordinary amount of) art that then gets created extrajudicially. Instead, I would propose that review of unsolicited art created in public space be done after the fact. This would militate against prima facie biases against works of art that the "experts" would have been inclined to reject initially, but are comfortable enough with to leave unremoved - because of the prohibitive cost of removal.

This would not only encourage more artists painting on walls, but it provides an incentive to them to make this art transcend a mere tag - because their work can achieve relative immortality - and, yes, they might even start a Basquiatesque career. It would free the police to deal with real crimes, and it would lower the cost of removal.

Briv brings up a good point in response - how far do we let artists go? I offered that physical destruction that impedes the purpose or use of the surface being transformed by art might be the limit. But he's right to note that we might lose other art - i.e. the gargoyles on the Longfellow - in the process. I might go so far as to exclude performances that result in the destruction of a similarly-protected creative works. It would be hypocritical of me to argue that the state should be so restrained in its treatment of unsolicited public art, but that artists could go to town on each others' work.
 

yigal

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I think the problem with your suggestion is that it would in effect legalize all graffiti and we would see a huge increase in instances of kids spraying their initials or gang name or whatever -- all that random tagging I suppose neither of us would like to see. Right now there is at least a minor deterrence in it being illegal.

Also, you cannot expect these people to confine themselves to public property. Do you suppose they will consult the city registry before committing their work?

I dread thinking about what would happen should mayor Menino publicly declare something along the lines of your proposal.
 
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Lurker

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The world is NOT everyone's free for all canvas. Museums , your mom's refrigerator, your living room, etc. don't just let ANYONE put up their 'artwork' without permission do they? Unsolicited graffiti is vandalism and outright theft of personal or public property. Think of how much money has to be spent by property owners and taxpayers to clean up after these jerks, whom were too damn cheap to buy or make their own canvas legally.
 

Beton Brut

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Just to throw some spice in the pot (bearing in mind, I see both sides of the argument), is graffiti a form of political speech (the act, as well as the content)? Do people feel differently about graffiti if it has some political content, or functions as a counterweight to the mass media's presentation of (real or perceived) social injustice? Think about the Berlin Wall. Think about post-Katrina New Orleans.

When speaking about hip hop in general, Chuck D once said, "Public Enemy is the Black CNN." Acknowledging that graffiti is an integral part of hip hop culture, is it then analogous to say...The Utne Reader, or Harpers?

And folks, please don't call me an intellectual -- I'm just a city kid who got to read some books and then took the time to think about them.
 

statler

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Is America the only country in which "intellectual" is a derogatory term?
 

Lurker

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"Just to throw some spice in the pot (bearing in mind, I see both sides of the argument), is graffiti a form of political speech (the act, as well as the content)? Do people feel differently about graffiti if it has some political content, or functions as a counterweight to the mass media's presentation of (real or perceived) social injustice? Think about the Berlin Wall."

You have right to life, liberty, and property according to the constitution, until your pursuit of such rights infringe upon the equal rights' of others. Trashing someone's private property for your speech is thus infringement. However, one could make the case that objects such as the Berlin Wall already violate the right to liberty, and thus could be defaced in acts responding to the alienation of one's constitutional right. I'd be very careful classifying graffiti as political speech, as the appropriateness clause always comes into effect. You don't want a tagger to be able to justify blatant and selfish vandalism as political speech, nor do you want neo-nazis, communists, anarchists, the KKK, Birch society, Black Panthers, gangs, ect. defacing entire neighborhoods as protected political speech.

"Is America the only country in which "intellectual" is a derogatory term? "

It is in any country that has a class of elitist snobs whom get off unconstructively criticizing or outright hating every cultural value or bit of history their country has. Any fool who goes to university and immediately believe it is their sworn duty to tear down their entire civilization because they understand how to do it as one of the self proclaimed erudite betters, more so than the filthy masses, deserves some perspective from the gulag. The utter contempt for the average person harbored by those perched in the lofty ivory tower has become quite appalling.

I'd recommend researching Gramscian damage and marxist teaching at Western Universities from 1930-1970. The KGB and her predecessors were heavily involved in courting intellectuals to teach future generations of westerners to essentially question, loathe, and guilt their nations into self submitting states to the point that the USSR could easily roll over them. Follow the money trail of CPUSA and WWP over the years, through their major spinoffs, organizers, fundraisers, and political initiatives for some whoppers.
 

Suffolk 83

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legalizing grafitti might actually lower it... Its like marijuana, part of the appeal for young'uns to smoke weed is that its illegal but they know they can usually get away with it. Grafitti is the same.
 

Lurker

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One other issue regarding the legalization of graffiti, I hadn't thought of, was what would happen with insurance policies. Right now some types of property insurance cover removal, if it were legalized, that might take away some of the grounds by which insurance could be provided due to unlawful behavior.
 

Lrfox

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I still really don't know what to think of graffiti, but take from this what you like.

"Graffiti Earns Appreciation as Art Form" from New Bedford:

By SEAN McCARTHY
Standard-Times correspondent
October 23, 2008 6:00 AM
Most Viewed Stories


There was something unique about Brown University's most recent graduation ? something that hasn't been done at any other Ivy League universities.

As the soon-to-be doctors and lawyers walked across the podium to receive their diplomas, their backdrop was a spacious barrage of colors and designs, illustrations and lettering.

Street art.

Graffiti.

And soon graffiti will be the celebrated feature of two upcoming events in SouthCoast ? an opening reception at Gallery X Saturday evening, and the fourth annual Third EyE Art Auction and Awards Dinner at Century House in Acushnet Nov. 14. The Gallery X show, which opened Wednesday, runs until Nov. 23 and will feature many local artists as well as some from Boston and surrounding areas. The Third EyE event will put works in various sizes from Boston to New York on the auction block....
whole article: http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081023/ENTERTAIN/810230348
 

Beton Brut

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Dunno if this belongs in the events forum -- it's a bit peripheral. So I'm posting it here, as it plays into some of this interesting discussion.

ICA/AIGA Design Series: Design as Social Agent
Saturday, April 04, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM
Bringing together speakers from the fields of design, street art, music, and politics, this day-long event frames Shepard Fairey?s work within the context of grassroots civic action, punk rock, and 80s graffiti and skate culture. Featuring Steve Heller, Elliott Earls, Nicholas Blechman, Caleb Neelon, PIXNIT, and Kevin Grady.
 

Charlie_mta

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Looks like some great "artist" has come back & painted the wall with their marvelous graffiti. Again!! Hah!! :eek:
At least the owner or contractor is painting over the graffiti. I hope that continues after the project is finished.
 

erom

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I hope they consider opening some of the walls up for artwork in an organized fashion. I'm of the opinion that even bad graffiti is better than a blank wall.
 

Ruairi

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I think any graffiti is ugly. It looks too much like the end of a civilized society to me.
I'm somewhere in the middle. I love excellent, well executed, thoughtful graffiti. I like the idea that not all art is inside stuffy buildings but some is outside similar buildings. I also like the idea that good graffiti is not, unlike a lot of public murals, designed by committee.
But I absolutely hate crappy tagging. It's just an ego trip for an idiot. I also get very annoyed at tagging on brand new structures that aren't even finished yet. It shows a complete lack of respect for the work and craftsmanship going in to the structure. These idiots would never tag over a piece of decent graffiti.
If they want to tag a derelict building on it's last legs, have at it, but leave pretty much every other space bare or to people with talent.
 

stick n move

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I feel the same with people who litter. Its not going to magically disappear, someone is going to have to clean it up asshole. So because you cant be bothered to clean up after your own shit now we all have to live with trash on the ground. South bay shopping center is a disaster. Its like come on people, we all have to live here, cut it out.

Its the same with the shitty graffiti. Its not going to magically disappear so now your making it someone elses problem, thats going to have to clean up your shit. Instead of being a burden on other people we should all be responsible for ourselves. If everybody is responsible for themself then society can function pretty smoothly. We shouldnt have to always clean up after the lazy ass people who dont give a shit. Quality graffiti is cool, someone just scribbling their name is stupid and it makes it so now everybody has to live with your stupid name written on the wall. Can you not?
 

HelloBostonHi

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I hope they consider opening some of the walls up for artwork in an organized fashion. I'm of the opinion that even bad graffiti is better than a blank wall.
Something like this would be nice
Screenshot_20210429-174616_Maps.png


That said once the construction access ends, fences go up, and trains are running 20 hours a day I think the graffiti will stop too. Don't see much graffiti on the SW corridor
 

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