Green Line Reconfiguration

It does certainly seem like, one way or the other, you've got to go up or down from the Red Line mezzanine, vs a horizontal move. I agree that a Park-style cross-track ped access point feels like an incident waiting to happen.

Here are the different stairs and elevator shafts that currently exist. Guesstimating, and assuming the GL platforms would have to be accessed via the CR platform, there feels like there should be room to build a larger headhouse that puts both the CR/GL stairs + only suitable elevator position and the Red Line stairs and both elevators behind fare gates, although it would be tight near where Somerville Ave and Mass. Ave come together, assuming the tree protection squad and the historic preservation squad will chain themselves to the tree and the (admittedly iconic) kinetic sculpture at that corner. And, since this rebuild would take place in a world of electrified CR trains, the cut-outs to allow for diesel exhaust can be decked over to make space for things like moving the bike corral (and maybe even a lobby for a housing tower over the site, if Cambridge passes that big expansion to its affordable housing zoning overlay).

porter headhouse.png
 
Porter residents flipped out when Lesley proposed student housing on a deck over the Porter tracks, between Somerville and the Porter Exchange lot. I doubt they have become more understanding in the intervening years.
 
Porter residents flipped out when Lesley proposed student housing on a deck over the Porter tracks, between Somerville and the Porter Exchange lot. I doubt they have become more understanding in the intervening years.

🤦‍♂️

but maybe for the best long term? With an air rights development, l dont see how any GLX to porter gets constructed either above or below the CR….
 
Porter residents flipped out when Lesley proposed student housing on a deck over the Porter tracks, between Somerville and the Porter Exchange lot. I doubt they have become more understanding in the intervening years.
Yeah, I would expect that. That's why my idea of elevating the GL (to Porter and beyond) above the entire mess at Porter would be impossible. The NIMBY outrage would obviously be huge.
 
Porter residents flipped out when Lesley proposed student housing on a deck over the Porter tracks, between Somerville and the Porter Exchange lot. I doubt they have become more understanding in the intervening years.

I’d imagine Porter residents are far more pro-transit than pro-student-housing.
 
(I'm not sure which thread is best for this, so I'll share it in a couple different ones, with comments specific to the topic.)

When I was a child, I read in Trolleys Under The Hub about all the places the "Green Line" used to go. And even though it wasn't called the Green Line then, my young mind was captured by the idea of a Green Line with many more branches. "Not just an A, B, C, D, and E Line, but maybe F, G, H, I, J, K..." Was it a whole alphabet of branches running into the subway? (Even today, I admit it still tickles me a bit to come up with labels for new LRT lines using more letters of the alphabet, as can be seen in this very thread.)

But there was an underlying question for me: so, like, how many branches did the "Green Line" used to have?

And now I can (sorta) tell you an answer (at least for 1921): assuming no through-running, it was something like 18 "branches." (Plus maybe 5 or 6 on the "Blue Line.")

1692459772557.png

(To be fair, if we were doing more of an “apples to apples” comparison of branches, it would be more like “9 branches”, since today we don’t double count the D and E with their through-running. But also some of those northside branches are looooong so probably shouldn’t be through-run.)

Lots of details in my blog post and appendix.

Now, from a Green Line Reconfiguration perspective, why was this doable in 1921 but wouldn't be today?

Well, aside from the destruction of some pieces of infrastructure (Canal St Incline, Blue Line conversion to HRT), from what I can tell one of the biggest differences is around speed. As I detail in the blog post and in other threads, these were basically bus routes. They crawled through the Central Subway more slowly and more closely together than would be practical for modern rapid transit. And since, by and large, they weren’t originating as far from the core as today’s transit lines do, the slower speed and longer transit time wasn’t as big of a problem. (Commuters from greater distances transferred to the “rapid transit” lines at places like Forest Hills, in order to keep their journey times reasonable.)

That being said, the bones that enabled this sprawling network largely still exist: the quad-tracked subway from Park St south, the space for quad-tracks from Gov't Ctr up past Haymarket, short-turn loops at both Park and Gov't Ctr, and a dual trunk network stretching to the west (via Kenmore and via Longwood). In some ways, the Green Line Reconfiguration concept is about taking those bones that served such a sprawling network as this, and repurposing them to create a new network that is faster and more wide-reaching.
 
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(I'm not sure which thread is best for this, so I'll share it in a couple different ones, with comments specific to the topic.)

When I was a child, I read in Trolleys Under The Hub about all the places the "Green Line" used to go. And even though it wasn't called the Green Line then, my young mind was captured by the idea of a Green Line with many more branches. "Not just an A, B, C, D, and E Line, but maybe F, G, H, I, J, K..." Was it a whole alphabet of branches running into the subway? (Even today, I admit it still tickles me a bit to come up with labels for new LRT lines using more letters of the alphabet, as can be seen in this very thread.)

But there was an underlying question for me: so, like, how many branches did the "Green Line" used to have?

And now I can (sorta) tell you an answer (at least for 1921): assuming no through-running, it was something like 18 "branches." (Plus maybe 5 or 6 on the "Blue Line.")

View attachment 41839
(To be fair, if we were doing more of an “apples to apples” comparison of branches, it would be more like “9 branches”, since today we don’t double count the D and E with their through-running. But also some of those northside branches are looooong so probably shouldn’t be through-run.)

Lots of details in my blog post and appendix.

Now, from a Green Line Reconfiguration perspective, why was this doable in 1921 but wouldn't be today?

Well, aside from the destruction of some pieces of infrastructure (Canal St Incline, Blue Line conversion to HRT), from what I can tell one of the biggest differences is around speed. As I detail in the blog post and in other threads, these were basically bus routes. They crawled through the Central Subway more slowly and more closely together than would be practical for modern rapid transit. And since, by and large, they weren’t originating as far from the core as today’s transit lines do, the slower speed and longer transit time wasn’t as big of a problem. (Commuters from greater distances transferred to the “rapid transit” lines at places like Forest Hills, in order to keep their journey times reasonable.)

That being said, the bones that enabled this sprawling network largely still exist: the quad-tracked subway from Park St south, the space for quad-tracks from Gov't Ctr up past Haymarket, short-turn loops at both Park and Gov't Ctr, and a dual trunk network stretching to the west (via Kenmore and via Longwood). In some ways, the Green Line Reconfiguration concept is about taking those bones that served such a sprawling network as this, and repurposing them to create a new network that is faster and more wide-reaching.
Good work! I wish we had this LRV system today.
 
I still basically feel that "Kenmore Division trains to Park St Inner Loop, Huntington trains reverse branch to Park St Outer Loop + Seaport, Nubian trains to Park St Outer Loop" is the strongest design for a Reconfigured Green Line -- a strong compromise between capacity, OSRs, existing infrastructure, and potential construction costs. But, I can never stop fiddling with things, so here we go.

A couple of years back, when I was thinking about Ways To Send Kenmore Trains To The Seaport, Vanshookenraggen introduced the idea of having Kenmore and Huntington services do a criss-cross in the Back Bay/Copley area, rather than running purely in parallel. See quoted posts.

The quoted discussions go through a bunch of permutations of what would happen both east and west of this crossover. For my part, I remain convinced that the best path east is one that hugs the Mass Pike. As for the west, I remain intrigued by reversing the junction at Exeter St and leaving the rest of the western segment of the Boylston Street Subway intact.

Not specifically discussed in the quotes is where to put the crossing point. Because everything is built on landfill, I'm always hesitant about proposing deep tunnels. However, we already know that there is one place where you can fit a subway "2 levels down": at the current point where the E Line ducks under the Mass Pike, near the intersection of Huntington and Exeter.

Let's relocate that crossover directly under the intersection itself.

From the north, extend the subway from the "reversed" junction directly down Exeter; from the west, continue from the new Back Bay LRT station (north of the Mass Pike) under the plaza along Stuart St.

From the existing Huntington Subway, build a tangent straightaway extension that continues under Huntington, crossing under both the Mass Pike and the new Kenmore <> Back Bay tunnel and then rises back up to reach a new "Copley" station before connecting into the existing Boylston Street Subway.

Build a pedestrian connection to unify "Copley" and "Back Bay" into a single station complex (with a transfer that shouldn't be any worse than Blue -> Orange at State).

1694454291141.png


Could this work?

EDIT: One downside is that the tunneling here would be higher-impact than most of our other Reconfiguration tunneling ideas, both in terms of disruption to traffic (Huntington, Exeter, Dartmouth), as well as to pedestrian spaces (Copley Square, the plaza along Stuart). I guess the plaza along Stuart would need to be dug up regardless of whether it connects to Huntington or Kenmore, and I propose a connection under Dartmouth in my "standard" design as well, so no difference there either.
 
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I still basically feel that "Kenmore Division trains to Park St Inner Loop, Huntington trains reverse branch to Park St Outer Loop + Seaport, Nubian trains to Park St Outer Loop" is the strongest design for a Reconfigured Green Line -- a strong compromise between capacity, OSRs, existing infrastructure, and potential construction costs. But, I can never stop fiddling with things, so here we go.

A couple of years back, when I was thinking about Ways To Send Kenmore Trains To The Seaport, Vanshookenraggen introduced the idea of having Kenmore and Huntington services do a criss-cross in the Back Bay/Copley area, rather than running purely in parallel. See quoted posts.




The quoted discussions go through a bunch of permutations of what would happen both east and west of this crossover. For my part, I remain convinced that the best path east is one that hugs the Mass Pike. As for the west, I remain intrigued by reversing the junction at Exeter St and leaving the rest of the western segment of the Boylston Street Subway intact.

Not specifically discussed in the quotes is where to put the crossing point. Because everything is built on landfill, I'm always hesitant about proposing deep tunnels. However, we already know that there is one place where you can fit a subway "2 levels down": at the current point where the E Line ducks under the Mass Pike, near the intersection of Huntington and Exeter.

Let's relocate that crossover directly under the intersection itself.

From the north, extend the subway from the "reversed" junction directly down Exeter; from the west, continue from the new Back Bay LRT station (north of the Mass Pike) under the plaza along Stuart St.

From the existing Huntington Subway, build a tangent straightaway extension that continues under Huntington, crossing under both the Mass Pike and the new Kenmore <> Back Bay tunnel and then rises back up to reach a new "Copley" station before connecting into the existing Boylston Street Subway.

Build a pedestrian connection to unify "Copley" and "Back Bay" into a single station complex (with a transfer that shouldn't be any worse than Blue -> Orange at State).

View attachment 42640

Could this work?

EDIT: One downside is that the tunneling here would be higher-impact than most of our other Reconfiguration tunneling ideas, both in terms of disruption to traffic (Huntington, Exeter, Dartmouth), as well as to pedestrian spaces (Copley Square, the plaza along Stuart). I guess the plaza along Stuart would need to be dug up regardless of whether it connects to Huntington or Kenmore, and I propose a connection under Dartmouth in my "standard" design as well, so no difference there either.
Certainly feels like a viable proposal to me. My question is more regarding what purpose it serves - what are the merits of allowing a Seaport connection (and north of Park St if we still push for full isolation at the Park St loop) to Boylston trains as opposed to Huntington trains?
 
^ Well, like I said, I still think the "parallel + reverse branch" design is all around a better approach than this "criss-cross" model. But I do think there are some merits.

First, overall, it's a simpler network. Seaport trains form a single trunk, with two or three branches. Park St trains form a single core trunk, with broadly matched secondary trunk pairs to north and south (Union and Medford, Huntington and Nubian). No reverse-branching, no interlining, and full coverage can be provided with a smaller number of named services:

1694481219599.png


Second: it more rigidly divides up homogenous services. In this model, the "subway-streetcar" services of the A/B/C are totally isolated from the "heavy metro" Huntington services. And removing the Kenmore trains from Park St then opens up more flexibility to accommodate short-turns on the Huntington and Nubian semi-street-running services (e.g. E to Hyde Square, F to Nubian with surface stops), using the loops at Park and/or Government Center. (Which also means that you can theoretically squeeze in a little more capacity into Park Street from Huntington and Nubian than you can under the "parallel + reverse branch" model -- though probably not too much more.)

(EDIT: one drawback of the “parallel” model is that — theoretically — all Kenmore trains will need to funnel through the Park St loop linearly in single file. That makes it harder to prevent cascading delays. You’d have more flexibility with a pair of stub-end tracks with an island platform, but that would be a challenge at Park St. This is where “theory”gives way to real life: probably what would actually happen is that some Kenmore trains would get directed ad hoc to run through to the GC Loop — which means, yes, there would probably be at least some entanglement between the Kenmore and Huntington divisions under the “parallel” model.)

Third: even though they are routed away from Park St, there's an argument to make that a Seaport routing provides better access to Downtown (beyond obviously the much improved access to the Seaport). As I outlined earlier this year, South Station is a little bit closer to a slightly higher number of jobs than Park St is. And then of course the access to the Seaport blows the whole thing out of the water. In general, it's always better to aim for transit lines that cross through the core, instead of terminating in it; routing Kenmore trains to the Seaport is a little bit of a "cheat" in this respect, because the Seaport is acting like a "mini-downtown" in its own right, but still overall you end up with a more balanced system.

Fourth: the "criss-cross" model provides a significant improvement in transfer connectivity for Kenmore trains. This includes a much shorter transfer distance to the Orange Line, direct access to South Station with the Indigo Line and Regional Rail, and direct access to whatever South Station <> Logan transit service we want to imagine.

(Those last two points are related to the first. A simple Kenmore <> Seaport trunk extends the "lattice" formed by Park-DTX-State-GC, and turns this "Magenta Line" into an "east-west route" like the Red and Blue Lines, crossing the "north-south" Green and Orange Lines at roughly right angles. That enables the through-routing as well as the improved transfers.)

So, I do think there are merits to the model.

What are some reasons the "criss-cross" model doesn't work well?

First, as mentioned above, it is somewhat more tunneling-intense than the "parallel + reverse-branch" model (which is honestly kinda amazing for how much it achieves with only modest tunneling).

Second, the "criss-cross" model probably under-utilizes potential capacity a bit: the "parallel" model sees something like 60 trains per hour between Boylston and Park, split across the quad tracks, while realistically at the absolute most the "criss-cross" model might see 50, more likely 40 or 45 (assuming 10 tph to Nubian via surface, another 10 tph to Nubian via subway, and something like 20ish tph on Huntington, divided amongst S Huntington, Needham, and Riverside.) Likewise, the "parallel" model robustly uses both sets of portals at Pleasant Street, with 10-20 tph going into each portal; the criss-cross model trims that down significantly -- in the crayon shown above, I have dual branches to Nubian, one for each portal, but it's very possible that there would only be one Nubian branch, only requiring a single portal.

Third, it's not ideal to serve the Seaport exclusively with "subway-streetcar" services -- the reliability will likely be lower than it would be being served by Huntington trains originating from "sealed" ROWs. Probably you would need some sort of layer-on service that pings back-and-forth between the Seaport and either South Station or Back Bay to ensure some minimum headway standard. The advantage of the "parallel" model is that the Kenmore Division becomes minimally load-bearing in terms of the rest of the system: it's mostly focused on getting its local riders into Back Bay and Downtown; it's not providing a transfer service getting Red, Orange, Huntington, Nubian, and Regional Rail commuters into the Seaport. Under the "parallel" model, the Kenmore Division can have its ups and downs with less impact on the rest of the network -- no such luck in the "criss-cross" model.

Fourth: I do think it's a shame to lose the one-seat ride between South Station/Back Bay and Longwood. Back Bay gets a partial consolation, in that passengers can do the somewhat-longer transfer to "New Copley", but South Station really loses out -- the closest you get is cumulative high freq Regional Rail services to Ruggles and Lansdowne, which are both a little under a mile away from the hospitals. The "parallel" model's Seaport <> South Station <> Back Bay <> Longwood sealed-ROW heavy-metro line is very enticing.

So, there are pros and cons to both models. I maintain that the "parallel" model is better on the balance, but I think it's worth keeping the "criss-cross" model in mind.
 
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First, as mentioned above, it is somewhat more tunneling-intense than the "parallel + reverse-branch" model (which is honestly kinda amazing for how much it achieves with only modest tunneling).

Uh, if digging an elevator shaft at Copley was enough to put a crack in one historic church, I shudder at what digging a station will do to another historic church. And while there's probably some room under the Square to move as much digging as far as possible from Trinity, the constraints of the existing tunnel and the angle on Huntington will end up limiting that wiggle room. Doable, probably, but closer to crazy transit pitches territory (though somehow if it happened they'd manage to build it in a shorter time than it took Arlington to get renovated...)
 
Uh, if digging an elevator shaft at Copley was enough to put a crack in one historic church, I shudder at what digging a station will do to another historic church. And while there's probably some room under the Square to move as much digging as far as possible from Trinity, the constraints of the existing tunnel and the angle on Huntington will end up limiting that wiggle room. Doable, probably, but closer to crazy transit pitches territory (though somehow if it happened they'd manage to build it in a shorter time than it took Arlington to get renovated...)
Yeah, like I said, it’s definitely more tunneling intense. You could probably steer well clear of Trinity if “New Copley” were shifted further west than I have in my diagram — the station would just need to be that much deeper (potentially) in order to accommodate the underpass at the Mass Pike. But yeah, it’s definitely a more intense build than the parallel model.

(I’ve never looked at it carefully, but I suppose one option could be a quad-track subway along the Mass Pike — absorbing both Kenmore and Huntington trains on isolated tracks with a flyover somewhere in there. But that somehow feels like a solution in search of a problem. [I don’t know why — as deep into hypotheticals as we are — that that is where I somehow draw the line, but.])
 
You know, I take your point, but on reflection I think it does kinda crystallize something I've been thinking about for a while: as far as I'm concerned, at this point the "Green Line Reconfiguration" really is about using the bones of the current Green Line to create something between 2 and 4 new rapid transit lines. The "Reconfiguration" concept describes how we get there, but is no longer illustrative of the ultimate goal.

Rerouting Kenmore trains into a quad-track Back Bay subway I think feels like a bridge too far because it basically calls for out-and-out abandonment of half of the Boylston Street Subway (or otherwise relegating it to dinky status) and replacing (rather than supplementing) it with a new subway to the south. To your point, we wouldn't be reconfiguring the existing infrastructure, we'd just be replacing it.

But, I don't know. A quad-track Back Bay subway would be more expensive, but probably not massively more expensive than a two-track? (Assuming there's enough space, which I still haven't looked into.) So even though abandoning Copley <> Boylston feels like a "big deal", maybe it actually wouldn't be? I don't know.
 
(EDIT: one drawback of the “parallel” model is that — theoretically — all Kenmore trains will need to funnel through the Park St loop linearly in single file. That makes it harder to prevent cascading delays. You’d have more flexibility with a pair of stub-end tracks with an island platform, but that would be a challenge at Park St. This is where “theory”gives way to real life: probably what would actually happen is that some Kenmore trains would get directed ad hoc to run through to the GC Loop — which means, yes, there would probably be at least some entanglement between the Kenmore and Huntington divisions under the “parallel” model.)
Shower thought: In a world where the "parallel" model is implemented and all Kenmore trains terminate at Park St, how feasible would it be to build a pair of crossovers south of Park St and convert it into a double stub-end terminal? Like this:
1694633804039.png

While I believe the loop is still more efficient as a terminal, this adds flexibility to hold trains in the terminal for headway control. Someone with more knowledge in operations can correct me if I'm wrong.

Rerouting Kenmore trains into a quad-track Back Bay subway I think feels like a bridge too far because it basically calls for out-and-out abandonment of half of the Boylston Street Subway (or otherwise relegating it to dinky status) and replacing (rather than supplementing) it with a new subway to the south. To your point, we wouldn't be reconfiguring the existing infrastructure, we'd just be replacing it.

But, I don't know. A quad-track Back Bay subway would be more expensive, but probably not massively more expensive than a two-track? (Assuming there's enough space, which I still haven't looked into.) So even though abandoning Copley <> Boylston feels like a "big deal", maybe it actually wouldn't be? I don't know.
I actually really like the locations of Arlington and Copley stations, having used Arlington extensively to get to/from Public Garden myself. An argument can also be made that Copley station serves the Back Bay area better than the namesake station on OL (and the Huntington subway). For these reasons, I raise eyebrows at any proposal that reduces Copley and Arlington to a shuttle to Park St, but it may be just me.

Another potential concern for a 4-track Back Bay subway is the width under Marginal St and the complexity of Bay Village. However, I think there's an alternative: A Stuart St subway, which was mentioned by Van in some of the discussions you linked earlier, in addition to a Marginal St subway. Not sure if it's a good idea for both subways to co-exist given complications with OL transfers and alignment near Pleasant St portal, but I suppose that in a real-world proposal, both subways will be studied.

Yet another shower thought: Does there exist a design around Copley that enables three - or even four - of the routings below?
  • Kenmore - Arlington
  • Kenmore - Back Bay
  • Huntington - Arlington
  • Huntington - Back Bay
 
I actually really like the locations of Arlington and Copley stations, having used Arlington extensively to get to/from Public Garden myself. An argument can also be made that Copley station serves the Back Bay area better than the namesake station on OL (and the Huntington subway). For these reasons, I raise eyebrows at any proposal that reduces Copley and Arlington to a shuttle to Park St, but it may be just me.

I used to use both Copley and Back Bay daily, and Copley was much more convenient, especially for anything on the river side of Boylston. (It also wasn't full of diesel smoke, though for much of that time it was full of construction dust.)

While I believe the loop is still more efficient as a terminal, this adds flexibility to hold trains in the terminal for headway control. Someone with more knowledge in operations can correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know that you really gain much except some redundancy when a train breaks down on the fence tracks. As it is now, without a crossover from Track 3 to 4, you're committed to the loop anyway, and it doesn't really matter if you hold a train for headway control on the T3 or T2 platform (they did that plenty when the B terminated at Park. And obviously if you add the 3-4 crossover for flexibility, you can't regularly have through and reversing service on track 3.
 
I don't know that you really gain much except some redundancy when a train breaks down on the fence tracks. As it is now, without a crossover from Track 3 to 4, you're committed to the loop anyway, and it doesn't really matter if you hold a train for headway control on the T3 or T2 platform (they did that plenty when the B terminated at Park. And obviously if you add the 3-4 crossover for flexibility, you can't regularly have through and reversing service on track 3.
You're right that it doesn't provide much benefits with the present-day Green Line system, but I was considering a reconfigured system where the outer tracks are exclusively used for Bay Village/Huntington trains, and the inner tracks exclusively for Kenmore trains which all terminate at Park.
 

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