Green Line Type 10 Procurement

[swtat]

The Green Line Type 10 procurement process has officially begun! The MBTA is soliciting bids for a firm to manage the project. Although we won't see the first of these vehicles for 7-8 years, this is exciting news nonetheless.

 

[Jahvon09]

A few questions to ask;

What happened with the Type 9 trolleys? Why replace the Type 7's? They just did complete overhauls on them. What's wrong with the Type 8's?

I figured that they'd be doing this, since they are getting rid of the entire fleet of old railcars on the Red & Orange Lines.

 

[Arlington]

A few questions to ask

> Why replace the Type 7's
They are not ADA compliant, and so can't be deployed unless you can mate them in pairs with a Type 8 (or 9). Most were built in the mid/late 1980s and 30-ish now and will 37-ish in 2025. If the refurb lasts until, say 2027 we'll have gotten 40 years of service and 10 years on the refurb, plus a safety cushion if the Type 10s are late.

> What's wrong with the Type 8's?
They've been troublesome from the start and will be not worth overhauling.

> What happened with the Type 9 trolleys?
They're a small order...just enough to cover the GLX but limited to what can be stored overnight in existing yards and the initial GLX yard. If CAF does a good job on the 9s, sure they're free to bid in the Type 10s and will have a leg up and can promote commonality. But given the size and timing (and CAF's spotty record), it wasn't worth assuming that the 2027 solution was to buy more Type 9 variants.

As I understand it, the Type 10s will be all ADA compliant (low central floor), will replace the Type 8s and allow the 7s to be phased out, giving a large common-and-modern fleet where ADA is no longer a limit on train-making, and ideally allow the fleet to grow to allow the D (and E?) to go to all 3-car trains (we'll also have to expand the new GLX yard)

 

[Jahvon09]

Yeah, guess that I wasn't looking at it in the long-term use of the equipment.

The MBTA has almost never had much success with its LRV equipment, & this goes all the way back to the mid '70s when they put the Type 6 (Boeing / Vertol) units into revenue service. At one time, they ended up suing the company for the trolleys being so problematic.

Then came the Type 7 (Kinki) units. They had som problems, but they were worked out.

Then along came the Breda units (Type 8) These were also problematic. They kept derailing off the tracks and even today, some of them still do that and also have caught on fire. Of course, they were the first ones with a centralized low floor for ADA access.

Hopefully, they'll look more closely into the Type !0 units to make sure that none of those issues resurface.

 

[Arlington]

Also note that even in the official Type 10 procurement, they specify only that

The GLT10LRV will be electrically propelled, double ended, articulated, low floor light rail vehicle designed to operate successfully on the Green Line for a minimum service life of 25 years.

If 25 years is the standard, the Type 7 Kinkis have been great (I think everyone would agree) and the Type 8 Bredas have been hard to drag across the finish line (whether one counts from 1998 or sometime in the early 2000s)

 

[The EGE]

Additionally, the Type 9s are (like the Type 8s) only partially low-floor. The T has committed to go 100% low-floor with all future light rail purchases.

 

[millerm277]

I've watched some of the recent FMCB meetings, from what I recall they mentioned there's going to be a presentation regarding the Type 10s (laying out possible options and the like) in one of the future meetings.

So I'd keep an eye on the meeting agendas for the upcoming meetings when they get put up.

 

[Jahvon09]

I once rode on a Type 8 that had a burning smell inside the trolley!

it smelled like burning plastic. I yelled out to the driver, saying; "Something is burning in here!!" He kept on driving. This was inside the tunnel. I yelled the same thing again!

It wasn't until the train had reached Hynes Station that he stopped the trolley and had everyone get off. We never found out what caused the problem. There was no smoke or fire. But something was definitely wrong!

 

[FitchburgLine]

[Shameless self promotion alert] I blogged my thoughts about this (and the Type 9 contract) https://tedstransporttakes.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/transit-projects-for-2018-rolling-stock/

 

[North Shore]

In the meantime...

https://twitter.com/LMRAMIREZGM/status/951900471530344449

 

[jass]

Are they ugly on purpose

 

[cadetcarl]

Really hate the zigzagging paint, especially because those angles don't play nice with each other. The cars themselves seem fine, but that paint was a bad choice.

 

[jass]

Do the doors open in? Thats what it looks like, and that cuts capacity

 

[datadyne007]

Do the doors open in? Thats what it looks like, and that cuts capacity

No, they open out.

 

[Equilibria]

Really hate the zigzagging paint, especially because those angles don't play nice with each other. The cars themselves seem fine, but that paint was a bad choice.

It was an online vote...

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

They aren't any worse than the Breda cars. What are some of the new features?

 

[jass]

No, they open out.

Great. I also like that they have the demand buttons.

I don't like that the windows look so small, especially at the driver door. Almost reminds me of a 1950s trolley or bus.

The doors also look to be more narrow, but that may be an optical illusion due to the window design.

 

[Jahvon09]

You'd have thought that they'd get wider doors by now. Like the ones being introduced on the new Red & Orange Line railcars.

 

[citylover94]

The type 10's haven't been designed yet so we don't know exactly how wide the doors will be the Type 9's are really just slightly revamped Type 8's. I will say though that as far as I know there aren't any Light Rail trains with doors quite that wide but I could be wrong as I can't remember the exact dimensions. I would expect the Type 10's to be an off the shelf or nearly off the shelf design now that the inner loop at Lechmere will no longer be a constraining factor once the GLX is completed and it is currently the tightest curve in the system.

 

[Jahvon09]

The co. that's making the new Red & Orange Line railcars say that even if one of the doors were to not operate & won't open, a passenger in a wheelchair can still get on the train just by using the one side door that opens.

The Type 8's DO have a hide-away ramp that comes out to make them ADA accessible & let wheelchair passengers on & off.