Is parking too cheap?

[dwash59]

I believe after 3 days a car is considered abandoned on a public way in Boston. Should have reported it so they could tow it away.

There's a difference between how the city is allowed to respond and what they actually do. Boston's response to these reports is to first contact the owner of the car. If the owner says the car isn't abandoned, then Boston closes the case. Especially if the owner says "It is parked in front of the building where I live".

 

[datadyne007]

There was an SUV with Texas plates constantly parked on Worthington St when I lived there and it never got towed or even got tickets. You cannot get a resident permit without having a MA license & registration. Meanwhile, there were times when our resident sticker was expired by a few days and the car was ticketed & towed instantly. It was infuriating, especially during the winter of 2013 when the Blizzard really limited parking on Worthington and the car from Texas was sitting there under a snow mound all winter.

 

[George_Apley]

There was an SUV with Texas plates constantly parked on Worthington St when I lived there and it never got towed or even got tickets. You cannot get a resident permit without having a MA license & registration. Meanwhile, there were times when our resident sticker was expired by a few days and the car was ticketed & towed instantly. It was infuriating, especially during the winter of 2013 when the Blizzard really limited parking on Worthington and the car from Texas was sitting there under a snow mound all winter.

Someone knew somebody...

 

[sm89]

I got a car removed on Huntington a few years ago. It had been there for almost two months. Never ticketed or towed. I think one of the tires was flat too. I was in disbelief. Not only is that section of Huntington 2hr parking during the day (where was the over limit ticket??), but it had somehow survived two months worth of street sweeping (at least 4 times). It was gone in 2 days after I called to complain.

 

[datadyne007]

I got a car removed on Huntington a few years ago. It had been there for almost two months. Never ticketed or towed. I think one of the tires was flat too. I was in disbelief. Not only is that section of Huntington 2hr parking during the day (where was the over limit ticket??), but it had somehow survived two months worth of street sweeping (at least 4 times). It was gone in 2 days after I called to complain.

YES. Texas survived the street sweeping too, but my car at 8:05 AM... towed.

 

[jass]

I don't worry about congestion due to increased shared use much because shared-autos-without-parking will be much less congesting than personal-autos-with-parking for at least 3 reasons:

- Shared autos will probably figure out how to encourage true ride-sharing at congested times (like a jitney or sharing a cab)
- When parking is no longer essential to car trips, we can return returning street space to use in "moving" rather than "storing" (probably making walking and biking way more convenient such that car trips don't skyrocket, or yes, turning them in to auto lanes)
- eliminating the traffic of "circling the block" looking for parking (which is particularly congesting because it is distracted and stops unpredictably)

Moving people is a *very* high-value city activity that's how we know that parking is too cheap: its been allowed to crowd out actually moving people.

This doesnt make sense.

If you eliminate parking, what happens to the cars when not in use?

Theyre either circling the block waiting for a rider, creating congestion, or need to be parked somewhere

 

[Arlington]

If you eliminate parking, what happens to the cars when not in use?

Theyre either circling the block waiting for a rider, creating congestion, or need to be parked somewhere

Shared cars need a WHOLE LOT LESS parking than one-per-person cars. We're going to eliminate a LOT of parking, particularly in the urban core (CBD), where the space can be better used for bike, ped, & bus.

Zipcar already has eliminated a lot of parked, idle cars (but the spaces saved got eaten up by resident permits that are still too cheap and encourage over-parking)

Private cars park something like 22hours out of 24 (and serve 1 person)
Zipcars park something like 18 hours out of 24 (and serve 4 people 4-to-1 reduction in cars resulting in a 4-to-1 reduction in overnite spots required and a reduction from 32 "midday" spot-hours (4x8) to roughly 6 midday spot hours, a 5-to-1 midday reduction)

The same way that a Zipcar's four daily users share one car and one spot, self driving cars will have (say) 10 users each day sharing one car and its one spot. So that's a 10-to-1 reduction in parking demand, and the spot that is demanded is overnight-only (no "downtown" parking needed...so the space can be returned to bus, bike, & pedestrians)

For a self-driving car (or any cheap "Uber" mode)
- When riders are plentiful, they'll be busy carrying them, not parking
- When demand is light, traffic will be light, and prowling won't be congesting.

If they need to park, they can calculate the opitimal blend of parking local, parking remote, or prowling. Either way, they're working hard to not be a zero-occupant-parker.

Cars today park for HOURS. They park for errands. They park for their sole user, waiting to come back.

Imagine, for example that your self driving car has just dropped you at work on Devonshire St. When you step out, it immediately goes into "Uber" mode, and is assigned a fare, and spends your whole working day earning money as a cab, but you and it negotiate the pre-agreed trip home for you. You and 10 people share 1 car and its one spot that day. And at that point, you're better of not owning that car. Just rent, as time share jets are, from a big fleet owner.

Midday, there's no demand...but that also means there's less traffic and not much penalty imposed by letting your car prowl (or it could park someplace outside the CBD where parking prices are lower). Still, it has done its job: 9 other people "shared" your car and their trips produced no demand for parking at all.

Self-driving Ubers will have fully-idle moments. In that moment, the car will pick the most economically efficient activity:
- prowl on less congested streets
- park in an rare-but-expensive spot in the CBD (maybe to refuel/recharge)
- drive further out and park cheaper
- and park with its clones in last-in first-out (LIFO) dead ends that "regular" cars cannot use (because you demand "your" car back) and taxi drivers can't use (because LIFO parking is unfair to human drivers working shifts, but works fine with machines (its how shopping carts work, usually)

 

[JeffDowntown]

The LIFO parking for self-driving Ubers is a great observation. Turns a lot of currently dead end space into possible parking, opening up "through" space for other uses.

 

[datadyne007]

First Comm Ave and now this!!!

City to replace all its parking meters; move could mean parking apps and eventually higher rates near Fenway for Sox games

Mayor Walsh said today the city will spend $6 million to replace all of its street parking meters with "smart" units in constant communication with BTD - a move officials say will lead to better management of curbside parking.

BTD head Gina Fiandaca said the units will also come with software that could lead to "demand pricing" on specific spaces.

Full article:
http://www.universalhub.com/2015/city-replace-all-its-parking-meters-move-could

The car is finally (for real) becoming no longer king in Boston!

 

[bigeman312]

Hooray!

 

[whighlander]

First Comm Ave and now this!!!



The car is finally (for real) becoming no longer king in Boston!

Just government money grubbing -- what has always been king is $ -- don't whoop too too much

How is it that some places along a street -- often within a few blocks:

• free parking for all such as Fenway right behind the MFA
• free parking for residents -- near the MFA on Fenway
• meters

 

[bigeman312]

Just government money grubbing -- what has always been king is $ -- don't whoop too too much

How is it that some places along a street -- often within a few blocks:

• free parking for all such as Fenway right behind the MFA
• free parking for residents -- near the MFA on Fenway
• meters

I try not to respond to your posts...but, what are you talking about?

 

[millerm277]

The car is finally (for real) becoming no longer king in Boston!

I don't see how this makes the car "no longer king" in Boston. It makes thing better for car drivers as it should no longer be impossible to find spots at certain times if demand pricing is used.

 

[whighlander]

I try not to respond to your posts...but, what are you talking about?

Bigeman -- there is nothing particularly rational about the parking on street -- and it has absolutely nothing to do with any policy with respect to personal cars, shared cars, or any other form of transportation

It's all about money and its handmaiden the big intrusive government -- there are plenty of places where there is on-street parking without even a meter and it works just as well as these complex sets of rules and signs, etc.

Parking on the street should be free to all during the day with restrictions, if needed, overnight in purely residential areas

PS: in Lexington we can't park on the street overnight from Dec 1 to April 1 irrespective of the amount of snow in place, or forecast

 

[bigeman312]

I don't see how this makes the car "no longer king" in Boston. It makes thing better for car drivers as it should no longer be impossible to find spots at certain times if demand pricing is used.

I agree with Data's post and read it more as "the driver's base instincts are no longer being catered to with respect to all transportation planning. Rather, what's good for a coherent, effective, and efficient transportation system is what is being prioritized. Even if that means rejecting the loud screams of the masses (of car drivers)."

 

[bigeman312]

Bigeman -- there is nothing particularly rational about the parking on street -- and it has absolutely nothing to do with any policy with respect to personal cars, shared cars, or any other form of transportation

Fine.

It's all about money and its handmaiden the big intrusive government -- there are plenty of places where there is on-street parking without even a meter and it works just as well as these complex sets of rules and signs, etc.

Well....I don't agree with ALL of this, but okay...

Parking on the street should be free to all during the day with restrictions, if needed, overnight in purely residential areas

How do you possibly come to this conclusion!? Why would it EVER be a good idea to give a limited resource (land) with market value (parking spots in a desirable district) away for free. All this does is encourage driving and parking in the city (something that we know should be discouraged more), discourage turnover of the spots (should be encouraged more), and remove revenue from the landowner (the city). Why???

PS: in Lexington we can't park on the street overnight from Dec 1 to April 1 irrespective of the amount of snow in place, or forecast

So?

 

[Arlington]

Parking on the street should be free to all during the day with restrictions, if needed, overnight in purely residential areas

You speak about parking the way that Soviet peasants spoke about bread: the government should give us our life's necessities free of charge.

All the political promise of infinite, free, supply does is encourage overconsumption and create a (middle class) entitlement.

Free parking (or free parking with resident coupon...which works a lot like a Soviet bread ration) has produced what is plainly obvious as a Tragedy Of the Commons, instead of free grazing of animals, we have the free parking of cars, and the concomitant over-grazing, over parking.

Then we get shortages, and hoarding (see spot-savers), and lines (circling the block), and black-market (buddy gets me his resident's sticker)

If I didn't own a car, could I park my mobile home? If I only owned a storage box, could I leave it there? What's so magical about this particular form of private property that the Gov't has to give you a handout to store it?

It is actually *more* in keeping with human dignity, freedom and free choice to price the scarce resource dynamically and let people's free choices reflect the full set of limitations and consequences for themselves and those around them.

 

[datadyne007]

I agree with Data's post and read it more as "the driver's base instincts are no longer being catered to with respect to all transportation planning. Rather, what's good for a coherent, effective, and efficient transportation system is what is being prioritized. Even if that means rejecting the loud screams of the masses (of car drivers)."

That's a correct analysis of my post's intent.

 

[BPLange7]

I love this move by the city. Anything that gets closer to demand pricing is a step in the right direction. I'm less than optimistic they will go all the way though.

I know Brookline implemented the Red Sox pricing near St Marys a few years ago (as mentioned in the article), but I thought they abandoned it. Is it still in place?

 

[whighlander]

You speak about parking the way that Soviet peasants spoke about bread: the government should give us our life's necessities free of charge.

All the political promise of infinite, free, supply does is encourage overconsumption and create a (middle class) entitlement.

Free parking (or free parking with resident coupon...which works a lot like a Soviet bread ration) has produced what is plainly obvious as a Tragedy Of the Commons, instead of free grazing of animals, we have the free parking of cars, and the concomitant over-grazing, over parking.

Then we get shortages, and hoarding (see spot-savers), and lines (circling the block), and black-market (buddy gets me his resident's sticker)

If I didn't own a car, could I park my mobile home? If I only owned a storage box, could I leave it there? What's so magical about this particular form of private property that the Gov't has to give you a handout to store it?

It is actually *more* in keeping with human dignity, freedom and free choice to price the scarce resource dynamically and let people's free choices reflect the full set of limitations and consequences for themselves and those around them.

Reminds me of a great political cartoon of the Evil Empire era:

Man and presumably wife [babushka and all] are plowing a giant collective field with a steam powered tractor. A heavy Marxist Theoretic discussion is underway -- mostly by the wife -- finally the Man Yells Shut-up and throw another 5 year plan onto the fire