Jamaica Plain Infill and Small Developments

Development of this lot, 16 Everett Street, in my old neighborhood, has been missed. I have to say I'm sad to see it developed; I always thought the property belonged to the gorgeous Queen Anne next to it. The thing going up here is absolutely massive in every sense of the word - much more imposing than the render makes it seem. It looks like they've at least added detail consistent with the neighborhood, but materials will be key here... I have to say this thing is awful, and looks like a retirement home. I like the quiet streets of JP left the way they are. Some streets look better as they originally were planned. We shall see.
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Ah, so that's the development visible from the Green St platform.
 
FK4 said:
Development of this lot, 16 Everett Street, in my old neighborhood, has been missed. I have to say I'm sad to see it developed; I always thought the property belonged to the gorgeous Queen Anne next to it. The thing going up here is absolutely massive in every sense of the word - much more imposing than the render makes it seem.
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I stumbled across this over the weekend and I have to agree- I'm kind of surprised at how large it is. Not that I have a problem with the density, I just don't think it's contextualized well within the immediate area. It looms.
 
FK4 said:
I like the quiet streets of JP left the way they are.
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Its not on a quiet street considering the fact that train tracks for the orange line, commuter rail and amtrak are mere feet away. I'll take this project over another boring box of a building any day. Plus, revenue from this project will help to subsidize an eight-unit affordable-housing project the Jamaica Plain Neighborhood Development Corp. is planning nearby
 
Kinopio said:
Its not on a quiet street considering the fact that train tracks for the orange line, commuter rail and amtrak are mere feet away. I'll take this project over another boring box of a building any day. Plus, revenue from this project will help to subsidize an eight-unit affordable-housing project the Jamaica Plain Neighborhood Development Corp. is planning nearby
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Everett is a quintessential quiet Jamaica Plain road, with many mature trees, beautiful, historic houses, and a surviving segment of attractive brick rowhouses. When you're there, the train is miles away. Moreover, a box would never, ever be allowed at this site (other than neighborhood opposition, it’s in the Sumner Hill Historic District), so that’s a moot point.

You are entitled to the opinion (if I read you correctly) that the ends justify the means as far as permitting ugly buildings (or unsatisfactory buildings) in pretty neighborhoods to subsidize affordable housing elsewhere. I disagree. Some streets deserve to be preserved as they are, with very sensitive approaches that this building lacks – and it is absolutely reasonable to expect better. This isn't the end of the world, but as Downburst said, it hulks, and as I said, it looks like a retirement home.
 
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This project above is about a 2 minute walk from an Orange Line T station, replacing what was apparently an empty lot. Isn't this precisely where we are supposed to be encouraging denser housing?

Is it the green building that is being referred to as "hulking" and "absolutely massive"? I admit I haven't seen it in person but I think we have very different definitions.

Of course, for a low-rise neighborhood I am most used to Somerville which has literally double the population of JP in a slightly smaller area, so these "hulking" and "absolutely massive" buildings are sprinkled in out of necessity.

It's hard for me to think that 9 residential units right by the T is too big for, frankly, any neighborhood. What would your solution have been for this parcel FK4?
 
DZH22 said:
This project above is about a 2 minute walk from an Orange Line T station, replacing what was apparently an empty lot. Isn't this precisely where we are supposed to be encouraging denser housing?

Is it the green building that is being referred to as "hulking" and "absolutely massive"? I admit I haven't seen it in person but I think we have very different definitions.

Of course, for a low-rise neighborhood I am most used to Somerville which has literally double the population of JP in a slightly smaller area, so these "hulking" and "absolutely massive" buildings are sprinkled in out of necessity.

It's hard for me to think that 9 residential units right by the T is too big for, frankly, any neighborhood. What would your solution have been for this parcel FK4?
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Yes. It's called context. Go there and wander around Sumner Hill (the next Porchfest would be a good time), and then get back to me. Sorry to be blunt, but you clearly are not familiar with this neighborhood, which has the most sumptuous and eclectic architectural mix of any neighborhood outside of New Orleans' Uptown. Somerville has no neighborhoods that are remotely similar to this; yes, it has areas of originally single family homes but they're the usual Victorian stock, almost always with the whole street developed wholesale, that you see everywhere else around here (Brookline, Ashmont, etc). The fact that the OL was moved into a neighborhood with a large proportion of single family homes that were historically summer cottages is problematic, but does not simply justify assumptions like "well, it's close to the train, so build it up".

What would I have done? I would rather have seen two separate, tasteful buildings, something that appeared less massive, and fit in better with the surrounding architecture. Without that cheesy rocking-chair porch. While imperfect, 266 Lamartine ended up being a pretty decent project that, while large, fit in much better and does not "hulk" and contains 4 units on a much smaller site.

There's few areas that are really unique and perfect in this city and should be left alone; this is obviously one of them. Wigglesworth and Worthington Streets being another; Taft Street in Dorchester being yet another.
 
FK4 said:
Yes. It's called context. Go there and wander around Sumner Hill (the next Porchfest would be a good time), and then get back to me. Sorry to be blunt, but you clearly are not familiar with this neighborhood, which has the most sumptuous and eclectic architectural mix of any neighborhood outside of New Orleans' Uptown. Somerville has no neighborhoods that are remotely similar to this; yes, it has areas of originally single family homes but they're the usual Victorian stock, almost always with the whole street developed wholesale, that you see everywhere else around here (Brookline, Ashmont, etc). The fact that the OL was moved into a neighborhood with a large proportion of single family homes that were historically summer cottages is problematic, but does not simply justify assumptions like "well, it's close to the train, so build it up".

What would I have done? I would rather have seen two separate, tasteful buildings, something that appeared less massive, and fit in better with the surrounding architecture. Without that cheesy rocking-chair porch. While imperfect, 266 Lamartine ended up being a pretty decent project that, while large, fit in much better and does not "hulk" and contains 4 units on a much smaller site.

There's few areas that are really unique and perfect in this city and should be left alone; this is obviously one of them. Wigglesworth and Worthington Streets being another; Taft Street in Dorchester being yet another.
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The MassDOT RFP did say the "best use" was for 3 detached 3-family buildings.
 
FK4 said:
....Sorry to be blunt, but you clearly are not familiar with this neighborhood, which has the most sumptuous and eclectic architectural mix of any neighborhood outside of New Orleans' Uptown.
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According to Google Streetview, it looks a lot like many other neighborhoods I wander around, particularly some of the side streets in Brookline. I think you are overselling the importance of this road. I was referring to Somerville in terms of low-rise scale, but I have probably walked down 1000 different streets in the immediate metro (and driven down many more!) and this one does not stand out.

At some point I will try to walk down it but I really don't like Jamaica Plain, mainly because I always end up very lost and next thing you know I'm in Mattapan. The area is a true black hole for any sort of logical navigation.

When I think of certain neighborhoods that absolutely need to be protected, I'm defaulting to the North End and Beacon Hill. I believe that most of these old houses also need to be protected, but at the end of the day we have a housing crisis. That necessitates these vacant lots being developed larger than their neighbors if we ever expect to put a dent into this issue. I have a hard time with your sky-is-falling characterization of this building when it looks like pretty much the smallest project posted on this entire website.
 
It does seem big, but I love all the historical new builds of New England, most places don’t get nearly as much. More variety to look at than in DC new construction for example. This one is admittedly mediocre but I don’t thank most people will mind, fits in reasonably well. What is better about an empty patch of grass?
 
DZH22 said:
According to Google Streetview, it looks a lot like many other neighborhoods I wander around, particularly some of the side streets in Brookline. I think you are overselling the importance of this road. I was referring to Somerville in terms of low-rise scale, but I have probably walked down 1000 different streets in the immediate metro (and driven down many more!) and this one does not stand out.

At some point I will try to walk down it but I really don't like Jamaica Plain, mainly because I always end up very lost and next thing you know I'm in Mattapan. The area is a true black hole for any sort of logical navigation.

When I think of certain neighborhoods that absolutely need to be protected, I'm defaulting to the North End and Beacon Hill. I believe that most of these old houses also need to be protected, but at the end of the day we have a housing crisis. That necessitates these vacant lots being developed larger than their neighbors if we ever expect to put a dent into this issue. I have a hard time with your sky-is-falling characterization of this building when it looks like pretty much the smallest project posted on this entire website.
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We can go back and forth forever on this, but the streets of this neighborhood and the overall aesthetic really are unique. Brookline is nice as hell — I grew up there, I like Brookline — but most of the roads of Brookline are really pretty standard middle class housing stock — big Victorian cubes gussied up, usually built en masse, street by street, by developers, all at the exact same time, and on plots too small for the house — nothing truly all that special. The really gorgeous roads of Brookline are the old backroads of Heath, Warren, Clyde, and Sargent; these are in fact quite similar to Sumner Hill in that they were built as cottages, but they were built more exclusively on much larger plots, and lack the intimacy of this area... as well as the mix of occasional 3-deckers, brownstones, two-families.

The reason this neighborhood is unique is the variety of architectural styles, terrain, winding roads, and good land use/plot use that allows it to be very, very green. Nothing here is quite like anything else in Boston. The area bounded by Carolina, South, Centre, Sheridan, Lamartine, and Elm is an area worth exploring on foot or bike. I don't want to make this completely ridiculous, which I already am, but there are just certain zones that deserve protection more than others. Judgement call? Absolutely. But while this thing could have been worse, it could have been better, and I would have rather seen better here and am somewhat surprised. I also would repeat that pointing to the proximity of a T station does not simply grant the right to develop whatever you want... this is very similar logic, merely twisted and turned a little, that resulted in the attempts to ram highways through areas that seemed to make sense "for the common good". Count me largely as in favor of development, but this is a neighborhood that I'd rather see left alone. QED.

Edit - the summer Porchfest really is a great reason to explore the area bouded by the roads I mentioned above.
 
Going to have to wholeheartedly agree with FK4, though I would actually stretch his boundary across Centre to the gorgeous little English village you find on Eliot Street. This little pocket of JP is hypnotic - you walk, really, really slowly when you're there.
 
FK4 said:
I also would repeat that pointing to the proximity of a T station does not simply grant the right to develop whatever you want...
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No, but it does grant an obligation to develop empty lots larger than if the T station weren't there. Regarding "whatever you want" it actually looks like the developer attempted to make this look nice and fit in, in spite of the size. I work near Alewife and the amount of ugly new developments there, all over the suburbs, and even in other parts of Boston is astounding. This one at least tries not to be terrible.

Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion on the execution. But again, with the T proximity and the housing crisis, these open parcels should not be underbuilt.
 
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