Kenmore Square North (WHOOP) | 533-541 Commonwealth Ave | Fenway

[Shepard]

There is literally a parking lot facing Kenmore across Deerfield Street. If Kenmore north needs a flashy new glass cube, build it there. Leave this corner alone ffs

 

[tangent]

This site is begging for a facade-ectomy plus added density in the interior of the block. Step back, build something semi contextual above the existing facades and call it a day.

This.

Could even be the glass they are proposing above the existing facade. I tend to like that contrast with glass above the old street level facades.

 

[coleslaw]

Can developers only think in entire isolated blocks? Apparently they can only try to contextually fit in for billboards of oil companies.

 

[tangent]

Globe: Here’s what the Citgo sign will look like on its new rooftop

This is modern Boston architectural deliberation in a nutshell. Get all riled up about a billboard high up in the air and ignore the irreplaceable street-level architecture being ruined around it.

Barf.

Yes, I think it probably did boil down to "preserving" a 35 year old refurbished sign with advertising for an oil company with ties to a corrupt dictatorship... versus a nice olde Boston street corner elegantly rounded facade. And the City decided to choose the absurdist preservation as if this was an integral part of Fenway Park instead of treating Kenmore Square as having its own importance.

Really should preserve the facade of that corner building to the greatest degree possible

 

[bigpicture7]

Yes, I think it probably did boil down to "preserving" a 35 year old refurbished sign with advertising for an oil company with ties to a corrupt dictatorship... versus a nice olde Boston street corner facade. And the City decided to choose the absurdist preservation as if this was an integral part of Fenway Park instead of treating Kenmore Square as having its own importance.

+1,

Why not hang a miniaturized citgo sign, stylized to make it look like it were the appropriate distance away, over the green monster? Wouldn't that satisfy park-goers' nostalgia?

 

[tangent]

+1,

Why not hang a miniaturized citgo sign, stylized to make it look like it were the appropriate distance away, over the green monster? Wouldn't that satisfy park-goers' nostalgia?

How about just an app where they can hold up their phones and overlay where the citgo sign would have been from any perspective in the city.

I actually like that there is a big lit up (non billboard format) sign in Kenmore adding some visual interest to the city. Like our own half hearted effort at a mini times square... almost mocking Times Square.

I hate that it is just for CITGO which feels like we are locking in a sign for a stupid company that has really nothing to do with Boston other than a big sign.

 

[Coyote137]

This is one of the worst proposals of the year. Easily.

 

[Czervik.Construction]

Yeah, I don't get Boston's attachment to that sign. It is Venezuela's national oil company and it is not like they have a big presence in MA.

 

[Equilibria]

Yes, I think it probably did boil down to "preserving" a 35 year old refurbished sign with advertising for an oil company with ties to a corrupt dictatorship... versus a nice olde Boston street corner elegantly rounded facade. And the City decided to choose the absurdist preservation as if this was an integral part of Fenway Park instead of treating Kenmore Square as having its own importance.

I don't think so. I read the section of the PNF where they discuss demolishing the buildings (Chapter 6), and it's one of the most half-hearted greedy BS arguments I've heard. Basically, it's summed up as "upgrading this to code would be hard and expensive, so f- it." They make one weak attempt at "by the time we were done, none of the original character would be left", but that only applies to the interior and I don't think anyone objects to losing that.

I get that these buildings are pretty well blighted and in terrible shape, but that's not an excuse for coming up with something this jarring to replace them, even if you tear them down. Look at Cambridge - the Abbot Block and Mass+Main are both building stuff that fits in, the latter even building a replica of a notable building that couldn't make it structurally.

Bottom line: they did the bare minimum to meet the requirements placed on them before appealing straight to "modern office tenants." That's not about the sign, it's about the developers being horrible.

Yeah, I don't get Boston's attachment to that sign. It is Venezuela's national oil company and it is not like they have a big presence in MA.

Personally, I love it and think it adds a lot to the skyline. I would never buy gas there - oppressive regime and stuff - but we forgive that when we buy T trains from the Chinese, so why not here?

 

[HenryAlan]

I love the sign and would very much like to see it preserved. But this proposal is complete garbage, ruining one of the last bits of Kenmore Square that ties it to the original version.

 

[estyle]

Since they're proposing this as commercial, which isn't one of Related's core businesses and using a couple of relatively low-caliber architectural firms, I wonder if they're planning to get this permitted then sell the project off to a commercial developer.

Beal does some good stuff (mostly their affordable housing work IMO) anytime they go near anything old the instinct is to obliterate it. And I am really wishing for more variety in the architects we see. Even someone nearby like Bruner Cott could probably do something better with this context. But Beal is big player and they will get what they want. And it wouldn't surprise me if the new building gets one of the rooftops signs that Marty likes to hand out all over the city.

 

[Smartiro]

This needs something similar to Atlantic (aka Russia) Wharf approach - gut and renovate City Convenience building and add a setback tower on top. Ideally it would be residential tower, but whatever works.

 

[shmessy]

This is one of the worst proposals of the year. Easily.

You're being too kind. This is the worst proposal in SEVERAL years.

I'm now convinced Bin Laden's death was faked and he is living undercover as the developer of this project.

 

[TomOfBoston]

This needs something similar to Atlantic (aka Russia) Wharf approach - gut and renovate City Convenience building and add a setback tower on top. Ideally it would be residential tower, but whatever works.

Even a facadectomy would be better.

 

[Sprngh2o]

Ugly building hideous sign. Start over please

 

[Beton Brut]

Wrong thread -- previous post redacted.

Also, this proposal blows goats.

 

[statler]

As someone said a while back, Urban Renewal never really stopped in Boston. it was just privatized.

 

[393b40]

This kind of lazy architecture belongs in the Seaport not Kenmore Square.

 

[Bos77]

Yeah, I don't get Boston's attachment to that sign. It is Venezuela's national oil company and it is not like they have a big presence in MA.

It's the hazy summer nights that you, your parents, their parents, spent at Fenway. It's your signpost when drunk wandering the Kenmore area after the clubs closed. It's a rare bit of color on an otherwise austere night skyline, reflecting in all directions on the Charles. It's also the only blinkie lights we've got going on, when it comes to Boston's endless NYC fetishism/hatred; "You've got Times Square, yea, well we've got one sign too!". Woo!

It is, quintessentially part of the Boston psyche.

 

[Shepard]

Baseball is a sport of nostalgia. For every one person who goes to Fenway who's really read up on the day's game and thoroughly wants to follow it, five others go for the "experience" - which often comes down "I remember being here as a kid!" The Citgo sign isn't sacred, exactly, but it's a part of that sacred experience. It isn't about the sign. No similar outcry about the Shell sign on Memorial Drive. It's a unique and cherished part of the Kenmore Square experience - indeed, for wayfinding throughout the city - and that's a great success of placemaking.

So, keep "a" neon sign there. It doesn't need to be a Citgo ad.