Liberty Mutual Tower | 157 Berkeley Street | Back Bay

[briv]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Sure, I think the biggest issue we had was on Col ave, and IMHO the addition of a new building entrance on Col and outdoor seating will help. All of you probably haven't been walking past that stretch of Col for years - this will be a huge improvement. Why can't anyone on this board ever be happy that such a good project is moving forward? Nothing's perfect and everyone has a different opinion but it's a hell of a lot better than what's there and it's great for the city. I agree w/Seamus - the fact that things usually take years is a problem, if it's a good project (not perfect, not pleasing everybody because that's IMPOSSIBLE, but good) why not get it done? What do you really think killed Col Ctr? Years of process.

You're obviously joking, right?

This building will span about 320' of Columbus Ave. That same length on Newbury St. would be fronted by 15 buildings. That's about 15 storefronts, as well as dozens of small businesses and residents above. Compare this to Liberty Mutual's building which will have ONE entrance to a lobby. And some outdoor seating a few months out of the year. During office hours. Maybe. Wow.

This is not a good project. It's going to render this stretch of Columbus Ave a dead zone for years to come. Bay Villagers are going to crap themselves when they see this gigantic, squatly proportioned wall blotting out the sky.

 

[SouthEnder]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Nope, not joking. It's Col ave, not Newbury Street. I'm enough of a pragmatist to recognize that if you put 15 retail spaces there, all you'll get are 15 "VACANT" signs. Look at all the other vacant retail in the same area. I'd rather have something of quality there filling what is today an absolute dump of a block. And I don't think I'm alone from talking to my neighbors. briv, do you live in the neighborhood?

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Nope, not joking. It's Col ave, not Newbury Street. I'm enough of a pragmatist to recognize that if you put 15 retail spaces there, all you'll get are 15 "VACANT" signs. Look at all the other vacant retail in the same area. I'd rather have something of quality there filling what is today an absolute dump of a block. And I don't think I'm alone from talking to my neighbors. briv, do you live in the neighborhood?

I completely agree. I work down the street from this, and the building is right for where it is. We aren't going to get Newbury St., so if the fight is made for one, the result will be nothing. A good, solid building, that brings more people to that corner is a good thing. I really liked the models pictured a few pages back that showed the building along with Columbus Center. The neighborhood would be great with these projects. At least one is going to happen, and if we're lucky, it will stimulate some others. It will not in any way detract from the neighborhood. Some neighborhoods are shopping districts with quaint boutiques, some are office buildings. We need both. To demand that every neighborhood suit all needs is a recipe for killing development.

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

If what you're saying is true, St James Ave would be teeming with people. Because you can't enter into any of the shops except at either end or one entrance midway down, you won't go in there (you won't even know they're there, which is why turnover is so high).

 

[JSic]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I feel that this building will ultimately serve as a harbinger for more development along Stuart St and over the pike, helping nit up a bit of the "gap" in the skyline. I also like that its somewhat taller than yellow/blue building across Stuart St, thus serving towards this end.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

It seems to me that the development team pretty much ignored the community's input.

I'm not sure how to overcome this double-standard in my own thinking about development. Here, the community's input was welcome in part because it would have improved the streetscape. In other instances though we can go pages decrying the community input process, and the nimbyism and cronyism it entails. Ultimately, I think the streamlined process is favorable. The market has decided that this intersection is not Newbury Street, as others have pointed out, and I agree that retailers would be ill-served by this location. I hope one day that it can sustain it, and that the ground floor space can be adapted to integrate retail when there's a demand for it. That's not to say that I think the market should determine everything about development by any means - I'm still very conflicted on this whole issue.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

New England Mutual Life Insurance building, occupying nearly a whole block of both Boylston and Newbury streets, had no retail whatsoever for many years. The Clarendon Street side contained a theatre (originally New England Life Hall, later Copley Theatre) but the long sides were just offices.

So yeah, these first-floor land uses can change when the market appears to demand them.

 

[SeamusMcFly]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Either that, or shell the first floor for future retail fit-out, and plaster the windows with Liberty Mutual propaganda for the next bunch of years until they fill in. The up front cost would I'm sure disuade LM from this option. If the future market demands ground floor retail, LM will lease the space out and have it modified at the lessee's expense. Win-win for the owner.
The plan has never been to have the building fully occupied by LM, or at least not for 20 years, so this is a distinct possibility. But, in the meantime LM can construct for less.

 

[PaulC]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

The rule of thumb is 200 sq ft per employee so at 590,000 sq ft the Liberty Mutual building will hold 2,950 people.

 

[briv]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Nope, not joking. It's Col ave, not Newbury Street. I'm enough of a pragmatist to recognize that if you put 15 retail spaces there, all you'll get are 15 "VACANT" signs. Look at all the other vacant retail in the same area. I'd rather have something of quality there filling what is today an absolute dump of a block. And I don't think I'm alone from talking to my neighbors. briv, do you live in the neighborhood?

What you're really saying is that Newbury St. is a good street and "Col Ave." is a shitty street, and that you're resolved to keep it this way forever.

But this view of Columbus isn't even accurate. There's lots of retail along it, proving it is viable. If you've ever walked the street you would notice that much of what survived Urban Renewal is lined with storefronts and is quite vibrant. Even the blocks directly south and north (Park Square) are lined completely with retail and restaurants. Not to mention the rest of this block not occupied by a giant parking lot (Flash's, Vega) seems to be doing just fine. So where are all the vacant signs?

Also, you said the development team took much care to respond to the community's comments. One of the community's primary concerns, one I found quite valid, was the deadness, or lack of activity, that this project would bring to this 320-foot stretch of Columbus Ave. Are you really saying that the addition of a single lobby entrance and some seasonal outdoor seating alleviate those concerns?

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

But this view of Columbus isn't even accurate. There's lots of retail along it, proving it is viable. If you've ever walked the street you would notice that much of what survived Urban Renewal is lined with storefronts and is quite vibrant.

I've got to go with SouthEnder on this. I live a block from Columbus and it's just not very vibrant.
I agree with your sentiment Briv that we should shoot for vibrancy, retail, street interaction, etc. but in this case, the project won't bring a "deadness, or lack of activity" to this stretch of Columbus, like you say. The deadness is, for the most part, already there.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I think the issue needs to be framed as what is, not what should be. What is cannot be considered to be Newbury St. A section of Columbus, further West has potential for that, but not the section where this building will be situated.

Perhaps, at some point, it could be similar to Boylston St. As others have pointed out, it's possible to re-orient the first floor to the street side (e.g. the Newbry). I'd much rather get the building up, then re-orient later as the market demands street side commerce. If the market demanded it now, we'd get it now. But the market only demands an office building. This is one that can eventually fill a larger promise, but doesn't need to fill that role today.

 

[Shepard]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

I took a walk over there just now on this beautiful Indian Summer (is that still a PC-acceptable term?) day... there should have been people around, lunchtime crowds at least... Instead, the intersection was absolutely dead except for demolition crews readying the site. The intersection will always be dead - at least until the Pike is decked over.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Retail in a place like this is really a chicken-or-egg type deal. No retailer going to want to set up shop where there isn't any foot traffic, but a strip of retail also can create foot traffic.

Like you said, nothing will happen until the Pike gets decked over. We shouldn't fault Liberty for not having retail here, it just wouldn't sell.

 

[bostonbred]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

olds UNkle say this Spot OnCe full of retaIL STriPPers

 

[briv]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Why does everyone seem so eager to make excuses for blatantly bad architecture and urban design? Why do I seem like the only one who's seeing this? Am I cracking up or something?

I took a walk over there just now on this beautiful Indian Summer (is that still a PC-acceptable term?) day... there should have been people around, lunchtime crowds at least... Instead, the intersection was absolutely dead except for demolition crews readying the site. The intersection will always be dead - at least until the Pike is decked over.

By this rationale, wouldn't it be acceptable to add introverted, street-deadening buildings to any parking lot in the city? Over the Turnpike? The entire Seaport? Should't we be building the best city possible, ensuring that new buildings enhance their neighborhoods, rather than enshrine their current drabness for all eternity?

Don't you think the building that replaces a parking lot should add something greater to the area than the parking lot it replaces? What a low bar we've set in this city!

Retail in a place like this is really a chicken-or-egg type deal. No retailer going to want to set up shop where there isn't any foot traffic, but a strip of retail also can create foot traffic.

Like you said, nothing will happen until the Pike gets decked over. We shouldn't fault Liberty for not having retail here, it just wouldn't sell.

The reason this block feels so desolate is because it contains a giant parking lot. This block does not face the Turnpike trench. Ironically, the buildings along Columbus that actually do--the gold-bricked Romanesque and adjacent Albert Pope Building--are both lined with restaurants/retail which seem to do just fine. In fact, virtually every building in this area of Columbus contains, or soon will contain, ground-level retail. The Liberty Mutual tower will be the only significant building that deviates from this norm.

Also, Park Square is right there, the very next block up. It's one of the city's significant urban spaces. With 100 Arlington going residential and a newly renovated/restored park, the square will no doubt experience a rejuvenation. Should't significant new construction in the immediate area, such as this tower, attempt to tap into and enhance this?

Liberty Mutual is about to take a big fat permanent dump on the Back Bay skyline and all I'm asking for is a little ground-level retail! Is that really so much? Even 222 Berkeley and 500 Boylston had the decency to line their ground floors with retail.

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Every time I walk Columbus Ave in this area I'm surprised by how many people are walking on its north side; the area simply doesn't look like it should attract as much foot traffic as it does. It isn't enough of a critical mass to make retailers swoon, but the potential is definitely there and waiting.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Liberty Mutual Q3 profit doubles
Boston Business Journal - by Tim McLaughlin
Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 9:23am EST Related:
Insurance

Boston-based Liberty Mutual Group, the No. 5 U.S. property and casualty insurer, said net income in the third quarter more than doubled after booking smaller asbestos and environmental-related losses.

Liberty Mutual said net income in the quarter was $567 million, compared with $260 million in the year-ago period. Revenue rose 6 percent year-over-year to $8.4 billion. Cash flow from operations rose 22 percent to $709 million.

In the quarter, the insurer said net incurred losses from prior years on asbestos and environmental claims were $2 million, compared with losses of $361 million in the year-ago quarter.

At the end of September, Liberty reported $112.9 billion in assets and policyholders? equity of nearly $17 billion. Total debt was $5.6 billion.


http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2010/11/08/liberty-mutual-q3-profit-doubles.html

 

[Mayor Menino's Crohn's]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

Liberty Mutual Q3 profit doubles
Boston Business Journal - by Tim McLaughlin
Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 9:23am EST Related:
Insurance

Boston-based Liberty Mutual Group, the No. 5 U.S. property and casualty insurer, said net income in the third quarter more than doubled after booking smaller asbestos and environmental-related losses.

Liberty Mutual said net income in the quarter was $567 million, compared with $260 million in the year-ago period. Revenue rose 6 percent year-over-year to $8.4 billion. Cash flow from operations rose 22 percent to $709 million.

In the quarter, the insurer said net incurred losses from prior years on asbestos and environmental claims were $2 million, compared with losses of $361 million in the year-ago quarter.

At the end of September, Liberty reported $112.9 billion in assets and policyholders? equity of nearly $17 billion. Total debt was $5.6 billion.


http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2010/11/08/liberty-mutual-q3-profit-doubles.html

See, I briefly dated a girl who worked at Liberty Mutual at their Acton Office (She but now stalks me, but that's besides the point). She was so proud of the "jobs that would be added (construction, private secor)."

On a personal level, they shouldn't even exist. I'm glad that something is being built in Boston. But Liberty Mutual? They drop people who've been in no-fault accidents. I asked about why this happens, and she (the girl I used to date) couldn't give me an answer other than "we need to save money as a company while promoting accountabilty," and all that jazz. Their rates are the highest in the nation. I would put my life in the hands of Allstate before LM. But I have Arbella. They're reasonable, and if they made the huge profits that LM does, then they (Arbella's execs) would be the ones standing with Mumbles holding the groundbreaking shovels.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Liberty Mutual plans major Boston expansion

See, I briefly dated a girl who worked at Liberty Mutual at their Acton Office (She but now stalks me, but that's besides the point). She was so proud of the "jobs that would be added (construction, private secor)."

On a personal level, they shouldn't even exist. I'm glad that something is being built in Boston. But Liberty Mutual? They drop people who've been in no-fault accidents. I asked about why this happens, and she (the girl I used to date) couldn't give me an answer other than "we need to save money as a company while promoting accountabilty," and all that jazz. Their rates are the highest in the nation. I would put my life in the hands of Allstate before LM. But I have Arbella. They're reasonable, and if they made the huge profits that LM does, then they (Arbella's execs) would be the ones standing with Mumbles holding the groundbreaking shovels.

Actually you might want to dump Arbella. They make Liberty Mutual look like the golden light.

Arbella will leave you high and dry if something serious happen. They try to beat me for 7 grand because they found a loophole.
I had to hire a lawyer and eventually they paid the full amount.

Be Careful. I guess when it all comes down to paying out big money the insurance companies will try to find anything to screw you.