Liberty Wharf | 220-270 Northern Ave | Seaport

Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Has a modern South St Seaport feel to it. Bring in some tall ships and you got an attraction.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

It seems like a very nice addition to the area since (at least based on the renderings) the architect isn't using any beige precast blah like the 4 building directly behind it.

The scale and massing seem appropriate and it will be the first project in the area to actively activate the waterfront (apart from the ICA).

Given how bad the previous building is, this is a home run in terms of the net improvement. Which leads to a more general philosophical question:

are people on the forum willing to give more slack to a project that is decent but not spectacular if it replaces an ugly structure/ a surface parking lot/ or otherwise dead space?
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Decent but not spectacular is OK. But I'd usually rather a project be done right or not at all.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Please more outdoor dining options!
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

I do like this a lot. It looks great.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

today 03-03-09
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Fan pier too
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Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

What a world-class waterfront boulevard. Vibes of Cannes!
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

not much happening yet 03-30-09
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Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Hope this is done in time for the Andrew Bird show at the BoA Pavilion.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

This will open Spring/Summer of 2010 - four restaurants, three of which are signed up, one still "for lease"

If all is executed as planned this will be a game changer for that area around Park Lane/WTC Complex. But it's a big "if" - Park Lane didn't look horrible in architect renderings either.

When this opens there will be 22(!) restaurants within one block of the WTC complex! If you work in the Financial District you're lucky to have half as many options within one block.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

When this opens there will be 22(!) restaurants within one block of the WTC complex! If you work in the Financial District you're lucky to have half as many options within one block.

True, but does this area really have anything but restaurants at this point?

And are they aren't they all so tucked away as to never confer the area the vibrancy of the Financial District during weekday lunch?
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Tucked away they most certainly are. If someone had asked me yesterday how many restaurants are in the area, I would've guessed a half dozen or so.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

I would have also guessed 4-8
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

I would have guessed 3. Do those 22 include McDonald's or something?
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Or are we talking a very big block?

I could probably come up with a decent amount, and the WTC complex is 4 blocks itself so 1 block adjacent to all bring that up to about 11 or 12 blocks of total area.

22 restaurants over 12 city blocks isn't that bad. With a few more residents, and office tenants + conventions. I could see those doing pretty well. It's all about at night though.

Need to at least double the actual residents down there and get people in from other neighborhoods. The pavilion helps when there's an event, but Mumbles wants to implode that too.

I was down that way last summer at night, and if you have tunnel vision right in the middle of the WTC/Manulife/Renaissance/Park Lane<gag> "oasis" you could convince yourself you were in a happening area.

We sat outside at LTK having drinks, the people were all dressed up and heading back and forth to something at the tent, it was kind of nice. I was a little shocked and a bit hopeful afterwards.

If this area starts growing a few blocks at a time, and blends in with Fort Point it will almost certainly be some kind of success. Maybe not architecturally (which if it was would help to make it an even bigger success), but in that it could actually be vibrant as far as people and stuff to do.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

The 22 restaurant number seems kind of insane, as I would have guessed maybe 5. It exemplifies the architectural failure in the Seaport. Buildings are designed so they do not interact with the street at all. Walking by you find blank walls of glass, precast or brick, sometimes set back behind useless patches of grass. I'm guessing you have to enter nondescript building lobbies to actually find these businesses.

I suppose that's not a liability if you intend for people to arrive via the parking garage.

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Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Grim surroundings.

Why?
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

That first photo of the vacant windows showcases an excellent lesson in how the government both helps and interferes with real estate development:

HELPS: The BRA decreed all ground floor space must be zoned for retail - to bring vibrancy and life to the streets.

HURTS: In a free market, retailers do not wish to be in the first floor of that particular office building, facing parking lots, with little foot traffic. Retailers look at the space and take a pass.

COMMON SENSE (the opposite of government): Allow the landlord to use the vacant retail space as something other than retail, to at least have a use with lights on, people working in the windows and such... government won't allow, it's "retail zoned only" so it stays vacant until retailers choose to lease there.

The rule meant to bring street life effectively kills the reality of any street life.

In my research on the area I have had extensive conversations with people at the World Trade Center complex and changes are coming... the property was built as an island with nothing around it. So everything is self-contained.

Ten years later it is time to open that property up and knit it into the surroundings - now that it has surroundings.

They get this, they know this, but the neighborhood may or may not be ready for it. Should they give away free rent to a retailer just to fill the space? Do the two law firms in that building want a McDonald's in their lobby? Who really wants to and can afford to rent that space? The market isn't there yet, and even in Boston, government only has so much reach.

There are six on-site restaurants at the WTC complex, more if you count the cafeteria food in the WTC itself. Seven if you count Dunkin Donuts.

1) Morton's
2) Fresh City
3) Sebastien's
4) Aura
5) Tamo
6) The Deli at the Seaport Hotel
(7) Dunkin Donuts
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

The World Trade Center building on the Harbor side of the street actually does a pretty decent job of interacting with the pedestrian traffic. Actually, the stretch from that new bar (sorry, can't remember the name, but it's the one run by the people who do Stadium) all the way down to the BoA Pavilion is pretty nice. The only issue, as everyone else is saying, is that it's in a sea of parking lots and office building's with blank walls. The ICA isn't helping at all by being off in it's own little corner with a moat of asphalt between it and the sidewalk.
 
Re: Jimmy's Harborside Development

Not to mention the area is served by a trolley-bus-no-wait-diesel-bus-no-wait-somehow-rail-wait-actually-logan-express.

Real transit would make this a destination worth developing, worth the investment in street level retail.
 

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