Logan Airport Capital Projects

If I am picking someone at the airport I simply wait in the cell phone lot and tell them to call me once they get to the curb (not once they get to baggage claim). That makes it easy and I don't have to loiter or circle the terminals waiting for them to get their bags, which as we all know can take some time.

Make the first half hour of short term parking be $5 and have the Staties continue to stay on top of people who overstay a reasonable amount of time at the curb.
 
If I am picking someone at the airport I simply wait in the cell phone lot and tell them to call me once they get to the curb (not once they get to baggage claim). That makes it easy and I don't have to loiter or circle the terminals waiting for them to get their bags, which as we all know can take some time.

Make the first half hour of short term parking be $5 and have the Staties continue to stay on top of people who overstay a reasonable amount of time at the curb.

Its been awhile since Ive been picked up, but I remember the cell phone lot was too small and at capacity. This might have changed.
 
Its been awhile since Ive been picked up, but I remember the cell phone lot was too small and at capacity. This might have changed.

It is, and it is. Hopefully, the APM will come with a better short-term lot.
 
I would like to spend the vehicle entrance fee on a gold line (or just the on-premises part of a Gold Line).

If Haymarket is the focus of a Gold Line, we might almost be able to get it for $0 operational expense just by introducing bus lanes on Congress St from Haymarket to South Station and on Summer St from Fort Point Channel to Pumphouse Rd and turning SL1 into a giant one way loop airport terminals -> Sumner Tunnel -> Haymarket -> South Station -> Convention Center -> Ted Williams Tunnel -> airport terminals.

Who pays today for the Logan Expresses? They should run more times an hour. But I also think that just as Back Bay needed a Logan Express, NS/Haymarket need one. If airside fees can't pay for that (really?) Landside fees should.

http://www.massport.com/logan-airport/to-from-logan/transportation-options/logan-express/framingham/ says Framingham Logan Express is $22 round trip per full fare adult. That leads me to suspect it is funded by the people who ride it and not by the people who benefit from parking at the airport being freed up.

I think it might be desirable for the Framingham Logan Express to make intermediate stops at Riverside, Newton Corner, and West Station.

Riverside looks like it's a bit of a detour by distance, but the detour looks like it's largely on relatively high speed roads so it probably doesn't take all that long. However, $22 round trip may not be all that popular compared to subway fare for D branch to Blue Line to shuttle bus or APM. Riverside is probably not worth stopping at for Logan Express unless the fare ends up somewhere in the $3 to $5 one way range.

The eastbound 400 Centre St stop at Newton Corner probably makes almost no change in the bus's odometer reading vs staying on the freeway, but for stopping there to be worthwhile they'd have to work out ticket sales infrastructure along with making the fare appealing enough. In the reverse direction, Washington St @ Bacon St is poorly located relative to the on ramp, and using it would force going all the way around the loop; maybe a stop could be added on the island just to the east of Centre St (near side at the first light after exiting I-90 westbound). Again, the fare would probably have to come down to make this worthwhile.

And then there's West Station, where the bus station renderings I've seen leave me with the impression that so far they've probably been planning to replicate the Washington St @ Bacon St inefficiencies. If Logan wants better transit connections, it would be great if they could advocate for a West Station busway that works more like 400 Centre St. And I can't imagine many people would want to pay $22 round trip for West Station to Logan, either, so that also would need a lower fare.

If Logan wants to spend $50 million on zero emissions transportation, rather than a study of an APM that will take 10 years to build (and is only a study and not actual useful transportation by itself), I have to wonder how far $50 million for battery powered buses that could be delivered in 2019 or 2020 might go. Getting roughly 50 buses plus charging infrastructure might be possible.

If we wanted more extensive MBTA bus connections into the Logan terminals, possibilities include

  • Haymarket and maybe North Station service, either as a dedicated route or perhaps as the big one way loop conversion of SL1
  • 116 extended to the airport terminals
  • Malden Orange Line -> Ferry St -> Chlesea St -> Everett Ave -> Meridian St -> Maverick Station (Blue Line Connection) -> airport terminal loop
  • Coolidge Corner (with C branch connection) -> Longwood Ave (including D branch connection) -> Huntington Ave (including E branch connection) -> Rugges St -> Ruggles Station (Orange Line connection) -> Melnea Cass Blvd -> Southampton St -> Andrew Station (Red Line connection) -> Dorchester Ave -> D St -> {Summer St -> Pumphouse Rd -> Massport Haul Rd -> The Ramp} / {Congress St in the opposite direction} -> Ted Williams Tunnel -> airport terminal loop
  • 134 extended to Everett's lower Broadway (casino connection) -> Beacham (with a congestion toll) -> Williams St -> Meridian St -> Maverick Station (Blue Line connection) -> airport terminal loop
 
I think it might be desirable for the Framingham Logan Express to make intermediate stops at Riverside, Newton Corner, and West Station.

I think adding stops defeats the entire point of Logan Express, which is a fast ride to the airport as reliable and quick as if you're driving yourself from that area, and with the cars being stored way out of town and not interfering with anything.

Newton Corner - Has express buses already. Express bus to SS -> SL is not exactly some huge barrier to use now. Additionally, anything using the exit 17 ramps is immediately subject to large time delays. It may not add anything to the odometer, but you're easily adding 15 minutes to the potential trip time for those Framingham passengers by making the bus take those ramps. There's also no parking here, so who's riding this thing? I don't think local volumes to the airport are high enough, Back Bay only works because of high business travel volume/transit nexus/population density there.

West Station - If West Station exists, getting to the existing Back Bay Logan Express should be pretty easy (or just riding in to switch to Blue), seems very unnecessary.

Riverside - With Framingham already existing, it doesn't seem like the catchment area makes a whole lot of sense. The Logan Express locations are situated at the routes into the city to be able to skim off a portion of those the people traveling from a wide range of areas towards the airport. Ex: Framingham catches everyone coming from the Western axis, whether that's Springfield, Worcester, or whatever. In contrast, Riverside's catchment area would be....people living right near 128, between roughly Norwood and Waltham (and duplicating the service Framingham provides). Also, getting off the Pike mainline, going around all the ramps, and getting back on again is not a trivial amount of time at peak hours, just as with Newton Corner.
 
I think adding stops defeats the entire point of Logan Express, which is a fast ride to the airport as reliable and quick as if you're driving yourself from that area, and with the cars being stored way out of town and not interfering with anything.

The existing Framingham Logan Express service only departs Logan once every half hour.

Is there some trick to only booking flights that will land with timing such that you'll always get to the Logan Express bus stop a minute before the bus arrives?

Adding more stops may increase ridership which in turn may justify improved frequency; it's possible that the average travel time from when a person arrives at the bus stop to when they get to their destination might improve if more stops being added leads to more demand which justifies more frequency.

Newton Corner - Has express buses already. Express bus to SS -> SL is not exactly some huge barrier to use now.

How often does the South Station to Newton Corner express bus run if your flight lands at 8:00 PM?

Additionally, anything using the exit 17 ramps is immediately subject to large time delays. It may not add anything to the odometer, but you're easily adding 15 minutes to the potential trip time for those Framingham passengers by making the bus take those ramps.

That seems a little hard to believe when the published weekday 57 bus schedule for a trip late in the morning rush hour is 8:06 Watertown Yard, 8:09 Washington @ Bacon, 8:11 400 Centre St, 8:11 Park St @Elmwood, 8:12 Tremont St opp Hibbard Rd, 8:12 Tremont St @ Waverly Ave; 6 minutes to cover a lot more than just a trip around most of the Newton Corner circle, and including dwell time at bus stops.

The road also appears to be wide enough that if traffic were a problem we could create a bus lane, and given 57 is a key bus route that ought to be justifiable.

There's also no parking here, so who's riding this thing? I don't think local volumes to the airport are high enough, Back Bay only works because of high business travel volume/transit nexus/population density there.

The whole point of making multiple stops is that you don't need to collect 40 passengers from each stop on every trip. Additionally, it would probably be possible to build a parking garage over the Pike at Newton Corner if that would be useful for airport travelers.

West Station - If West Station exists, getting to the existing Back Bay Logan Express should be pretty easy (or just riding in to switch to Blue), seems very unnecessary.

How many transfers do you expect for a West Station to airport terminal via Blue Line transit trip? Also, if you believe that, why shouldn't we just eliminate the Framingham Logan Express and tell people to take the Framingham Line to South Station and transfer to the SL1?

Riverside - With Framingham already existing, it doesn't seem like the catchment area makes a whole lot of sense. The Logan Express locations are situated at the routes into the city to be able to skim off a portion of those the people traveling from a wide range of areas towards the airport. Ex: Framingham catches everyone coming from the Western axis, whether that's Springfield, Worcester, or whatever. In contrast, Riverside's catchment area would be....people living right near 128, between roughly Norwood and Waltham (and duplicating the service Framingham provides). Also, getting off the Pike mainline, going around all the ramps, and getting back on again is not a trivial amount of time at peak hours, just as with Newton Corner.

How many Norwood and Waltham residents are going to drive out to Framingham to park there to take Logan Express?

And if the ramps to Riverside are congested at peak times, we should either look at whether we can add bus lanes there, or look at a congestion toll funding better transit to reduce the number of vehicles.
 
Some of the terminal b construction.

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If we wanted more extensive MBTA bus connections into the Logan terminals, possibilities include

  • Haymarket and maybe North Station service, either as a dedicated route or perhaps as the big one way loop conversion of SL1
  • 116 extended to the airport terminals
  • Malden Orange Line -> Ferry St -> Chlesea St -> Everett Ave -> Meridian St -> Maverick Station (Blue Line Connection) -> airport terminal loop
  • Coolidge Corner (with C branch connection) -> Longwood Ave (including D branch connection) -> Huntington Ave (including E branch connection) -> Rugges St -> Ruggles Station (Orange Line connection) -> Melnea Cass Blvd -> Southampton St -> Andrew Station (Red Line connection) -> Dorchester Ave -> D St -> {Summer St -> Pumphouse Rd -> Massport Haul Rd -> The Ramp} / {Congress St in the opposite direction} -> Ted Williams Tunnel -> airport terminal loop
  • 134 extended to Everett's lower Broadway (casino connection) -> Beacham (with a congestion toll) -> Williams St -> Meridian St -> Maverick Station (Blue Line connection) -> airport terminal loop

Also:

  • 34 - 16 - D St - TWT - airport loop
  • 18 - D St - TWT - airport loop
  • Late night 57 extended to the airport loop

Also, some variants from Andrew Station to the Ted Williams Tunnel could be followed; perhaps the Longwood to airport bus could go from Andrew Station along Dorchester St to E 8th (mirroring 11's route) to L St to Summer St (mirroring 7's route) to Pumphouse Rd, and perhaps 18 could continue up Dorchester Ave and then along A St (mirroring a different part of 11's route) and then follow Summer St (mirroring a different part of 7's route) to Pumphouse Rd.
 
Adding more stops may increase ridership which in turn may justify improved frequency; it's possible that the average travel time from when a person arrives at the bus stop to when they get to their destination might improve if more stops being added leads to more demand which justifies more frequency.

How often does the South Station to Newton Corner express bus run if your flight lands at 8:00 PM?

That seems a little hard to believe when the published weekday 57 bus schedule for a trip late in the morning rush hour is 8:06 Watertown Yard, 8:09 Washington @ Bacon, 8:11 400 Centre St, 8:11 Park St @Elmwood, 8:12 Tremont St opp Hibbard Rd, 8:12 Tremont St @ Waverly Ave; 6 minutes to cover a lot more than just a trip around most of the Newton Corner circle, and including dwell time at bus stops.

The road also appears to be wide enough that if traffic were a problem we could create a bus lane, and given 57 is a key bus route that ought to be justifiable.

The whole point of making multiple stops is that you don't need to collect 40 passengers from each stop on every trip. Additionally, it would probably be possible to build a parking garage over the Pike at Newton Corner if that would be useful for airport travelers.

How many Norwood and Waltham residents are going to drive out to Framingham to park there to take Logan Express?

And if the ramps to Riverside are congested at peak times, we should either look at whether we can add bus lanes there, or look at a congestion toll funding better transit to reduce the number of vehicles.

Spoken like someone who possibly has little familiarity with the area. Having lived and worked in this area until recently I can assure you almost none of these ideas are feasible in any way shape or form. First the demand created by adding stops that you would need in order to boost ridership to the point of increasing frequencies so much to make the rider faster would be astronomical compared to current numbers.

Second, lol at the city of Newton creating a bus lane or helping public transportation at all. Beyond that resistance it is not wide enough to add a bus lane, not at all. Things here are very congested almost all the time and the busses already cause issues crossing two/three lanes in rush hour traffic. Yes a bus lane would help that, but the problems caused by taking a lane away are too numerous.

Third, how many Norwood and Waltham residents are going to ride a bus to the airport even if it stopped on their front door? Not many I'm guessing.

Fourth, wait wait wait so you want to add a bus lane at Riverside and take away a lane on the on ramp at one of the busiest most congested points in all of Massachusetts? Do you drive a car my friend? And if yes, may I suggest you take a ride right now or tomorrow during rush hour and you will see the problem with this. And a congestion toll out here on 128 to help pay for your airport bus? You can take that toll and shove it, that is ridiculous on so many levels.
 
Spoken like someone who possibly has little familiarity with the area. Having lived and worked in this area until recently I can assure you almost none of these ideas are feasible in any way shape or form. First the demand created by adding stops that you would need in order to boost ridership to the point of increasing frequencies so much to make the rider faster would be astronomical compared to current numbers.

Second, lol at the city of Newton creating a bus lane or helping public transportation at all. Beyond that resistance it is not wide enough to add a bus lane, not at all. Things here are very congested almost all the time and the busses already cause issues crossing two/three lanes in rush hour traffic. Yes a bus lane would help that, but the problems caused by taking a lane away are too numerous.

Third, how many Norwood and Waltham residents are going to ride a bus to the airport even if it stopped on their front door? Not many I'm guessing.

Fourth, wait wait wait so you want to add a bus lane at Riverside and take away a lane on the on ramp at one of the busiest most congested points in all of Massachusetts? Do you drive a car my friend? And if yes, may I suggest you take a ride right now or tomorrow during rush hour and you will see the problem with this. And a congestion toll out here on 128 to help pay for your airport bus? You can take that toll and shove it, that is ridiculous on so many levels.

Nice first post.

Joel's post didn't deserve that level of response. He may or may not have been right or wrong, but how about making your points without the unnecessary attacks? Seriously, what drives someone to do something like that unprovoked?

Perhaps your best idea was lurking here your first three years without posting.
 
Spoken like someone who possibly has little familiarity with the area.

Stopped reading here. Who are you and why should we give a shit what you have to say when you start off like this?
 
Perhaps your best idea was lurking here your first three years without posting.

It probably took him 3 years to get approved by Briv.

But anyway, I think maybe there should be a bus from North Station to the Airport.
 
How many Norwood and Waltham residents are going to drive out to Framingham to park there to take Logan Express?

And if the ramps to Riverside are congested at peak times, we should either look at whether we can add bus lanes there, or look at a congestion toll funding better transit to reduce the number of vehicles.

I would guess people in Norwood drive to Braintree to catch the Logan Express as it's closer and easier than going out to Framingham. I'd also guess a lot of people in Waltham opt to take a cab or Uber to Logan given its close proximity to Boston and the Pike - it's a straight shot.

One thing MassDOT should do (it perhaps should have been a part of the large 128 add-a-lane project) is to reconfigure the exits for rte 16 and Grove street. A frontage road exit would be a nice way to make the whole area flow a bit smoother. You get off and onto the frontage road if you want to get to rte 16, or Grove street. Have a frontage road exit be in both directions. Right now those coming into 128 north from 16 have a short on-ramp and also have to deal with those that are getting off at Grove - the distance is very short and can create some hairy situations. This would go a long way improving traffic flow, making it safer and also avoid any backups for those going to Riverside onto 128.
 
I would guess people in Norwood drive to Braintree to catch the Logan Express as it's closer and easier than going out to Framingham. I'd also guess a lot of people in Waltham opt to take a cab or Uber to Logan given its close proximity to Boston and the Pike - it's a straight shot.

One thing MassDOT should do (it perhaps should have been a part of the large 128 add-a-lane project) is to reconfigure the exits for rte 16 and Grove street. A frontage road exit would be a nice way to make the whole area flow a bit smoother. You get off and onto the frontage road if you want to get to rte 16, or Grove street. Have a frontage road exit be in both directions. Right now those coming into 128 north from 16 have a short on-ramp and also have to deal with those that are getting off at Grove - the distance is very short and can create some hairy situations. This would go a long way improving traffic flow, making it safer and also avoid any backups for those going to Riverside onto 128.

Not sure how many people do it but Norwood to South Station to the Silver Line would be easy.
 
With a suitcase or kids and their suitcases?

The idea of three transfers with small children and luggage sounds a bit like juggling switch blades which are on fire while balancing on a high wire over a pit of vipers.
 
With a suitcase or kids and their suitcases?

I'm not sure what the point of your comment is, but it raises an interesting question that I haven't been able to answer with some light googling. Perhaps someone knows a good resource to get this answer:


What percentage of air travelers are children?



Anecdotally, as a moderate-frequency flier, I would put it somewhere deep down in the single digits percentage-wise. Maybe at Christmas and Thanksgiving it gets close to 3-4%? I would love to see real data.

My hypothesis is: children fliers and their parents are pretty close to irrelevant in airport transportation planning. The few folks with children in tow ought to use cars and taxis. Buses and trains simply aren't a good fit for them and that is just fine.
 
I'm not sure what the point of your comment is, but it raises an interesting question that I haven't been able to answer with some light googling. Perhaps someone knows a good resource to get this answer:


What percentage of air travelers are children?



Anecdotally, as a moderate-frequency flier, I would put it somewhere deep down in the single digits percentage-wise. Maybe at Christmas and Thanksgiving it gets close to 3-4%? I would love to see real data.

My hypothesis is: children fliers and their parents are pretty close to irrelevant in airport transportation planning. The few folks with children in tow ought to use cars and taxis. Buses and trains simply aren't a good fit for them and that is just fine.

Agreed. it's always a red herring to throw out these ridiculous scenarios.

"What about those of us with a 95 year old grandparent that requires an oxygen tank, our 7 kids, and the 4 St bernards? The Silver Line won't cut it"

Who gives a shit about your scenario.

Yes, there are kids flying on December 23 and on the flights Orlando. But most flyers are adults traveling alone.

You dont have to satisfy everybody to solve the big issues.
 

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