Logan Airport Flights and Airlines Discussion

czsz said:
This is fine if you can afford to lose a day. Many business travelers to Europe are expected to sleep on the flight and be in meetings the next morning right after they arrive.
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I have taken the daylight flight to LHR on AA a few times. I am not a big fan of it. It feels like your whole day was spent on the plane and It takes a decent amount of time to get adjusted.
 
czsz said:
This is fine if you can afford to lose a day. Many business travelers to Europe are expected to sleep on the flight and be in meetings the next morning right after they arrive.

If it's London, the overnight flight from Boston is not long enough for a decent sleep. It's not wise to attend a meeting where everyone, except you, is alert.
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If it's London, the overnight flight from Boston is not long enough for a decent sleep. It's not wise to attend a meeting where everyone, except you, is alert.
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Agreed, but time is money, and so expectations follow.
 
Yes, I was stating my personal preference. Obviously, daylight flights aren't appropriate for everyone's situations, which is why 99.9% of transatlantic traffic is overnight and the daylight flights usually have way lower yields than evening flights. I was speaking less of the business traveller and more of the leisure traveller going to London.

Mass88, when you took the daylight flight, did you sleep on the plane? I never had an issue because I was up at about 5am and forced myself to stay awake through the flight so the sleep deprivation made me tired enough to go to bed at about 10pm London time. That said, I generally don't have a hard time getting used to the time difference going east, so maybe it's just me.
 
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/09/jetblue_plans_f.html

JetBlue is adding season service to Turks and Caicos starting this upcoming winter. It now brings JetBlue's total non-stop destinations from BOS up to 40.

Also, the CEO of JetBlue was down in New Orleans recently and he said the flight there are profitable and hinted that an addition frequency on BOS-MSY would happen. They currently fly BOS-MSY once daily year round.
 
I actually just did the jetblue boston-new orleans flight friday and back on monday. It was near full both ways on an E190.
 
mass88 said:
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/09/jetblue_plans_f.html

JetBlue is adding season service to Turks and Caicos starting this upcoming winter. It now brings JetBlue's total non-stop destinations from BOS up to 40.

Also, the CEO of JetBlue was down in New Orleans recently and he said the flight there are profitable and hinted that an addition frequency on BOS-MSY would happen. They currently fly BOS-MSY once daily year round.
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Is the Turks flight daily during it's seasonal run?

Would be cool if JetBlue can go into Mexico from Boston.

Another note is JetBlue is launching Boston-Newark service.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/08/jetblue_is_addi.html?camp=obinsite
 
palindrome said:
I actually just did the jetblue boston-new orleans flight friday and back on monday. It was near full both ways on an E190.
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With Southern Decadence happening in NOLA over the Labor Day Weekend, I imagine the flights would be full!
 
Good article on the fares at Boston Logan.

http://www.boston.com/travel/articles/2010/10/18/logan_travelers_benefit_as_airlines_battle/


Also, I see Iceland Express is starting service on the same route as Icelandair. Is the demand really that high for service to Reykjavik?

Looking at wikipedia (yeah, I know, take it with a grain of salt), I noticed a few things:

1) I never realized how big of an operation Delta has out of Logan in terms of number of flights, destinations, and gates. Now they're building on that with a daily non-stop flight to London-Heathrow. Any chance we'll see KLM-metal to Amsterdam, or is Delta's daily flight (codeshared with KLM) to Amsterdam enough?

2) Is American basically pulling out of Boston in terms of being anything bigger than flights to its hubs. They're ending flights to non-hub cities and if the rumors are true on British Airways taking over all of alliance's flights to London-Heathrow, it seems American will re-focus it's attention elsewhere.

3) I flew into Logan the other day. I know Air One and Alitalia merged, but I noticed it was the Air One metal in Boston at the international terminal. Is Alitalia still flying to Boston?

4) Any whispers on new routes or expansion/pulldowns coming?

5) I've never noticed how much service Boston gets to smaller, less known international destinations (and airlines as well). Besides Iceland, they have service with TACV to Praia (Cape Verde) and SATA to Ponta Delgada, Lisbon, and Terceira.
 
Oakley said:
Good article on the fares at Boston Logan.

http://www.boston.com/travel/articles/2010/10/18/logan_travelers_benefit_as_airlines_battle/


Also, I see Iceland Express is starting service on the same route as Icelandair. Is the demand really that high for service to Reykjavik?

Looking at wikipedia (yeah, I know, take it with a grain of salt), I noticed a few things:

1) I never realized how big of an operation Delta has out of Logan in terms of number of flights, destinations, and gates. Now they're building on that with a daily non-stop flight to London-Heathrow. Any chance we'll see KLM-metal to Amsterdam, or is Delta's daily flight (codeshared with KLM) to Amsterdam enough?

2) Is American basically pulling out of Boston in terms of being anything bigger than flights to its hubs. They're ending flights to non-hub cities and if the rumors are true on British Airways taking over all of alliance's flights to London-Heathrow, it seems American will re-focus it's attention elsewhere.

3) I flew into Logan the other day. I know Air One and Alitalia merged, but I noticed it was the Air One metal in Boston at the international terminal. Is Alitalia still flying to Boston?

4) Any whispers on new routes or expansion/pulldowns coming?

5) I've never noticed how much service Boston gets to smaller, less known international destinations (and airlines as well). Besides Iceland, they have service with TACV to Praia (Cape Verde) and SATA to Ponta Delgada, Lisbon, and Terceira.
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Iceland is a pretty good place to connect to Northern Europe and the airport is not as congested as say Heathrow or Charles De Gaulle.

1. Delta and KLM has ATI which means they both share in the profits and cost of the flight. So it really doesn't matter who flies it. It would be nice to see KLM metal at Logan, but Delta throws a large plane on the route so that's fine.

2. American, over the last year plus, has begun shifting capacity to their main hubs. Those hubs at Miami, New York - JFK, Chicago, Dallas/Ft. Worth and Los Angeles. They are cutting back on point 2 point flying and Boston has seen a large amount of cuts. It also has not helped that the LCCs have made large inroads at BOS. BA will probably not end up taking over all LHR-USA flights. Besides, Boston is one of London's largest destinations in North American and as such, Logan will always see solid service. One good thing to come out of the recently signed ATI between Iberia, American and British Airways is that BOS-CDG could go year round with a 752 and BOS-MAD could also go daily year round with a 752 during Oct-Apr and then a 343 during May-Sept.

3. Alitalia still runs year round daily BOS-FCO service, but Air One fills in with their 332s on some days. Alitalia and Air One have merged.

4. The legacies, Delta, American, US Air and United/Continental are probably not going to see any more cuts. United/Continental never had a focus operation at BOS so they will not be cutting anything, or adding anything. American will probably not make any more major cuts, now that SFO is gone. They pretty much only have flights to their hubs at this point.

JetBlue and Southwest are probably likely to expand their BOS operations. with the merged United and Continental moving over to Terminal B, JetBlue now has some space to grow. With Southwest acquiring AirTran, they may shift some flights around and maybe we will finally get non-stop service to Nashville.

5. The Boston area and Eastern Mass area is home a large amount of Portuguese, specifically those from the Azores and also from Cape Verde. When Anthony Bourdain went to the Azores for his No Reservations show, he went to Fall River first to get a preview.....that says something.
 
mass88 said:
Iceland is a pretty good place to connect to Northern Europe and the airport is not as congested as say Heathrow or Charles De Gaulle.

1. Delta and KLM has ATI which means they both share in the profits and cost of the flight. So it really doesn't matter who flies it. It would be nice to see KLM metal at Logan, but Delta throws a large plane on the route so that's fine.

2. American, over the last year plus, has begun shifting capacity to their main hubs. Those hubs at Miami, New York - JFK, Chicago, Dallas/Ft. Worth and Los Angeles. They are cutting back on point 2 point flying and Boston has seen a large amount of cuts. It also has not helped that the LCCs have made large inroads at BOS. BA will probably not end up taking over all LHR-USA flights. Besides, Boston is one of London's largest destinations in North American and as such, Logan will always see solid service. One good thing to come out of the recently signed ATI between Iberia, American and British Airways is that BOS-CDG could go year round with a 752 and BOS-MAD could also go daily year round with a 752 during Oct-Apr and then a 343 during May-Sept.

3. Alitalia still runs year round daily BOS-FCO service, but Air One fills in with their 332s on some days. Alitalia and Air One have merged.

4. The legacies, Delta, American, US Air and United/Continental are probably not going to see any more cuts. United/Continental never had a focus operation at BOS so they will not be cutting anything, or adding anything. American will probably not make any more major cuts, now that SFO is gone. They pretty much only have flights to their hubs at this point.

JetBlue and Southwest are probably likely to expand their BOS operations. with the merged United and Continental moving over to Terminal B, JetBlue now has some space to grow. With Southwest acquiring AirTran, they may shift some flights around and maybe we will finally get non-stop service to Nashville.

5. The Boston area and Eastern Mass area is home a large amount of Portuguese, specifically those from the Azores and also from Cape Verde. When Anthony Bourdain went to the Azores for his No Reservations show, he went to Fall River first to get a preview.....that says something.
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I know Virgin Atlantic has a daily flight to Heathrow with Delta starting, or have started, a daily flight as well. I was saying BA would take over all the Boston-Heathrow flights for the BA-AA alliance. Is most of the traffic to London connecting or is it O&D on both ends? Any particular businesses or sectors that drive the demand between Boston and London?

With AA and UA/CA mostly flying to just hub cities at this point, it seems like Delta is committed on turning Boston into a focus city. US Airways has always had a focus city of sorts in Boston.

Nashville would be a good flight. Enough traffic to support a flight?

Didn't know that about the large population of Portuguese(as you said, specifically those from the Azores and also from Cape Verde) in Boston and eastern MA. I take it those flights are mostly leisure travelers?
 
Oakley said:
I know Virgin Atlantic has a daily flight to Heathrow with Delta starting, or have started, a daily flight as well. I was saying BA would take over all the Boston-Heathrow flights for the BA-AA alliance. Is most of the traffic to London connecting or is it O&D on both ends? Any particular businesses or sectors that drive the demand between Boston and London?

With AA and UA/CA mostly flying to just hub cities at this point, it seems like Delta is committed on turning Boston into a focus city. US Airways has always had a focus city of sorts in Boston.

Nashville would be a good flight. Enough traffic to support a flight?

Didn't know that about the large population of Portuguese(as you said, specifically those from the Azores and also from Cape Verde) in Boston and eastern MA. I take it those flights are mostly leisure travelers?
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Given that there are currently 7 daily flights with 5 of 7 being on wide bodies, more than half the traffic is connecting. LHR is a massive hub and funnels a ton of traffic between BOS and the rest of Europe. Boston is one of the largest finance centers in North America, London is the largest in the world, so finance is a big boon to the route. I believe only New York, Chicago and maybe Washington, D.C. have more local, O&D traffic than Boston does. Los Angeles is quite large too.

Also, I there is a good chance that BA will overtake the AA BOS-LHR flights. If this happens, I can see BA going 4 daily year round. Then you would have 7 year round daily flights between DL, VS and BA.

US Air has cut Boston down slowly over the last 3-4 years. They recently cut pretty much all seasonal BOS-Caribbean flights. Delta too has cut Boston back over the last few years. Florida is down to just Orlando (there used to be service to Ft. Lauderdale, Ft. Meyers, Tamp and West Palm Beach on mainline). They did bring back LAS on a 1x week basis which was nice. Right now I would take a wait and see approach to them establishing a focus city.

Boston-Nashville has under 200 passengers a day, but given a non-stop flight, the market will see some stimulation. The O&D numbers used to be higher when there was a non-stop flight.
 
mass88 said:
JetBlue and Southwest are probably likely to expand their BOS operations. with the merged United and Continental moving over to Terminal B, JetBlue now has some space to grow. With Southwest acquiring AirTran, they may shift some flights around and maybe we will finally get non-stop service to Nashville.
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So if United/Continental move to Terminal B, who leaves B for A?
 
mass88 said:
Given that there are currently 7 daily flights with 5 of 7 being on wide bodies, more than half the traffic is connecting. LHR is a massive hub and funnels a ton of traffic between BOS and the rest of Europe. Boston is one of the largest finance centers in North America, London is the largest in the world, so finance is a big boon to the route. I believe only New York, Chicago and maybe Washington, D.C. have more local, O&D traffic than Boston does. Los Angeles is quite large too.

Also, I there is a good chance that BA will overtake the AA BOS-LHR flights. If this happens, I can see BA going 4 daily year round. Then you would have 7 year round daily flights between DL, VS and BA.

US Air has cut Boston down slowly over the last 3-4 years. They recently cut pretty much all seasonal BOS-Caribbean flights. Delta too has cut Boston back over the last few years. Florida is down to just Orlando (there used to be service to Ft. Lauderdale, Ft. Meyers, Tamp and West Palm Beach on mainline). They did bring back LAS on a 1x week basis which was nice. Right now I would take a wait and see approach to them establishing a focus city.

Boston-Nashville has under 200 passengers a day, but given a non-stop flight, the market will see some stimulation. The O&D numbers used to be higher when there was a non-stop flight.
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I know the connecting traffic is a big part of the flights to Heathrow. Just wasn't sure how big.

Interesting on Nashville? Where you get the O&D numbers such as Nashville's? Is this online? If not, any idea of how much traffic moves between Boston and Tel Aviv/Israel?
 
For domestic numbers:

http://www.faremeasure.com/View-Airport-BOS-Logan_International_Airport.html

As for Israel I'm not sure what the numbers are but the general consensus on Boston-Israel is that there's a fairly significant amount of traffic between the two places, but a lack of premium demand is holding the airlines back from entering the market. If I recall correctly even Miami has lost its Israel flight and Miami has a far more significant Israeli expat population plus a lot more in the way of high end tourism. From what I've heard Swiss and Lufthansa do a very good business on connections from Boston to Israel.
 
stellarfun said:
So if United/Continental move to Terminal B, who leaves B for A?
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I actually didn't realize that the UA/CO move to B was official yet (there had been rumblings). The assumptions I've seen on other sites have had the minor carriers like Frontier and Alaska moving to A, or perhaps moving into a couple of gates in C to create a true low-cost hub in C/Former D. Typically, US Airways stays put to turn that side of B into a Star Alliance terminal, along with Air Canada.

The math of this move is a mess, since Logan simply is not designed to for these mergers in terms of terminal size. I've worked out a couple of sketches in my free time of how this could be remedied relatively easily, but it would take serious construction, and Massport seems more inclined to renovate these days (and they're doing it pretty well).
 
Equilibria said:
I've worked out a couple of sketches in my free time of how this could be remedied relatively easily, but it would take serious construction, and Massport seems more inclined to renovate these days (and they're doing it pretty well).
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Just out of curiosity, along what lines have your sketches been, additions to the terminal layout as it is now or knocking down and rebuilding the whole terminal/parking arrangement?
 
Equilibria said:
I actually didn't realize that the UA/CO move to B was official yet (there had been rumblings). The assumptions I've seen on other sites have had the minor carriers like Frontier and Alaska moving to A, or perhaps moving into a couple of gates in C to create a true low-cost hub in C/Former D. Typically, US Airways stays put to turn that side of B into a Star Alliance terminal, along with Air Canada.

The math of this move is a mess, since Logan simply is not designed to for these mergers in terms of terminal size. I've worked out a couple of sketches in my free time of how this could be remedied relatively easily, but it would take serious construction, and Massport seems more inclined to renovate these days (and they're doing it pretty well).
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Mass88 was the poster who said United/Continental would move to B. If so, it would seem, if American is reducing its flights, that it would move to A, and its gates would be given to United/Continental. Just my two cents. I think the problem for United is that some of its flights, e.g., going to Denver or San Francisco, don't lend themselves to quick turns at the gate.
 
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