MA Casino Developments

Are these casinos going to be able to give out free booze to players?
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Once Pawtucket commuter rail station opens it's a transfer to RIPTA Route 73 at the station and 18 minutes door-to-door to Twin River. Frequencies on all the RIPTA routes at Pawtucket terminal are scheduled to increase a lot when the CR station links to it. All TR needs to do is public-private themselves a transit deal like Wynn is doing with after-hours Orange service to add some 73 evening frequencies. That opens the floodgates to Massachusetts patronage. It'll be quicker and easier to get to Twin River from Mansfield than it is driving two towns over on Route 106 to Plainridge. The GATRA bus out of Attleboro can't compete either, since that takes twice as long to get to Plainville and simply doesn't traverse enough density to fill any usefully increased off-peak frequencies.

Twin River already advertises heavily in the Boston TV market. Once the accessibility catches up to them with RIDOT transit improvements currently in-design, it's game over for Plainridge.


Taunton doesn't become more accessible unless you do something about the godawful capacity pinch on Route 24 between 495 and 140. It's hell on earth at commute hours and on summer weekends--the only such spot on a highway that's otherwise free-and-clear south to Fall River and north to Stoughton--and MassDOT has no funds or plans to fix it. And commuter rail is not coming down the street...not even a Taunton Phase I at this point. I think their regional reach is going to be very limited with that part of the state being a population cavity outside of Taunton-proper and Fall River/New Bedford. They'd have to bank hard on patronage from FR/NB because too many points east on the South Shore and Cape have transit access dropping them off a South Station-Wynn shuttle away from ritzier environs, and easier highway access when Cape traffic's in offseason. Travel time really isn't that different despite short crow-flies distance unless you've got the luxury of a straight shot up 24 or 140 from Fall River/Newport or New Bedford.

Twin River already has pretty firm mindshare west of the Taunton River in places like Somerset, Swansea, Rehoboth, Seekonk that are Providence suburbs by any other name.


It really depends on how well the tribe executes on the resort, because they're going to be roughing for that first decade with all the FUBAR'd transportation right on their doorstep that's not going to get fixed any time soon. I'd predict a slow grower...slower than expected. But if they know what they're doing it can be a success.

Plainridge? I give them less than dozen years before they're out-of-business. Shit location, and Twin River's going to slay them when they gain tenfold better transit access in 5-8 years.

I just don't see anywhere the state can hang that SE license. Taunton, if done right, satisfies the market demand. Brockton is D.O.A. You simply can't plop a casino next door to the high school. It's already cultivated opposition on steroids, and the case for it was weak enough to begin with. All of the machinations with that license just reek of blocking games to keep Taunton at bay. Now that that's shot and Plainridge looks like it has no plausible path to success, nobody who knows what they're doing is going to stick their necks out for that region.

The only question is how long it takes for the Gaming Commission to realize it's only going to fill two licenses, and get down to business instead of chasing weak-to-nonexistent prospects with #3. It wasn't meant to be.
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F-Line -- I don't think the Twin River -- Plainridge Contretemps has anything to do with transit frequencies

Twin River has two insurmountable advantages -- it has table games and you can smoke [mostly affects the 2 fisted slots players with a drink in one hand and cloud of smoke]

No and No at Plainridge -- that is a real problem for them

Wynn will of course have table games but I don't think you will be able to smoke
 
whighlander said:
F-Line -- I don't think the Twin River -- Plainridge Contretemps has anything to do with transit frequencies

Twin River has two insurmountable advantages -- it has table games and you can smoke [mostly affects the 2 fisted slots players with a drink in one hand and cloud of smoke]

No and No at Plainridge -- that is a real problem for them

Wynn will of course have table games but I don't think you will be able to smoke
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People that don't smoke, don't like smoke. Which is the majority of people. And people that do smoke die sooner, so I think catering to smokers is a competitive disadvantage. A niche for sure, but not an advantage.
 
No smoking as "real problem" for attracting viable resort patronage. What century is this again? :rolleyes:

Please, please enlighten us with the imaginary whigh-logic behind that claim. That would be an ever-so whimsical way to start off a Wednesday morning.



Smoking is only an "attraction" at the tribal casinos because they can obscenely overcharge over wholesale price on a concessions item, but as long as it's 10% cheaper than the ciggies tax outside of tribal lands they've got a captive audience of addicts who'll simply do an hour's drive-by to stock up on a two-month supply of cartons.

*Maybe* that mattered to Foxwoods for a brief shining moment back in '92 when the casino had just replaced the dilapidated roadside smoke shack that was once the tribe's only revenue source. But it's a rounding error on their concessions revenue now, and a fast-declining one at that. Free-for-all smoking is a liability, not a feature, for any resort trying to attract a diverse and/or marketable audience that'll be coming back for 20 more years instead of seeing their fun-and-games revenue diverted to health premiums...and end-of-life care. The increased smoking vs. no-smoking area segregation over time at Foxwoods and Mohegan speaks to the raw, unadulterated free market forces therein. I remember quite well the light-up anywhere era of the late-90's out there. The required recovery day-after for my throat and watery eyes to get back to normal made me not want to come back. Until I heard back from friends that you could now spend a day playing slots and not ever have to be poisoned and depressed by all the grannies with oxygen masks sucking down Marlbros while lifelessly plugging quarters.



Sure...maybe there's an old-time charm to that. Just like I'm sure there's at least one dude sitting on his Barcalounger at a nursing home in Saugus shedding a wistful tear for days of yore when unemployed winos, aging mobsters, and the occasional down-on-his-luck registered sex offender could commiserate over hopes and dreams in the empty stands at Wonderland.

That guy is not a mass-market entertainment target audience for anyone except for catheter salesmen and those reverse-mortgage companies that Fred Thompson used to endorse on the TV.
 
aaaaaa said:
Less than a fifth
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Yes -- overall -- however, the percentage rises for people with less education and also among older people -- and also recent immigrants and foreign tourists

Older and less educated are two of the prime demographics for the Slots parlors

By the way -- if you don't believe the above -- take a drive to a Casino and spend a few minutes in the slots area

So -- once again why drive to Twin Rivers when you have Plainridge:
1) you already go to Plainridge and have one of their cards
2) You like to smoke when you play slots
3) You are higher end casino clientele and you play table games

the only one which Plainridge can change is the habit of going to Twin Rivers
 
Because there's nothing at the area casinos except single-task slots parlors, and entertainment-smorgasboard casinos like the ones being built for Everett, Taunton, and Springfield are all about getting the quick-picks and Keno crowd to get out of line at Cumby's, get in their cars, and tune out the world for 6 hours seated in front of a single machine. All because of the overwhelming market demand vacated by those bygone days playing the ponies and doggies in Raynham and 80's-decay era Revere constitutes such a sorely under-served demographic. One that's so stable and growing as housing and rents around the metropolis skyrocket. Pay no attention to Plainridge's staggering start picking single-task parlor over family entertainment spread. They got this thing. Except the smokes......gotta have the smokes.

Can't substantiate this with numbers or anything, and the Wikipedial copypasta surely to come in the even more off-topic follow-up post will do absolutely nothing to address the question. But AB's own Honorary Mayor of Lexington has a vivid imagination about things...so checkersmate, you pink-lunged heathens.
 
Whigh the percentage of people who smoke actually gets smaller as you go up in the age brackets after the 25-44 year range so I don't think most older people want to sit in a smoky room. Not Sure why you didn't even take two seconds to look at the chart and see that your "well more old people smoke" is wrong.
 
citylover94 said:
Whigh the percentage of people who smoke actually gets smaller as you go up in the age brackets after the 25-44 year range so I don't think most older people want to sit in a smoky room. Not Sure why you didn't even take two seconds to look at the chart and see that your "well more old people smoke" is wrong.
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City -- the problem with those kinds of portrayals of data is that things get "homogenized"

To get a meaningful comparison you would need to compare white males with advanced degrees and white males with GEDs or less at the same age

The chart shows something which lumps into the same "over 60 category" a CEO of some Tech company and a retired blue collar guy

One has smoked his entire life and is hanging out at the slots parlor with a drink and cigarette, while the other is doing 100 miles on a Peloton in the office while video conferencing to the corporate technology officer at at conference in Tokyo

Its a bit like the old one foot in ice water the other in boiling water the mean of the two seems fairly comfortable

The other problem with such a chart is that if you get into the lung cancer and COPD years [say beyond 70] then the number of long-time smokers who are still alive and still smoking drops rather dramatically
 
aaaaaa said:
Again, from the CDC, "Nearly 9 of every 100 adults aged 65 years and older (8.5%)."

And although smoking prevalence is indeed higher among the less educated it does not come close to a plurality. "Nearly 23 of every 100 adults with 12 or fewer years of education (no diploma) (22.9%)."

So although you've "spent a few minutes" at a slot parlor, you're wrong about allowing smoking being an " insurmountable advantage."
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aaaa -- you didn't read what I wrote very thoroughly

If you have a population of potential users of your facility, and you don't offer something that even a small fraction find essential, and which your competitor does offer to them -- well then you lose those people

We can argue as to how many "those people" constitute -- but Plainridge will lose most of the people who smoke to Twin Rivers

While, I have never smoked, I've been around enough of my family who have smoked to understand the primal urge -- just take a look at the smokers just deplaning making a run to the outside in the US or the smoking lounge in many EU airports -- they are desperate for a "hit" of nicotine
 
Anyone who placed bets on "no numbers to back up claim / bunch of irrelevant nonsense to distract from the question", pick up your imaginary $5 and have a smoke.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Anyone who placed bets on "no numbers to back up claim / bunch of irrelevant nonsense to distract from the question", pick up your imaginary $5 and have a smoke.
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F-Line -- By the way what do you think the question is that we are discussing?

I'll give you a hint -- it has nothing to do with Commuter Rail availability or build-outs
 
whighlander said:
F-Line -- By the way what do you think the question is that we are discussing?

I'll give you a hint -- it has nothing to do with Commuter Rail availability or build-outs
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Your assertion that smoking and poor people being able to play slots is the "insurmountable" make-or-break point for casinos, and complete aversion to providing any factual evidence to back that up.


That was easy! Your turn. What's the next word-salad deflection, Professor?
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Your assertion that smoking and poor people being able to play slots is the "insurmountable" make-or-break point for casinos, and complete aversion to providing any factual evidence to back that up.


That was easy! Your turn. What's the next word-salad deflection, Professor?
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F-Line -- what I said was that the barrier for Plainridge to overcome relative to Twin Rivers was built out of 3 elements:

1) existing habit of going to Twin Rivers -- could be changed by marketing campaign
2) No table games -- unless the Legislature changes the rules -- this can not be overcome for that market segment to whom table games are important
3) NO Smoking at Plainridge and currently smoking at Twin Rivers -- for those who are dedicated smokers this again can not be overcome by Plainridge barring action by either Legislature [MA to allow or RI to prohibit]

It's not nearly as complicated as the relationships between Green Line vehicle manufactures and the T with the Fed's thrown-in for completeness

Now -all that said Plainridge may yet succeed as its not even one year old yet and writing it off is probably premature
 
Without reading so much uninformed posts..... smoking is and has always been a consideration at casinos. They have always gone hand in hand, and casinos don't like losing possible revenue. They pay very high prices up front for HVAC systems that provide much higher air change rates than would normally be needed to ensure non-smokers and smokers can co-exist. This isn't 1972 watching Sinatra at the Sand's. This is modern day resort casinos.

They are also looking to attract foreign gamers, many of which have surprisingly high stats for smokers.

From the NY Times
"There are more than 300 million smokers in China. Nearly 30 percent of adults smoke, including 53 percent of all men. The proportion of people who smoke has remained steady since 2006, but with the population growing, China gained almost 100 million smokers between 1980 and 2012.Apr 17, 2014"

From Wikipedia.
In 2014, the adult smoking rate was 19.7%, 30.3% of Japanese men and 9.8% of Japanese women;[3] this is the lowest recorded figure since Japan Tobacco began surveying in 1965.[4] As of 2005, nearly 30 million people smoke in Japan, making the country one of the world's larger tobacco markets[5]

Regional casinos... this isn't as big a deal. But, to consider it a non factor in our modern enlightened world, is very unenlightened.
 
Another big reason I was told while I was in Las Vegas was if people have to step outside to smoke the Casino is losing time/money where people could be gambling. Another reason is people have 2 second attention spans and once you get outside on the strip you see something shiny with fancy lights and walk over there to check it out. Best to keep people inside smoking and spending money. A 15 minute smoke break per person is 15 minutes of time that those each of those people are not gambling.
 
I will say. I have agreed to most or all of F-Lines traffic posts up until the one on the previous page as well. While, I don' agree with Westy that often. But, commuter rail availability is very low on the list of why people might choose the casino in Twin Rivers over Taunton. The understanding of driving habits of people on the South Shore is lacking. Anything north of Boston is seen as a pain in the ass. Subway or trains don't change that for the majority down here. An easy drive along 495, 24, 44, 104, etc. to Taunton is much more do-able for the folks down here. Going to either Taunton or Brockton would be seen as much easier than going to Everrett for most people south of Quincy, and for any in Quincy.

I won't say either are tops, all though I would pick the Brockton location as preferable to Taunton based on central location to a regional population with less overlap to RI. Yor assertions of the steroid induced backlash to being located across from the high school is overblown as well (it did pass the vote in the City without my help as I couldn't make it to vote that day.) I have yet to hear a reasonable or rational argument as to why the location is soo bad "won't someone please think of the children" shrieking doesn't do it for me.

For the hell of it, I had proposed that location as one of the best available for a casino 4 or 5 years ago when this conversation really was starting out.

Taunton not being on a rail line, and without solid regional bus service (much bigger deal) are additional things that hurt that location. Multiple stops in Brockton on the train and it's own BAT bus service (which is a very good local bus service) are much better than Taunton's. Our section of 24 doesn't have the lane drop to deal with either.

I'm not fooling myself into thinking one would be built in my city, but it's a much better location IMO. Unfortunately, our continual slide into a welfare state and constant negative news items and violence, do not help what's so ever. Of course the direct shot off 24 without going into the hood does help those from a little further away who are scared by the stories. Those coming in on 123 and 27 know Brockton ain't that bad.
 
Taunton casino groundbreaking set for April 5!

Mashpee tribe planning April 5 ground breaking for Taunton casino

By George Brennan
The Cape Cod Times

Posted Mar. 7, 2016 at 3:35 PM
Updated at 9:15 AM

AR-160306674.jpg&MaxW=650


...
The tribe announced Monday that it has hired three contractors – Dimeo Construction Co., The Penta Building Group and Talako Construction LLC – for the project and work is expected to begin April 5.

The process is expected to begin with demolition of existing buildings at the property and site work preparation, according to a statement from the tribe. The tribe’s land in Taunton is located in the Liberty & Union Industrial Park.
...

Full article: http://www.tauntongazette.com/article/20160307/NEWS/160306674
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