MA Casino Developments

[kjdonovan]

[
This is possibly one of the worst locations.
#1 First the chemical cleanup
#2 Traffic Scenario (will put the northshore on Gridlock)

#1 The chemical cleanup should happen anyway. This location is two miles from downtown Boston. It is within walking distance of two Orange Line stops (with a possible ped crossing at the dam). It should be redeveloped. A casino is a viable option for this as it merits the expense of the cleanup.

#2 How is it a sound argument that building something that will attract a lot of people a good reason not to build it? Route 16 and Route 1 are gridlocked as it is, not because there's anything there worth the traffic (except the Kowloon) but because of poor infrastructure and design.

 

[hockey92]

This is just a crazy childish fantasy but imagine a huge rollercoaster and a giant ferris wheel at the location wynn wants with a bowling alley/D&Bs I feel like that could have some pretty sweet veiws of the city and would be profitable

 

[TheRifleman]

#1 The chemical cleanup should happen anyway. This location is two miles from downtown Boston. It is within walking distance of two Orange Line stops (with a possible ped crossing at the dam). It should be redeveloped. A casino is a viable option for this as it merits the expense of the cleanup.

#2 How is it a sound argument that building something that will attract a lot of people a good reason not to build it? Route 16 and Route 1 are gridlocked as it is, not because there's anything there worth the traffic (except the Kowloon) but because of poor infrastructure and design.

#1 why isn't the EPA suing MONSANTO for leaving the entire Chemical cleanup in the first place? Our politicians just let Monstanto contaminate land right near Boston then do nothing about it?

#2 this area does not have the infrastructure to handle a billion dollar entertainment complex. 93 is already a headache, Sullivan Station is a nightmare in this area and it will be very expensive or impossible to map out a better traffic scenario.
(Just picture going to Foxboro for a Monday Night Football game How bad traffic is around 5-7 O'clock during Monday rush hour. That will be the casino outcome. Its LOGIC something our Planners have no idea about.

**This location should be more housing expansion the problem is the CLEAN UP is a massive expense that should have been cleaned up in the first place by pressures from the EPA.

 

[BosDevelop]

(Just picture going to Foxboro for a Monday Night Football game How bad traffic is around 5-7 O'clock during Monday rush hour. That will be the casino outcome. Its LOGIC something our Planners have no idea about.
.

Not it won't. Not even remotely close. The casino fear mongers would like people to believe that thousands of cars will be arriving/leaving the casino at the same time. That is at best dead wrong and at worst, a flat out lie designed to bolster the anti-casino zealots' position. Comparing it to 60,000 football fans all going down the same 2 lane road within a couple hours of each other pre-game and then all at the same time post-game, is pure nonsense.

People arrive and depart casinos at different times. Even assuming the casino has an entertainment venue for concerts/shows that holds thousands of people, not all of those people will arrive and depart at the same time. People will come for dinner pre-show, stay after for gambling/food/drinks etc. And what is the busiest day of the week for all casinos? By far Saturday. As in Saturday when there is no rush hour traffic or really traffic of any kind absent an accident/road closure. But this notion that there will be thousands of cars all trying to get down 93 during rush hour on a Monday night to get to the casino to play $20 hands of blackjack is just absurd. If you think otherwise, I can't help but wonder if you understand how a resort/destination casino operates and/or you are so dead set against casinos that you cannot logically think this through.

 

[Roxxma]

#1 why isn't the EPA suing MONSANTO for leaving the entire Chemical cleanup in the first place? Our politicians just let Monstanto contaminate land right near Boston then do nothing about it?

Because it's easier to go after the current owner. Encumbrances on land follow the land, not the former owner. When one acquires property, one acquires the problems that are attached to the property (liens, 21E (environmental) issues, easements, etc).

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

That Monsato ship sailed decades ago when they got off not having to the heavy lifting cleaning the Gateway Ctr. site. It's crying over spilt milk to fault today's state officials for their predecessors' excessive leniency. It was well known from the first day an Everett casino was a gleam in someone's eye that considerable public funding would be needed for environmental mitigation. That's not even 5-years-ago's news.

 

[TheRifleman]

Not it won't. Not even remotely close. The casino fear mongers would like people to believe that thousands of cars will be arriving/leaving the casino at the same time. That is at best dead wrong and at worst, a flat out lie designed to bolster the anti-casino zealots' position. Comparing it to 60,000 football fans all going down the same 2 lane road within a couple hours of each other pre-game and then all at the same time post-game, is pure nonsense.

People arrive and depart casinos at different times. Even assuming the casino has an entertainment venue for concerts/shows that holds thousands of people, not all of those people will arrive and depart at the same time. People will come for dinner pre-show, stay after for gambling/food/drinks etc. And what is the busiest day of the week for all casinos? By far Saturday. As in Saturday when there is no rush hour traffic or really traffic of any kind absent an accident/road closure. But this notion that there will be thousands of cars all trying to get down 93 during rush hour on a Monday night to get to the casino to play $20 hands of blackjack is just absurd. If you think otherwise, I can't help but wonder if you understand how a resort/destination casino operates and/or you are so dead set against casinos that you cannot logically think this through.

I disagree, I know the area very well and your DEAD wrong. Anybody that has driven in this area would understand plopping a billion dollar entertainment casino will create more headaches than help the average taxpyayer help with a more efficient Transit across the board.

ITS COMPLETELY OUTDATED Infrastructure:
We have Multiple destinations on this location that are either overbuilt or overpopulated.
1. Wellington Circle/Revere Beach Parkway.......
2. Sullivan Square.........Morning & Evening commutes are brutal
3. 99-- NSTAR Power Grid leading into Charlestown
4. 93 North & South (Major issue of slowing the flow of traffic for the entire North Shore/NH coming in and out of Boston) All for WYNN CASINO
5. Alford Street Bridge on 99 which has been underconstruction since 1995

Just look at how the Gateway Ctr roads were engineered. (A complete nightmare)

Forget the Chemical Cleanup its the GRID thats the problem.
The only positive thing the Casino has going for itself is the MBTA orange lines run through the area. (Which is very important.)

F-Line to Dudley please lets here your 2 cents.

 

[BosDevelop]

I disagree, I know the area very well and your DEAD wrong. Anybody that has driven in this area would understand plopping a billion dollar entertainment casino will create more headaches than help the average taxpyayer help with a more efficient Transit across the board.

ITS COMPLETELY OUTDATED Infrastructure:
We have Multiple destinations on this location that are either overbuilt or overpopulated.
1. Wellington Circle/Revere Beach Parkway.......
2. Sullivan Square.........Morning & Evening commutes are brutal
3. 99-- NSTAR Power Grid leading into Charlestown
4. 93 North & South (Major issue of slowing the flow of traffic for the entire North Shore/NH coming in and out of Boston) All for WYNN CASINO
5. Alford Street Bridge on 99 which has been underconstruction since 1995

Just look at how the Gateway Ctr roads were engineered. (A complete nightmare)

Forget the Chemical Cleanup its the GRID thats the problem.
The only positive thing the Casino has going for itself is the MBTA orange lines run through the area. (Which is very important.)

F-Line to Dudley please lets here your 2 cents.

93 is brutal now. Adding a casino in Everett is not going to make the traffic noticeably worse on 93. I know it is like talking to a brick wall with you and I am not sure why I even bother, but why can't you admit that (or at least respond to) my point about casino arrivals/departures being very staggered and that during far and away the busiest day of the week for the casino, there is little other traffic? Once again, how many people do you really think there will be driving down 93 during rush hour during the week so they can play blackjack after they get out of work? Anti-casino folks like to mention the quality (or lack thereof) of the clientele that will frequent these casinos and some even refer to them as degenerates who spend all day gambling. Are these really the kind of people that will be heading down 93 at 5pm to get to the casino after they have worked all day? Ignorance and contradictory at best and an outright fabrication at worst.

 

[BosDevelop]

By the way, it is also hysterically ironic how the anti-casino contingent claim that the casinos won't generate sufficient business (and cite Foxwoods and Mohegan's recently financial struggles as evidence) and then in the very next sentence mention the thousands of cars that will clog the roads each day getting to and from the casino because it will be so popular with residents and tourists alike.

 

[The EGE]

BosDevelop, I suggest you try Connecticut Route 2 or 2A on an event night sometime. The casinos are losing gambling customers, but the events - which produce the nasty bursts of traffic - are still going strong. After a concert or game, most people head straight for their cars - except for the heavy gamblers with comped seats, most people attending events are not gamblers. You might only have 5,000 cars leaving an event - but those 5,000 cars are arriving as one massive pulse that equals or exceeds rush hour volumes for about 20 minutes.

When Mohegan Sun gets out, 2A is a zoo in both directions. The 95 end clears out after a bit, but the end terminating on 12 can back up for half an hour or more. Foxwoods causes the same problems on 2 - that expensive grade-separated bypass doesn't help a bit.

I used to live off Route 12 in Ledyard (one lane in each direction), with egress at an unsignalled intersection. At Mohegan Sun shift changes, or after a concert, it can easily take 5 minutes to turn left.

16/93, 16/28, 16/99, 16/1, 28/93, and Sullivan Square all look a lot to me like the potential to be what 2A/395, 2A/12, 2A/117, 2/117, 2/184, and 2/95 in Connecticut already are.

And this is the same deal as Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods pulled in Connecticut: no offers to build and maintain any real solutions to the traffic. I haven't heard Wynn talking about how he's going to fund improvements to 16, or connect his casino to the planned Chelsea busway, or pay for Eastern Route shuttle service. Back in Connecticut, Ledyard's Public Works gets whalloped with the bills to keep the roads usable - the state funding doesn't come close. Rumor has it that Mohegan Sun turned down the New England Central's overtures of a very fair deal on a rail shuttle to New London; they're just fine with the buses, never mind their safety record.

If Wynn wants to be allowed to build any sort of development, to hell with whether it's a casino, an arena, or the world's grandest petting zoo, he should be ponying up the money to leave traffic and transit better than he found it.

 

[jdrinboston]

BosDevelop, I suggest you try Connecticut Route 2 or 2A on an event night sometime. The casinos are losing gambling customers, but the events - which produce the nasty bursts of traffic - are still going strong. After a concert or game, most people head straight for their cars - except for the heavy gamblers with comped seats, most people attending events are not gamblers. You might only have 5,000 cars leaving an event - but those 5,000 cars are arriving as one massive pulse that equals or exceeds rush hour volumes for about 20 minutes.

When Mohegan Sun gets out, 2A is a zoo in both directions. The 95 end clears out after a bit, but the end terminating on 12 can back up for half an hour or more. Foxwoods causes the same problems on 2 - that expensive grade-separated bypass doesn't help a bit.

I used to live off Route 12 in Ledyard (one lane in each direction), with egress at an unsignalled intersection. At Mohegan Sun shift changes, or after a concert, it can easily take 5 minutes to turn left.

16/93, 16/28, 16/99, 16/1, 28/93, and Sullivan Square all look a lot to me like the potential to be what 2A/395, 2A/12, 2A/117, 2/117, 2/184, and 2/95 in Connecticut already are.

And this is the same deal as Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods pulled in Connecticut: no offers to build and maintain any real solutions to the traffic. I haven't heard Wynn talking about how he's going to fund improvements to 16, or connect his casino to the planned Chelsea busway, or pay for Eastern Route shuttle service. Back in Connecticut, Ledyard's Public Works gets whalloped with the bills to keep the roads usable - the state funding doesn't come close. Rumor has it that Mohegan Sun turned down the New England Central's overtures of a very fair deal on a rail shuttle to New London; they're just fine with the buses, never mind their safety record.

If Wynn wants to be allowed to build any sort of development, to hell with whether it's a casino, an arena, or the world's grandest petting zoo, he should be ponying up the money to leave traffic and transit better than he found it.

The "entertainment" venue for Wynn is only expected to seat about 600.

 

[choo]

I figured I'd post this even though i'm sure Riff will be close behind.

BOSTON —A Revere casino could mean a major traffic headache for some drivers.

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Mohegan Sun is floating a traffic plan that would designate casino-only lanes for the Ted Williams Tunnel.

The tribe's preliminary proposal suggests shutting down an eastbound lane heading into the tunnel to funnel traffic directly to its casino site in Revere.

The state says it will do its own review as it considers the Mohegan casino plan and a similar proposal in neighboring Everett.



Read more: http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/metr.../23844674/-/67hxbp/-/index.html#ixzz2pv8tX6Fy

This will never (should never) happen. But it also doesn't seem to mitigate the problem. I'm not hugely familar with the Eastie streets but wouldn't 1A be more the issue than TWT. Also, if the airport doesn't get a lane, a casino doesn't. I was for Suffolk if it saved the track, and I don't think Mohegan will do it. So Wynn all the way for me- that chemical site isn't getting touched any other way.

 

[TheRifleman]

I never said I was anti-casino for this state just anything outside Boston at this point. If you think a Revere casino traffic will be bad do they realize that a casino in Everett will cause a much more problems than Revere.

Everett will be Armageddon for transit for the surrounding towns on the North Shore especially using 93 to get into BOSTON. 99 has major industries in this area that use this road 24 hours a day, from produce companies, power grids, dumps, Metal yards. It took them 10 years to even repair the road from pot-holes because Everett was suing Masshwy.
There is no easy way around this no matter how much money they dump in transit. The infrastructure and location is just so outdated to handle a billion dollar casino.

Everett Casino location threatens the effect of the flow of transit from all existing towns past or around Everett.

Bottom-line without a proper plan to justify this location for a casino this will benefit nobody but Wynn and his investors. He will make a lot of money and the Taxpayers will be looted with the next big dig scheme.
You should really call your Reps on this bad deal. We should be investing in better infrastructure, better Transit grid instead we have an out of control Pension problem with the MBTA and our money is being looted from ex-Mayor Menino to give these corporations & his favorite developers tax incentives to help so call create jobs. What a crock. Owe, I forgot we are building a new Convention Center in the Seaport on our dime so everybody can jump on the SILVERLINE BUS to make the Meeting.

Grand Visions without a proper plan. For Example: Lets put TARGET down the NorthEnd.

 

[BosDevelop]

The "entertainment" venue for Wynn is only expected to seat about 600.

Not to mention comparing the roads in rural Connecticut to the largest city in New England is not a fair comparison. Especially since any events are likely to end around 10:00-11:00pm when there will be zero other traffic in the area. Surely the roads and highways of Boston can accommodate a few thousand cars (and that is an obscenely over exaggerated number) at 11:00pm at night. Has anyone ever sat in traffic (due to sheer volume) on 93 after leaving a Garden event at 10pm night? Heck, if you know where to park (the Brookline side) you can completely avoid traffic after a Red Sox game and that is close to 40,000 people.

 

[akmags]

I disagree, I know the area very well and your DEAD wrong. Anybody that has driven in this area would understand plopping a billion dollar entertainment casino will create more headaches than help the average taxpyayer help with a more efficient Transit across the board.

ITS COMPLETELY OUTDATED Infrastructure:
We have Multiple destinations on this location that are either overbuilt or overpopulated.
1. Wellington Circle/Revere Beach Parkway.......
2. Sullivan Square.........Morning & Evening commutes are brutal
3. 99-- NSTAR Power Grid leading into Charlestown
4. 93 North & South (Major issue of slowing the flow of traffic for the entire North Shore/NH coming in and out of Boston) All for WYNN CASINO
5. Alford Street Bridge on 99 which has been underconstruction since 1995

Just look at how the Gateway Ctr roads were engineered. (A complete nightmare)

Forget the Chemical Cleanup its the GRID thats the problem.
The only positive thing the Casino has going for itself is the MBTA orange lines run through the area. (Which is very important.)

F-Line to Dudley please lets here your 2 cents.

And to think you're not even including the additional 5000+ units being added to the area via Assmebly Row....

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Not to mention comparing the roads in rural Connecticut to the largest city in New England is not a fair comparison. Especially since any events are likely to end around 10:00-11:00pm when there will be zero other traffic in the area. Surely the roads and highways of Boston can accommodate a few thousand cars (and that is an obscenely over exaggerated number) at 11:00pm at night. Has anyone ever sat in traffic (due to sheer volume) on 93 after leaving a Garden event at 10pm night? Heck, if you know where to park (the Brookline side) you can completely avoid traffic after a Red Sox game and that is close to 40,000 people.

There's also the casino buses that are the terror of Connecticut highways. Drive CT 2 anywhere out of Hartford, or the 4-lane portion of I-95 anywhere from Old Saybrook to West Warwick and you will at least once--if not several times--have to grip the wheel for dear life when one of those kamikaze coaches is riding your ass. Some of them are only a step above Fung Wah in regard for human life. But even on a spread from reputable to sketchy there are so damn many of them that it creates its own form of traffic problems. CT and South County, RI natives are well familiar with that scourge and the daily annoyance it's become. At least the state has improved that whole rural undivided stretch of 2 east of Norwich towards Foxwoods. You used to in the late-90's and early-00's see the buses lining the side of the narrow road for miles on end or in turnouts in the middle of the woods with bus drivers sleeping in them between runs. The less reputable ones just dropped people off at the gate and broke the law parallel parking for hours on end on 2 and some of the side streets.

But they exist because the casinos are out in the middle of the fucking woods. If you don't want to drive or plan to do some drinking while you're out there, it's the only viable way to get to either of them. And until the NECR rail line that runs right behind Mohegan Sun gets a frequent dinky shuttle to New London, there's no regional public transit tie-in. Still none at all for Foxwoods for anyone. Still none for people coming from Hartford down CT 2 because NHHS commuter rail can't ever thru-run onto Shore Line East with the Springfield Line pointing the wrong direction at its merge with the NEC in New Haven. And still none from the RI Purple Line at Westerly without multiple transfers for the same pointing-wrong-direction problem at the NECR/NEC merge...plus the CT state line being beyond the scope of the T's border-crossing agreement with RIDOT.


That is not the case with Everett. The public transit options are very good. 2 Orange Line stops a close walk away, a conga line of local buses, and Gateway Ctr.'s mass expanse of asphalt a footbridge over the tracks away from being able to corral the coaches in a place that can handle it. Here there can be regulations placed limiting the number of private buses slamming the roadways. There can be regulations spreading them out all along the 128 belt to T park-and-rides. There can be quotas on how many are allowed into the facility at any one time, which CT state troopers can't do in the rural expanse of east-central New London County. There can be casino shuttle buses pinging all day to the Orange Line stops, North Station, South Station, etc. to keep them and T buses the only casino-bound vehicles using Alford St. They can build far less parking at the facility to encourage better radial distribution of the park-and-riders. And there's the simple fact...like Fenway and the Sox...that an outright plurality people are going to take public transit by choice.

This is not Foxwoods. This is not even Atlantic City or Vegas. The Everett site happens to within blocks of one of the very densest transit concentrations in New England (and Orange + proximity to North Station is a lot better than Revere/Blue in that regard). The only thing they can't really get is a direct commuter rail stop because the steep grades coming off the Mystic bridge and high platform-prohibiting Everett Terminal freight carry some safety concerns about train braking distance (plus a semi-elevated station would be pure hell to stand at when winter wind whips off the water). I think simple regulation, sensible/not-insane parking capacity befitting the urban environment, and sensible improvements to 16 like completing the 93 interchange and cleaning up Wellington Circle will do the job well enough. And as has been stated, it's a slow-and-steady all-day draw. Not a sporting venue where everything is all-in/all-out in one gridlock-inducing burst (though Fenway and the Garden seem to have managed that pretty well for the last 9 decades). It's a little disingenuous for some of the same people calling for a soccer stadium in Brickbottom not worried about that burst of traffic getting all verklempt about the Everett casino. It's not the same.


Revere...yes, absolutely that one has more vexing concerns about the traffic spiraling out of control. The developers, city of Revere, and state have to explain MUCH more than they have to-date on what kind of traffic throttles they are going to put in there. Boundless capacity increases on 1A won't do it with how choked the North Shore is. Everett...not so much because of the pinned-in parcel and more flush and downtown-centralized transit access. The constraints and what they have to do around them are much more self-evident there.

 

[TheRifleman]

If F-Line for Dudley was in charge of the transit project for the casino I would have more FAITH.

 

[The EGE]

Unless they do some absolutely massive streetscape improvements, getting to any of Sullivan, Wellington, or Assembly is going to be a long and unfriendly walk.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Unless they do some absolutely massive streetscape improvements, getting to any of Sullivan, Wellington, or Assembly is going to be a long and unfriendly walk.

Oh, definitely. Alford needs a lot of cosmetic surgery. But it's still only a half-mile walk to a Sullivan Sq. that's about to be remade. And if that footbridge across to Gateway Ctr. connects to the Mystic path system Wellington's a borderline pretty walk of similar distance. Especially considering the Mystic bridge replacement on 16 is due to get way wider sidewalks.

The transit access is still superb. All the casino has to do is run a nonstop airport-style shuttle van door-to-door alternating between Sullivan and Wellington and it's friggin' effortless to get there. Then maybe an on-the-hour shuttle to NS and SS.


This could even be impetus to do a relatively easy starter stub for eventual Urban Ring LRT and bring the GLX yard leads the remaining 2500 ft. to Sullivan on the freight track side. All that requires is making sure the lead tracks when built are provisioned for repurposing as mainline tracks, and building a small duck-under at the freight wye next to Boston Engine Terminal. The Sullivan stub platform probably wouldn't cost more than $10M to graft on: island platform, 1 elevator/escalator/stair to the overhead walkway connecting all the Orange platforms. Pick another line like the C to peter out here.

Go upstairs, board the casino van, 4 minutes later to the front door. From any destination on Orange or Green-via-downtown. If there needs to be 1 major transit improvement politically roped into this thing, that's an easy and ultra low-hanging fruit one to do when two-thirds of the requisite active ROW gets built this decade for that Innerbelt carhouse.

 

[Shepard]

Once the GL is at Sullivan, would it be that much more expensive to bridge it over the Mystic? That puts it within a literal stone's throw of the new casino, and really sets the stage for an Eastern Branch GL extension to Chelsea. Hell, bring it all the way to Chelsea now. (And, lest I ask for too much, to the airport too!)

Seriously, if that's the kind of transit improvement the Everett casino could engender, then count me in support.