MA Casino Developments

choo said:
I think if Wynn wins, i'll be more likely to vote for the measure. It seems to be very much wanted by Everett and will really be the only thing for 20 years that is done on that site. I think too much is made of the downside, and i think Wynn will very much be going to for the higher end, out of towner than Mohegan.

Suffolk seems so much more controversial and i feel the track will still close if they win, which was the main item in the pro column for me.
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I agree. To me, perhaps the biggest factor is how overwhelmingly supportive the residents of Everett are of the casino, compared to Revere and East Boston (who voted against it, and would again if they could, considering it moved 3 feet away into "Revere only"). This should be the most important consideration, assuming the other factors mentioned above are more or less equal.
 
Additionally, I have heard that the racetrack may dissapear if the casino doesn't get put here. While many might disagree, I actually think this could be a good thing. If the casino and racetrack are both gone from the Suffolk Downs area, this would open up the whole swath to better development potential, which is really not a possibility on the Everett location with the environmental contamination.

As suffolk downs already has good public transportation access, i imagine this would be high value location for potential developers, and another blank canvas where an new neighbor could rise from scratch!
 
If Wynn gets awarded the license he will build his casino in Revere.

Everett Site way too many issues:
Somerville, Boston, possibly Charlestown both will file lawsuits against Wynn and Everett.
#1 Boston will claim sometime of concessions for using there piece of the land
#2 Somerville and Charlestown will be very concerned about Traffic scenario which is a major problem now never mind a billion dollar casino.
#3 How long will the cleanup actually take? Monsanto really screwed this land up

Wynn will build more the upper class but in the end the local degenerates will monopolize the casino in the end from Everett, Chelsea, Revere, Lynn.

On a positive front Everett will finally be put on the map in Massachusetts.
 
Deetroyt said:
Additionally, I have heard that the racetrack may dissapear if the casino doesn't get put here. While many might disagree, I actually think this could be a good thing. If the casino and racetrack are both gone from the Suffolk Downs area, this would open up the whole swath to better development potential, which is really not a possibility on the Everett location with the environmental contamination.

As suffolk downs already has good public transportation access, i imagine this would be high value location for potential developers, and another blank canvas where an new neighbor could rise from scratch!
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The track has also gotten a lot more blighted over time with the owners having little interest in spiffing it up. Which says a lot about their likely intentions to get the hell out no matter what because it'll cost a fortune to get it up to appearances with the casino. Since the ponies and the casino crowds tend not to have a lot of overlap despite both being loosely under the gambling umbrella, it's doubtful the patrons of the track would change from a less...er, "hardcore"...gambling audience to a more diverse crowd (polite way of saying: lot of creepy old men at the track, decidedly more family-friendly faire at a casino). Which means the immediate track area isn't going to get significantly less seedy from the presence of a casino. Just by looking overhead you can see how the track isolates the Beachmont neighborhood from the Orient Heights neighborhood, and Beachmont from the rest of Revere's highest density residential north of 145 and west of 1A.

There's a crying need, casino or no casino, for that track to go for badly-needed mixed residential + commercial. The neighborhoods are too damn isolated from each other, and that's a planning error that's gone too long without correction. For all of the reasons above a casino is probably not the utmost need for that area (though it's better than nothing), and among many of the information gaps that site is lacking but Wynn's isn't is...what's the plan for the track that's still the biggest and most outdated misfit.
 
Not that this is an explicit consideration- and I don't think it should- but someone may have mentioned throughout that Suffolk Downs sure looks like a good spot to build some secure Olympics facilities that could then be integrated with the neighborhood. Heavy Rail and airport to boot.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The track has also gotten a lot more blighted over time with the owners having little interest in spiffing it up. Which says a lot about their likely intentions to get the hell out no matter what because it'll cost a fortune to get it up to appearances with the casino. Since the ponies and the casino crowds tend not to have a lot of overlap despite both being loosely under the gambling umbrella, it's doubtful the patrons of the track would change from a less...er, "hardcore"...gambling audience to a more diverse crowd (polite way of saying: lot of creepy old men at the track, decidedly more family-friendly faire at a casino). Which means the immediate track area isn't going to get significantly less seedy from the presence of a casino. Just by looking overhead you can see how the track isolates the Beachmont neighborhood from the Orient Heights neighborhood, and Beachmont from the rest of Revere's highest density residential north of 145 and west of 1A.

There's a crying need, casino or no casino, for that track to go for badly-needed mixed residential + commercial. The neighborhoods are too damn isolated from each other, and that's a planning error that's gone too long without correction. For all of the reasons above a casino is probably not the utmost need for that area (though it's better than nothing), and among many of the information gaps that site is lacking but Wynn's isn't is...what's the plan for the track that's still the biggest and most outdated misfit.
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I think you are right that they did let the track run down as part of the "poor pitiful us" gambit to DeLeo et al. Note that they have dropped $50 million on development costs to date so they probably could have revitalized the track if they wanted to. It is too bad though, as a quality horse racing facility can be popular and attract a broader crowd than just the degenerates. It is easy to imagine a festival atmosphere and many trendy Bostonians with hats and drinks. By using the facility for additional "horse" stuff they could attract the Charlie Jacobs crowd if it was done right.

While it probably will close down if they lose the bid, I recall that there is a provision in the law to use gambling revenues to support racing purses. The owners could milk that for a while and pocket what they can until it is time to cash out for redevelopment.

Still, if I was in their shoes and I lost to Wynn I might make a run at racing until the Wynn facility is open and complain loudly and widely that the track could probably make it if they would simply amend the law to allow slot machines at Suffolk.
 
CommonWealth expresses skepticism with Wynn's projected out-of-towner numbers.
http://www.commonwealthmagazine.org...-Running-the-casino-numbers.aspx#.VBMBh7ywJGx

I dunno. There would be decidedly more table games--which appeal to high end gamblers--and way fewer slots. Also, working in Harvard Square you see a lot of tourists coming through, particularly a lot of Chinese tourists. The Boston tourism pros have been debating how to keep these folks in town for day 2 and day 3. If they are gamblers, they know Wynn and have never heard of Mohegan.
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/article/2013/03/05/chinese-tourists-boston/

And about this Sullivan Square thing. Kenmore Square and Storrow seem to survive getting 40,000 visitors coming in at peak commuting time 80 days of the year. If engineered properly, why can't Sullivan do the same? It's got more pavement to play with and there's fewer incidents where tens of thousands of people all want to go to the casino at a specific time X.
 
Wouldn't most people be going to the casino at non peak commuting hours anyway, when the roadway network has unused capacity? I know people are worried about traffic, but isn't that always the case?!
 
cden4 said:
Wouldn't most people be going to the casino at non peak commuting hours anyway, when the roadway network has unused capacity? I know people are worried about traffic, but isn't that always the case?!
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Traffic is out of control now. No matter what hour it is.
Driving on Sunday last week on the highway there was traffic because of Road work.

The Boston and the surrounding areas continue to build on top of a outdated infrastructure.

They need a massive overhaul with the MBTA.
Tobin Bridge looks like it might collapse if we have a tremor.
Revere is a fucking nightmare.

On positive note I am glad that the MBTA required a stop for the Assembly Place. A++ Thinking
 
I don't live in Boston but it doesn't appear that traffic is out of control. Its bad but no worse than any other major city that is dense and walkable. I check the traffic reports and google maps every so often out of curiosity and traffic isn't great, but Boston is a major city you can't expect smooth sailing. Nothing can actually fix traffic other than congestion pricing either because induced demand exists unless Boston starts charging for the use of its roadways they will be congested.
 
citylover94 said:
I don't live in Boston but it doesn't appear that traffic is out of control. Its bad but no worse than any other major city that is dense and walkable. I check the traffic reports and google maps every so often out of curiosity and traffic isn't great, but Boston is a major city you can't expect smooth sailing. Nothing can actually fix traffic other than congestion pricing either because induced demand exists unless Boston starts charging for the use of its roadways they will be congested.
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The areas where they want to put a Billion dollar casino. The Traffic is a fucking nightmare.
**"Sullivan Square Area near Everett along with route 99 near the Electric Grid." Could not support a billion dollar casino in this area without a massive upgrade in Transit across the board
**Revere Is worse
 
aaaaaa said:
A decision will likely be made tomorrow. Mohegan upgraded some of their scores today after fulfilling the commission's stipulations, but Wynn still has better over scores. Wynn offered more mitigation money in line with the commission's recommendations, but the panel seems hung up on traffic in Sullivan square. It seems amazing to me that this might come down to traffic rather than all the other relevant factors, mainly potential revenue, number of jobs and their pay, and financial stability of the developer. I guess I should say, although I'm amazed I am not surprised.
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Agree. Surprised by what seemed like arm-twisting during today's deliberations.

Livestream at:
http://massgaming.com/news-events/live-stream-and-video/
 
Arm-twisting is putting it nicely i think.

McHugh and Cameron love to hear themselves talk. Stebbins basically doesn't say anything while Zuniga is the other one with some sense it seems. Cameron has been negative on Wynn since day 1.

At the end of the day, I still don't think they would be dumb enough to give it to Mohegan.
 
Prize quote from the commission hearings yesterday (at least for this board).

I do not know what AIA was thinking in their assessment of the Wynn proposal's architecture design (did they even look at the surroundings?), but Wynn's rebuttal is right on target.

From the Boston Herald:

Wynn’s letter also took a swipe at the commission for critiquing the design of his Everett proposal, which the American Institute of Architects slammed for having “no significant connection to the surroundings” and lacking “a celebratory approach.”

Wynn wrote: “This suggestion adds a note of humor to the moment. Perhaps we should have adopted the shape of a fuel storage tank or a big box retailer, notably the surrounding structures of our neighborhood.”
 
citylover94 said:
I don't live in Boston but it doesn't appear that traffic is out of control. Its bad but no worse than any other major city that is dense and walkable. I check the traffic reports and google maps every so often out of curiosity and traffic isn't great, but Boston is a major city you can't expect smooth sailing. Nothing can actually fix traffic other than congestion pricing either because induced demand exists unless Boston starts charging for the use of its roadways they will be congested.
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With all due respect, you've got to live here to believe the mess we're in, a mess that developed over the last 30 years as the city grew into a so-called world class destination. It takes way too much time to travel as little as 5 miles, hitting multiple stop lights and stop signs, lane changes, twists and turns, snow drifts, blocked travel lanes, one-way streets, and teeth-rattling pavement along the way. Getting from "here to there" in much of greater Boston is as complicated as setting forth a battle plan to conquer an "enemy" (time and a nervous breakdown) and losing much of the time due to the mix of maniacal drivers on cell phones, eating breakfast, or just zoned out in LaLa land, totally oblivious to the act of driving a motor vehicle. And finding short cuts through towns is an invitation to gridlock as every major side road is now clogged beyond capacity through the otherwise quietest back-woods community. And wait until the first snowfall...and add another 50% to your commute time. I'm leaving the state as soon as I sell my home. I've had it with this torture.
 
And finding short cuts through towns is an invitation to gridlock as every major side road is now clogged beyond capacity through the otherwise quietest back-woods community.
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I don't know Malden very well, presuming that's where you still are. But in my part of Boston most of the side streets are pretty damn quiet. And, anecdotally, I was headed out up Brighton Ave yesterday at 5:30pm and found it remarkable enough to note that there were only a few cars headed the same way as me, considering that it's a "major commuting route."

Maybe things are different here.
 
JeffDowntown said:
From the Boston Herald:

Wynn’s letter also took a swipe at the commission for critiquing the design of his Everett proposal, which the American Institute of Architects slammed for having “no significant connection to the surroundings” and lacking “a celebratory approach.”

Wynn wrote: “This suggestion adds a note of humor to the moment. Perhaps we should have adopted the shape of a fuel storage tank or a big box retailer, notably the surrounding structures of our neighborhood.”
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This was the first thought that crossed my mind when I read that AIA assessment last month. Good for Wynn!
 
Matthew - I too live north of Boston - not far from Padre and can attest to what he's saying: the routes north of Boston are nothing like what you experienced on Brighton Ave yesterday.

All the major routes surrounding both of the proposed casinos are brutal during rush hours. Routes 1A, 99, 28, 16, Sullivan Square, Wellington Circle. I'm no traffic engineer, but there is NO excess capacity on these roads during peak times...none, nada, niente...

Whatever Winn and Mohegan are promising for traffic mitigation - I'm not buying it.
 
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