MA Casino Developments

Well, as they say, casinos don't really generate rush hour traffic. Not a 9-5 business, after all.

But really, I still believe the casino should be in the Financial District. We built all this infrastructure to get people there by all modes imaginable. And the district is basically dead space after 6 pm. And gambling has been going on there for centuries...

Building a whole new "casino edge city" is exactly the wrong way to go about it.
 
I think a big reason there is a lot more traffic north (and south) of the city than west is the green line and its ex-streetcar bus feeders. Yes, the green line is terrible. But it's also redundant and omnipresent to the west. You really don't get that north or south, so a lot more people are in cars. Traffic mitigation focused on cars isn't going to do squat, casino or no. You need to extend the blue and orange lines further out, and then build a few light rail lines to feed them.


Padre Mike said:
With all due respect, you've got to live here to believe the mess we're in, a mess that developed over the last 30 years as the city grew into a so-called world class destination. It takes way too much time to travel as little as 5 miles, hitting multiple stop lights and stop signs, lane changes, twists and turns, snow drifts, blocked travel lanes, one-way streets, and teeth-rattling pavement along the way. Getting from "here to there" in much of greater Boston is as complicated as setting forth a battle plan to conquer an "enemy" (time and a nervous breakdown) and losing much of the time due to the mix of maniacal drivers on cell phones, eating breakfast, or just zoned out in LaLa land, totally oblivious to the act of driving a motor vehicle. And finding short cuts through towns is an invitation to gridlock as every major side road is now clogged beyond capacity through the otherwise quietest back-woods community. And wait until the first snowfall...and add another 50% to your commute time. I'm leaving the state as soon as I sell my home. I've had it with this torture.
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With all due respect, go live in the NYC metro area for a few years. I've said it about tolls in the past, but Boston traffic is utopian compared to trying to get in/out/around NYC. You guys have no idea what traffic is.
 
davem said:
I think a big reason there is a lot more traffic north (and south) of the city than west is the green line and its ex-streetcar bus feeders. Yes, the green line is terrible. But it's also redundant and omnipresent to the west. You really don't get that north or south, so a lot more people are in cars. Traffic mitigation focused on cars isn't going to do squat, casino or no. You need to extend the blue and orange lines further out, and then build a few light rail lines to feed them.
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Quite possible. I really think that the Green Line, even with all its faults, has contributed to significantly reduced traffic volume on Comm Ave in Allston at least. It also helps that Comm Ave is basically a local street there, due to design, so traffic on it tends to be locally-originating. And most people don't own cars because of the Green Line. MassDOT traffic data shows declining traffic volumes over the past decade or so, all over Allston, even while the turnpike inches up.

Presumably buses could act in a similar fashion across the southern half of the city, but I don't have data backing me up there. I think Cambridge gains this effect on many streets as well, because they enjoy good bus and subway access.

With all due respect, go live in the NYC metro area for a few years. I've said it about tolls in the past, but Boston traffic is utopian compared to trying to get in/out/around NYC. You guys have no idea what traffic is.
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Haha! Very true. In and around NYC is where I cut my teeth learning to drive (and park).

Boston is a breeze by comparison. And everything is so much closer together. Even if the traffic is terrible and the T is broken, I always have the option of walking.
 
You really don't get that north or south, so a lot more people are in cars. Traffic mitigation focused on cars isn't going to do squat, casino or no. You need to extend the blue and orange lines further out, and then build a few light rail lines to feed them.
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Exactly. Although, I don't know about an extension. One of the major reasons 16 is a mess is because Wellington is a parking lot in the middle of no where. You really have to drive there, so it does next to nothing for traffic mitigation. Fix that, and fix the traffic flow through the intersections and rotaries, and you'd probably get yourself a bigger improvement than any extension would do (although an extension would be great).
 
davem said:
I
With all due respect, go live in the NYC metro area for a few years. I've said it about tolls in the past, but Boston traffic is utopian compared to trying to get in/out/around NYC. You guys have no idea what traffic is.
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We do understand how bad traffic can get and we are trying to be proactive before these shitheads okay another billion dollar project without actually realizing the consequences in why Boston is such a great city.

Traffic is very negative in society.
 
As the crow flies, the casino will be about the same distance from Assembly Square T stop as Thompson Square is from Community College. It would be nice - great, in fact - if a covered pedestrian bridge could span the distance. In fact, I'm surprised that this wasn't proposed as traffic remediation. If tourists are the key demographic it's targeting, then making it T accessible will keep many, many cars and taxis from making the trip through Sullivan.
 
davem said:
With all due respect, go live in the NYC metro area for a few years. I've said it about tolls in the past, but Boston traffic is utopian compared to trying to get in/out/around NYC. You guys have no idea what traffic is.
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And believe me, New Yorkers have no idea what traffic is either haha
 
tmac9wr said:
And believe me, New Yorkers have no idea what traffic is either haha
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Try traffic in Jakarta some time. Typical rush hour commute is 5 hours EACH WAY.

A key feature of executive suburbs (really exurbs) is a heliport for the neighborhood.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Try traffic in Jakarta some time. Typical rush hour commute is 5 hours EACH WAY.

A key feature of executive suburbs (really exurbs) is a heliport for the neighborhood.
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Yea helicopters are the main form of transit for wealthy commuters here as well. There ain't no traffic jam like a developing country traffic jam because a developing country traffic jam don't stop...literally.
 
Is there any real chance of a pedestrian bridge to Assembly or a commuter rail stop for the Wynn Casino? The site appears to directly abut the Newburyport/Rockport line. Is there a reason this isn't feasible?
 
BPLange7 said:
Is there any real chance of a pedestrian bridge to Assembly or a commuter rail stop for the Wynn Casino? The site appears to directly abut the Newburyport/Rockport line. Is there a reason this isn't feasible?
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-- No way to get there from Assembly unless they do an expensive-ass skywalk over the Mystic locks. That's a nonstarter.


-- The commuter bridge looks like it has room for one if the tracks were shifted to the side to eliminate the "shoulders"...but looks can be deceiving. Because the bridge is so steep and carries heavy freight trains to/from Everett Terminal, it is a high-risk area for engine stalls. The train crews need emergency walking space to get out and safely inspect.

If the Urban Ring were built and the Green Line ran over this bridge, with commuter rail/freight being shifted a few feet south onto a new bridge, then you could pack the tracks off to one side and open up a safe fenced-off sidewalk on the existing span.



-- Commuter rail stop is not possible right next to the casino because of:

1) The steep downgrade and regulations for safe braking distance off such a steep hill.
2) The poor sightlines coming off the bridge, which has both a low-visibility 'summit' in the middle AND a curve on the bridge itself. If somebody's wandering in the track area no train has enough time to stop.
3) Until the freights peel off onto the Everett Terminal lead tracks near Route 16 they need wide clearance, which prohibits installation of a full-high platform here. You can only have a low platform + ADA mini-high at that spot. And that's too dangerous because it allows too-easy access for people to wander into the track area or go sightseeing on the bridge. It would never get approved.
4) The first place it is safe to plunk a station past the point where the freights turn out and after the hill levels out is on the curve by Santilli Circle...way too far away to make for a useful casino stop, and way too close to where the relocated Chelsea station is going to go.

There are no ugly hacks you can pull to get around these constraints and get it nearer to the casino. Safety-first, safety always. Any such Crazy Transit Pitch proposal to shiv a station there would get shot down in a nanosecond in the real world.

Plus the ridership's gonna be very low at this stop with the Orange Line and buses offering superior headways every which way. If Wynn runs a pingback private shuttle from some pick-'em of Wellington, Assembly, Sullivan, North Station, or Chelsea @ the proposed Silver Line stop it's going to be one of the most transit-accessible major sites in the entire city. Seriously...surplus-to-requirement doesn't even begin to describe the pointlessness of a door-to-door commuter rail stop when every other mode + shuttle bus gets you there faster.



A ped overpass from Gateway Ctr. to the casino over the tracks is a no-brainer, however. It just can't be a plain reopening of this closed-off grade crossing for safety reasons. But link the sites with a footbridge and the casino (plus all of Broadway) is instantly connected to the entire Mystic path system.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
-- No way to get there from Assembly unless they do an expensive-ass skywalk over the Mystic locks. That's a nonstarter.

A ped overpass from Gateway Ctr. to the casino over the tracks is a no-brainer, however. It just can't be a plain reopening of this closed-off grade crossing for safety reasons. But link the sites with a footbridge and the casino (plus all of Broadway) is instantly connected to the entire Mystic path system.
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Really? You couldn't just build a new span south of the rail bridge and link it in to the trail system? How about a parallel span from the same abutments with switchbacks to get up to it?

I feel like "possible" is too strong here. "Cost-effective", perhaps, or "Politically feasible" given the environmental implications.

In any case, Wynn probably likes the optics of whisking people over from Assembly in boats. :)
 
Equilibria said:
Really? You couldn't just build a new span south of the rail bridge and link it in to the trail system? How about a parallel span from the same abutments with switchbacks to get up to it?

I feel like "possible" is too strong here. "Cost-effective", perhaps, or "Politically feasible" given the environmental implications.

In any case, Wynn probably likes the optics of whisking people over from Assembly in boats. :)
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The only new bridge that'll ever get built across the Mystic is an Urban Ring span. It's just too goddamn difficult to EIS and engineer a brand new major water crossing if it isn't carrying a megaproject over it. That's why it's hardly ever done anymore except when an old one is falling apart and has to get non-optionally 1:1 replaced before it keels over. Not even some sweetening-of-the-pot with Wynn money can trump the difficulty level, and it's not like the around-the-horn pedestrian options are all that bad here. The replacement bridges on 16 over the Orange Line tracks and Mystic will be much more ped-friendly, and a little bit of path infill from Assembly to Alford St. helps that end quite a bit. This doesn't rise anywhere close to the urgency threshold.


I only mentioned the locks overpass because that's an official (albeit not well-studied) proposal in the Mystic revitalization plan (can't find on th' Google, but it was linked to in some thread around here in the last 6 months). I just think that proposal is looney given how high it has to go to clear sailboat masts allowed through the locks, how complicated a set of ramps it'll take on each shore to get that high, and how awkward it'll be to snake around the locks control tower. Don't think they really thought that one through too well.
 
I imagine they could canteliver a pedestrian walkway off one side of the existing rr bridge if there was a will.
 
davem said:
I imagine they could canteliver a pedestrian walkway off one side of the existing rr bridge if there was a will.
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The expense involved for a bridge of that length wouldn't be worth it. It's 100% concrete, so grafting an overhang on is not trivial here vs. a metal girder bridge. Add in the need for an ultra-tall fence--probably security cammed--between the tracks and overhang that is sturdy enough to withstand 50-year wind events way up there in a very windy spot. Then add the need for a shorter wind fence on the water side...bleh.


Again, you have to weigh it against the fact that the pedestrian access across the river bookending Assembly at Wellington/16 and Sullivan/Alford is pretty good already with the planned bridge replacements and other associated improvements on tap in the next 5 years that there just isn't a compelling need to blow an extreme wad of money on an as-the-crow-flies straight crossing. Especially when you consider just how tall those switchback ramps have to be to get from ground level to boat clearance level, and how unforgiving the wind is going to be way up there on the high span in colder weather vs. the squat road bridges. The switchback height adds enough distance in extra footsteps that the total walking distance difference between that and a simple path infill from the south tip of Assembly to Alford bridge is too small to merit any hacks to the rail bridge. Alford presently has not got the greatest sidewalks, but they can augment it just enough to put a low traffic safety barrier between the sidewalk and road a la Mass Ave. It isn't a very long crossing...half the length of Mass Ave. and the Longfellow, two-thirds the length of the high Eastern Route span.


Sullivan<-->casino and Wellington<-->casino are also going to generate much more ped/bike traffic to Everett than Assembly<-->casino given their positions bookending Assembly and trapping traffic on the north and south sides. Plus the transit connections at those 2 Orange stops so overwhelmingly outslug the buses at Assembly. By orders of magnitude more people are going to get there by the 16/Medford paths route and the Charlestown/Alford route than going through the middle. So the need for a straight-line crossing in the middle is not nearly as high as people make it out to be because while Assembly is going to be pretty big it's a single-point ped traffic generator instead of a points-north/south collector like the existing road bridges and their to-be-upgraded ped features. Factor that into the cost and and it washes even less.
 
Everett Wins Casino Award!

A planned casino that will possibly be built in Everett, is a step closer to becoming a reality!!

Wynn Wynn, a hotel - casino company based in Las Vegas, has been awarded the contract to build the hotel & casino.

One more hurdle is on the books that it was overcome. That is voters in the town MUST vote for the project's final approval in November.

The project is slated to be built on an abandoned waterfront in Everett. If all goes well, and voters finally like the idea, then it should finally clear the way for the construction of the new casino to move forward!

Revere had planned to have one built on that side of Suffolk Downs, but the Massachusetts Gaming Commission has given the award to Wynn Wynn for the Everett plans. :cool:
 
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